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Old 2012-03-03, 02:02   Link #101
Yui Is My Wife
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It's been established in Captain America that a great fella though he may be, Steve Rogers is nothing more than a Gold-Medalist Olympic Athelete with zero-body-fat and a photographic memory.

Just like Hawkeye and Black Widow, basically.

How the heck are THEY going to be able to fight Loki's army of godlike horrors and last more than 5-seconds in this de-powered, scaled-down, "realistic" Marvel Universe?
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Old 2012-03-03, 02:19   Link #102
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
It's been established in Captain America that a great fella though he may be, Steve Rogers is nothing more than a Gold-Medalist Olympic Athelete with zero-body-fat and a photographic memory.

Just like Hawkeye and Black Widow, basically.

How the heck are THEY going to be able to fight Loki's army of godlike horrors and last more than 5-seconds in this de-powered, scaled-down, "realistic" Marvel Universe?
Simply; by never underestimating the marvels that the normal human body is capable of.

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Old 2012-03-03, 02:45   Link #103
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
It's been established in Captain America that a great fella though he may be, Steve Rogers is nothing more than a Gold-Medalist Olympic Athelete with zero-body-fat and a photographic memory.

Just like Hawkeye and Black Widow, basically.

How the heck are THEY going to be able to fight Loki's army of godlike horrors and last more than 5-seconds in this de-powered, scaled-down, "realistic" Marvel Universe?
Black Widow and Hawkeye are not hired because they are powerful; they are hired because they are loyal government employees.

As we know, Thor is the most powerful of the Avengers. But why isn't he running it? Because he is a foreigner who, though an ally, doesn't take orders from SHIELD. Much like how Stark and Banner also have their own anti-authoritative issues.

Hawkeye and Black Widow will show up to work every day. That's more useful than having an alcoholic philanthropist or a mentally unstable scientist on your occasional guest list.

As I say, I am not saying Black Widow is weak or anything; I just feel they aren't even trying to give her basic arms.
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Old 2012-03-03, 03:08   Link #104
Yui Is My Wife
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What about Captain Rogers?

On the surface his value to the team would be in terms of publicity, being a symbol of un-cynical and idealistic patriotism and all.

But that shunshine and rainbows view of America died with the Second Gulf-War, didn't it?

If not counting for the fact that he HIMSELF no longer fits in a cold and cynical world that contradicts his basic moral values, how is a Nice Guy like Steve going to be relevant at all, especially as an outdated and irrelevant symbol, to a public and world as a rule hates his country and everything it stands for, the poor fella?
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Old 2012-03-03, 04:10   Link #105
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
It's been established in Captain America that a great fella though he may be, Steve Rogers is nothing more than a Gold-Medalist Olympic Athelete with zero-body-fat and a photographic memory.

Just like Hawkeye and Black Widow, basically.

How the heck are THEY going to be able to fight Loki's army of godlike horrors and last more than 5-seconds in this de-powered, scaled-down, "realistic" Marvel Universe?
Captain America has enhanced physical strength, endurance, agility, etc. He has something that any normal human being couldn't possibly achieve unless they had the help of the serum that Captain attained. Hawkeye and Black Widow are not on the same level as Captain America in terms of what his body can do.

The Captain isn't to the level of Superman obviously, but he's still above Hawkeye and Black Widow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
As we know, Thor is the most powerful of the Avengers.
I disagree. I think it's a tossup between The Hulk and Thor.
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Old 2012-03-03, 04:29   Link #106
Ascaloth
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On another note, I think the main reason I'd be watching The Avengers would probably still be Tony Stark. I mean;

Spoiler for trailer dialogue:


Awesome sauce. XD
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Old 2012-03-03, 04:42   Link #107
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Black Widow might be using a pistol based off the weapons tech Skull had in the Cap' America movie? Although I will admit it does look like an ordinary pistol in the shorts I've seen.

Is there any known reason why Loki is attacking earth? Thor? Shits and Gigs? Red Skull? Tuesday?

Couldn't this battle be bored down to Thor and Loki duking it out again, except on Earth. On their own with no armies and stuff they are both on or near world altering powers aren't they? I remember reading Thor can screw over an entire planet with his ability to alter weather (ie planetary sized storms)
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Old 2012-03-03, 04:48   Link #108
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
Is there any known reason why Loki is attacking earth? Thor? Shits and Gigs? Red Skull? Tuesday?

Couldn't this battle be bored down to Thor and Loki duking it out again, except on Earth. On their own with no armies and stuff they are both on or near world altering powers aren't they? I remember reading Thor can screw over an entire planet with his ability to alter weather (ie planetary sized storms)
The thing with Thor, is that the film version of him has very little business on Earth. Unlike the comic character who had spent a long time as an Earthling, Thor in the film is an alien through and through.

This means the only reason Thor would be in a team-up on Earth, is if he is directly involved with the conflict. In short, without Loki, there would not have been Thor.

Loki has been officially banished since the last film. He was shown to BE on Earth at the end of the Captain America film. So the simple explanation is that he wants to create a kingdom of his own. And if you want a kingdom, you need a planet.
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Old 2012-03-03, 05:20   Link #109
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Black Widow and Hawkeye are not hired because they are powerful; they are hired because they are loyal government employees.
Is that all? Doesn’t the US already have the entire Army, Navy, Air force, FBI, CIA and Police for that? What makes Black Widow and Hawkeye so special? Martial art expert who is fluent in many different languages and a very sharp aim? It’s barely unique. Tight outfit that emphasis the breast and butt, and using bow and arrow instead of fire-arm? It’s unique but hardly useful. So, their inclusion is just plot-driven element imho.
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Old 2012-03-03, 05:53   Link #110
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Is that all? Doesn’t the US already have the entire Army, Navy, Air force, FBI, CIA and Police for that? What makes Black Widow and Hawkeye so special? Martial art expert who is fluent in many different languages and a very sharp aim? It’s barely unique. Tight outfit that emphasis the breast and butt, and using bow and arrow instead of fire-arm? It’s unique but hardly useful. So, their inclusion is just plot-driven element imho.
They are Shield agents. Have you seen that short clip of agent Coulson visiting a gas station? They are the best at what they do without having super powers.

Sure, if they ever die I am sure a replacement could be found within the ranks of existing military members. But the point isn't them being inhuman, but that they are tried and tested agents who are dependable.

Do you want to rely on Tony Stark for anything? Pepper certainly wouldn't. People like Hawkeye and Black Widow are only of moderate ability, but that's sufficient for day to day missions. Contrary to popular belief, Earth is not suppose to be invaded every Tuesday. As the trailer pointed out, Shield wouldn't summon the likes of Stark or Banner until they are truly desperate... So who do they call when they are not desperate? The regular agents.

It is easy to forget that the majority of the time, super villains aren't around. That's how Stark manages to have time to build his Iron Man upgrades.

There is also the added bonus that it throws the military a bone. We know that the regular troops are going to get their asses kicked. But at least Hawkeye and Black Widow made sure that the war wouldn't be won by only the outsiders.

(As for Rogers? I am not sure Shield wanted to send him out to fight. He is a hero, a legend, but in many ways the respect might lead to him being babied.)

EDIT: Look at it another way, Sending Rogers back out into the field is like taking President Lincoln's rifle out of the museum and use it in battle. Sure, they can, but do they want to?
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Old 2012-03-03, 09:15   Link #111
GDB
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
What about Captain Rogers?
I'd say this sums up Steve Rogers quite well:

A voice that could command a god

Spoiler for The Captain:
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Old 2012-03-03, 18:59   Link #112
sunset
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Next to the likes of Thor, Hulk and Ironman, even Cap is severely underpowered.
You must look at it from another angle, these new members contribute with things the others can´t.
They provide know-how on Inteligence gathering, infiltration, wet works, they can see and think things from angles your everyday thunder god/savage monster/cybernetic expert/nuclear physicist wouldn´t even dream of.

You guys are part of an anime crowd, you should be familiar with Major Motoko Kusanagi´s famous line:

"Over-specialise and you breathe in weakness."

Besides, it´s not like they are completely helpless.
Hawkeye is famous in the comic for his multi-purpose arrows that range from explosive to concussion to sonic to etc, etc.
Ideal to lay waste of alien infantry while Thor and Hulk are busy taking out giant flying snakes from outer space, wouldn´t you say?

As for Black Widow, the alledgedly helpless damsel-in-distress who´s "only there for eye candy" ?

Check the scenne where she reloads her handgun again.
Notice how her bracelets briefly flash blue?
That´s a hint to her powerful signature weapon, the Widow´s Bite.




I won´t say it´s anywhere near as powerful as Ironman´s repulsor rays but I am sure it´ll be something to behold.
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Old 2012-03-03, 22:04   Link #113
james0246
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What's with all the anti-Cap crap. Dude can bench press a metric ton, has minor super-speed, agility, healing, etc, and is extremely tactically intelligent and partially immune to physic attacks. Plus, the Shield rocks.

While Tony Stark/Iron Man is the leader of the Avengers, Captain America has always been the heart and soul of the group (this is even true with the Ultimates).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The thing with Thor, is that the film version of him has very little business on Earth. Unlike the comic character who had spent a long time as an Earthling, Thor in the film is an alien through and through.

This means the only reason Thor would be in a team-up on Earth, is if he is directly involved with the conflict. In short, without Loki, there would not have been Thor.

Loki has been officially banished since the last film. He was shown to BE on Earth at the end of the Captain America film. So the simple explanation is that he wants to create a kingdom of his own. And if you want a kingdom, you need a planet.
Thor is back for some hot Natalie Portman boody. Isn't that reason enough?

Joking aside, at the end of Thor, it is revealed that the mysterious tesseract (seen prominently in Captain America) has been found by SHIELD. This tesseract is a tool of Odin (or at least the Asgardians), so it is quite easy to tie Thor's reappearance to the tesseract (and Portman's boody).
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Old 2012-03-03, 22:17   Link #114
GDB
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Joking aside, at the end of Thor, it is revealed that the mysterious tesseract (seen prominently in Captain America) has been found by SHIELD. This tesseract is a tool of Odin (or at least the Asgardians), so it is quite easy to tie Thor's reappearance to the tesseract (and Portman's boody).
And for those that have no idea what a tesseract is but are familiar with Marvel Comics: it's the Cosmic Cube.
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Old 2012-03-03, 22:58   Link #115
Kyero Fox
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It would be awesome if they do a scene where Cpt america picks up thor's hammer to give it to him or something.
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Old 2012-03-04, 00:19   Link #116
Yui Is My Wife
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One issue commoly dealt with in Captain America since the 1980's is Captain Rogers being thoroughly disillusioned with being a symbol of a kind and just country that no longer exists.

I REALLY hope they don't just dodge the issue in the franchise from hereon:

Steve Rogers is a decent and kind-hearted boy who hates bullies, stands up for the innocent and fights for their freedom.

How is he going to feel about serving a country ruled by bullies that imprisons those who spread free information for life yet lets rapists and baby-killers walk off scott-free?



This is no longer the America he laid down his life for.
Stan Lee, the creator of Captain America, does NOT dodge that moral-dilenmma in the comics.

So let's hope Marvel Pictures (now owned by Disney.... shivers) dosen't dodge it either.
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Old 2012-03-04, 02:37   Link #117
sunset
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These ten bucks say that we´ll get to see Cap lift the Myeu-muh!
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Old 2012-03-04, 05:03   Link #118
Mr Hat and Clogs
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They will skip it if the movie gets any sort of support (hardware, personnel, etc) from the military - which is a HUGE cost saver. The Pentagon has exacting standards and requirements for movies they are involved in and if you don't match them they have no qualms leaving you high and dry. One of those standards is portraying the armed forces in a negative light. Another, I'm not sure on the specifics mind you, is having the military play second fiddle to someone (ie why the transformers movies were focused more on the soldiers then then transformers).

If the military isn't involved then they might hint at it, but don't expect much, after all the studio might want to use the services of the military some day.

Also, that picture is depressing. Yay for corporate fear and money controlling everything.


My main fear for the movie is that they go towards more special effects and eye candy rather then an interesting story, you know, all flash and no substance. We've got 4 fundamentally different characters with different motives and personalities. Key point of the movie will be how they get along and interact with each other, just as much as whatever Loki is doing. Hence this scene where it seems they are facing off is good for potential banter and stuff as well as a good action scene.
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Old 2012-03-04, 11:57   Link #119
GDB
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
How is he going to feel about serving a country ruled by bullies that imprisons those who spread free information for life yet lets rapists and baby-killers walk off scott-free?
Last time he stood against the Government, he died (he got better). However, he was proven right in the long-run (by which I mean a comic's long-run, so like 3 real life-years later).
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Old 2012-03-04, 12:09   Link #120
ChainLegacy
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Captain America sometimes gets the Batman treatment and can totally kick the ass of someone you'd think is stronger. Usually it's explained by the fact that he has a really solid fighting style on top of his serum-enhanced abilities.

And personally I take The Hulk over Thor in an all out battle, though that answer can change based on the conditions.
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