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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 14 24.56%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 21.05%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 17.54%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 19.30%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 15.79%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-02, 16:55   Link #61
Blaat
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I have to agree with those who say this series should have been one-cour or, more likely, two one-cour series this might have improved the second cour if not er... well at least we could have told people to skip the second season.
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Old 2011-08-02, 17:16   Link #62
Arabesque
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(Have yet to see the episode)

@Guardian Enzo: I should point out that the lower post traffic isn't really a sign that the show should've been a single cour, since sub forums will always generate lower traffic the longer they are around here, unless they are really, really popular to begin with, where they maintain around the same level of activity to the end.

Anyway being someone who has been enjoying this show from the start (and never quite having a strong negative reaction except at 17th and the 8th episode really, and that changed in retrospect when episode 9 came along) I always thought I saw what the other side who had been disappointed in the show. Be it the expectation that the show would maintain the same level of visual quality (it still looks great, though not at the same level as the first episode, and I haven't heard anything but praise for the visual side anyway) or that the writing would take a better turn (is still can be clever, but I can never call it superb) and really, at this point I can attribute it to people being jaded in how ADD Okada's writing can be.

I was never a fan of Okada (last week TJR nailed exactly what I thought of her), maybe that's why I've been more accepting of how this show had developed writing wise (since I was expecting much worse) and had been more focused on the cast that I liked and other positives of the show to really be annoyed.

Still, I personally still enjoy this show regardless of some of it's shortcomings. It's still visually pleasing, the cast is still fun, some episodes were very great etc.

Which, as long as this show gives me those sort of episodes, I'll be happy with. It's what I've come to expect from this show at this point, and I'm pretty content, since this isn't what I consider a bad show by any stretch, just one that is easily distracted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It just goes back to terrible, terrible pacing.

Try again next time PA works. Even the good episodes like this are marred by poor timing or complete lack of timing. In other words, they have as much clue to doing a story as I have playing Sc2. :/
That's because PA Works has to yet get a good writer on board any of their shows.

Between Jun and Okada, it's like asking for your shows to not really be that great.

But anyway, the studio only has four titles to their name. I'm more than welling to come back to any of their shows again, if only for the production values and directors. Writing in anime isn't all that great generally anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The problem is that... and this is admittedly a bit of an exaggeration... it has an effect on me vaguely similar to Haruhi's Endless Eight. Where either episode is good in a vacuum, but when I look back over the last five or more episodes, I find myself thinking "That's it? That's all the ground we've covered in all this time? That's all the character development we've seen in all that time?"
That's ... a really huge exaggeration IMO. E8 was literally the same episode repeated nearly 8 times, with some changes between each episode. Just because this show didn't cover much ground as it could've in the past 5 episodes, doesn't mean it didn't cover any ground.
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Old 2011-08-02, 17:26   Link #63
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Hmm, I decided to enter my episode ratings into a spreadsheet, and while I will say there's quite a notable episode, the more offensive ones tend to leave a worst impact in the memory. It does seem that for every good episode, a rather annoying thing tends to happen

Spoiler for results:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
(Have yet to see the episode)
That's because PA Works has to yet get a good writer on board any of their shows.

Between Jun and Okada, it's like asking for your shows to not really be that great.

But anyway, the studio only has four titles to their name. I'm more than welling to come back to any of their shows again, if only for the production values and directors. Writing in anime isn't all that great generally anyway.
Well, regardless of what you think of those writers, I'd say that they've done better in other places, and also it's suspicious to have similar issues under different writers.
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Old 2011-08-02, 17:28   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post

I disagree about the vast majority of the eps being good to great though, unless I were to define "good" pretty liberally. Of 18 episodes, I would class 7-8 as mediocre to poor - and that's in a vacuum, not in context. I'm no mathematician but that's nearly half.
In fairness to your point, it doesn't take much for a show of Hanasaku's visual caliber to please me. In other words, Hanasaku is simply so gorgeous at a basic animation/art style level that everything else simply has to be passable for me to call the overall work "good". I'm a bit of an art-nut that way.

If I didn't care quite so much about artstyle/animation quality, my opinion would probably be closer to yours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Between Jun and Okada, it's like asking for your shows to not really be that great.
I guess that, for some of us at least, we hold one or both in high esteem (for Jun, Clannad: After Story did this for me; for Okada, True Tears did), so when coming into a Maeda or Okada-wrote anime, I expect something truly a cut above.

Mind you, my expectations of the two of them may naturally adjust after their most recent PA Works contributions.


Quote:
That's ... a really huge exaggeration IMO.
I cited E8 because its a crystal clear, and just about undeniable, example of what I'm referring to about how an episode can be enjoyable on its own, but where the whole of a long string of episodes is less than the sum of its parts.

Now, a closer comparison to the last few episodes of Hanasaku Iroha would be, imo, the first half of Shana Season 2... but I get the impression that anime fans are more divided on that than on E8, so I went with the 'safer' comparison. The comparison that, I had thought, would be less likely to spur disagreement (i.e. "What do you mean Shana Season 2's First Half wasn't paced well?").


Quote:
E8 was literally the same episode repeated nearly 8 times, with some changes between each episode. Just because this show didn't cover much ground as it could've in the past 5 episodes, doesn't mean it didn't cover any ground.
Fair enough. Does the first half of Shana Season 2 work better as a comparison to the 2nd half of Hanasaku Iroha, in your opinion?
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Old 2011-08-02, 18:17   Link #65
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It's a strange choice to give such a sizable cast such an all-or-nothing character spotlight. Everyone gets an episode or two of laser-focused attention, and then it's over, with some characters even being relegated to whatever-happened-to status.

I think it's telling that Ohana's arcs are the best received. Even with her being the lead, I don't think I'm entirely crazy in suggesting that a lot of that has to do with the fact that you can follow her from week to week. It's difficult to all but introduce a previously ignored character, and give them a satisfying character arc in under 20 minutes.

Now, all that aside, I enjoyed this episode. It doesn't hurt that Nako is adorable, but I think it helps that we've already gotten to know her. There was a lot of inner monologue, but it almost wasn't needed, because we have a vague sense of what's on her mind already. It's those characters who get a recurring focus who end up the most interesting in this show, because you can sort of grok where they're coming from, but you don't know so much that it stops being fun to speculate. I'm thinking mostly of Ohana, Nako, Sui, Minko and maybe Satsuki.
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Old 2011-08-03, 01:10   Link #66
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As DemiSoda started to do, move all the discussion about overall series' impressions in the generic thread. This is episode 18 thread so that is off topic.
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Old 2011-08-03, 14:37   Link #67
blakstealth
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I'm so satisfied by this episode..

Spoiler for squeals:
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Old 2011-08-03, 23:35   Link #68
hoarfrost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Pretty much agreed with this assessment, I wasn't a Nako fan before this episode nor am I one after this episode.

All male characters being losers archtype is really frustrating at the moment, can we get a decent male character in this show? I wonder if Okada got dumped by her boyfriend recently because that would explain a lot.
Regarding this topic, it's pretty standard anime fare. It is especially bad for males who are romantically aggressive, as they are made out to be essentially total clowns; see: the proliferation of the perverted friend archetype and "nanpa" scenes in almost every show where there are both males and females, and in the latest episode of Hanasaku Iroha as well. Does anybody remember Nobuse in Okada's True Tears? Roughly the same thing, albeit slightly more sympathetic and less schadenfreude. But the message is the same: if you are anything but passive you are either a step away from rapist or only suitable for being pitied and laughed at.

Of all the guys who could have approached Nako and her friends because they thought she was attractive, of course they had to be portrayed as total fools. Jiromaru and Enishi, Renji and Beanman have their romantic interests, real and imagined played for jokes. The only ones immune are Kou and Tohru because they are both very passive regarding romance at heart.
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Old 2011-08-04, 01:04   Link #69
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I thought Nako's parents were absolutely adorable. It's a bit weird.
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Old 2011-08-05, 11:33   Link #70
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lol at Nako for leaving the prince drown under the sea....

+1 point for Nako!!
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:21   Link #71
grandchaosSR
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My eyes felt a burning sensation after I saw Ohana's grandma in a skimpy mermaid suit...Its a good thing they covered most of her upper body though...
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:26   Link #72
Peanutbutter
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Just noticed this while rewatching. Nako's mum is voiced by Satomi Arai ala Shirai Kuroko (Index/Railgun).

Now, someone just have to slot in Satou Rina (Misaka Mikoto) and we're done.
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Old 2011-08-08, 06:48   Link #73
SnEptUne
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
Regarding this topic, it's pretty standard anime fare. It is especially bad for males who are romantically aggressive, as they are made out to be essentially total clowns; see: the proliferation of the perverted friend archetype and "nanpa" scenes in almost every show where there are both males and females, and in the latest episode of Hanasaku Iroha as well. Does anybody remember Nobuse in Okada's True Tears? Roughly the same thing, albeit slightly more sympathetic and less schadenfreude. But the message is the same: if you are anything but passive you are either a step away from rapist or only suitable for being pitied and laughed at.

Of all the guys who could have approached Nako and her friends because they thought she was attractive, of course they had to be portrayed as total fools. Jiromaru and Enishi, Renji and Beanman have their romantic interests, real and imagined played for jokes. The only ones immune are Kou and Tohru because they are both very passive regarding romance at heart.
To someone like me, who rarely go out to meet people, I see very different messages than what were discussed in this forum.

For the part where Nako dressed in very short skirt, what I get is that not every girl who exposes themselves like to be looked at. Now then, what I don't get is that the guys fault that they are attracted and stares at the girl, is it the girl's fault for wearing sexy dress? Being a prune myself, I think they are both at fault, for having wrong belief, but their action is not unexpected. But does that mean if we do not know what can be harmful, we do not have to held responsibility? I do not think that's the case, but that's just my own thinking.
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Old 2011-08-08, 06:54   Link #74
deadite
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Anyone notice Nako spot in the OP?
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Old 2011-08-08, 21:40   Link #75
Arabesque
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Being a Nako fan, this episode was honestly all that I could've hoped for her, though it would've worked better out had Nako gotten the same treatment as Minko with getting more developed in the background rather than have it all become a point in the finale stretch of the show, but again, I don't mind it at all.

I liked the way that this episode sort of ties back to how episode 3 was supposedly a Nako episode also, though the connection doesn't surface unless that episode is re-watched.

Nako is clearly a creature of the sea which is why I love her so much which is why she had no problem back then diving from the top of a rock to the sea, and displayed a more initiative taking action that wasn't clear in her personality at first. Heck, even back in episode 14 when she took the chance to go swimming at midnight rather than rest. The sea is her domain, she has full control when she is there.

So naturally, it made sense for her to have dreams of the sea, or make metaphors about her home being her comfort zone by comparing the two, or even trying to break out of her insecurities by swimming to the surface. This is the sort of insight that this show manages to give it's characters that I welcome, and much like Tomoe's episode had done, I find myself more understanding of why Nako was so drawn back all the time from others, since she herself treats everywhere else as uncharted territory where she has no clue where to go or how to really act when she meets anyone there (other than flee)

I'm also sort of glad that the show is making usage of one aspect that I always considered interesting, and that instead of keeping all the ideas and things she couldn't say in her head, she wrote them down, like everyone does in this show. I guess that the point of the episode wasn't so much that Nako shouldn't aspire to change, but that being current her isn't completely bad at all. In fact, her being less outgoing might have helped her along, since she managed to organize and note down her thoughts so that they would be more useful to the guests.

Overall, this episode gets a 10/10 from me. My favorite character got her episode, and it was great.

One thing that this show made me hopeful to see from P.A. Works in the future (other than dumping a certain writer for good) is that they make a film adaption of the Little Mermaid, or make a show set in an underwater world.

It would look fantastic.
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Old 2011-08-08, 21:43   Link #76
blakstealth
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Or just make 1-2 hours of Nako and her everyday life. I'll be fine with that.
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Old 2013-06-10, 12:03   Link #77
Pengu
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Really nice episode. I knew Nako was wonderful before, but she is even better than that it seems. So sweet and so thoughtful. Epic win
Yuina still comes across as a shallow rich daughter more used to go shopping and spending money than doing anything else. Her reactions when Ohana mentions she can't afford things is just selfish and poor.
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