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Old 2004-03-31, 06:38   Link #1
roguenoir
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Ecchi/Fanservice Anime with deep plots

Do they exist or are the two mutually exclusive?

Last edited by xris; 2004-03-31 at 07:27. Reason: Thread moved since it's not clear what it is you want
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Old 2004-03-31, 07:06   Link #2
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Ecchi anime with deep plots?


Love Hina? Chobits?


Ecchi and deep plots indeed....
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Old 2004-03-31, 07:58   Link #3
Sethi
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Sure they exist:

Love Hina
Chobits
Onegai Teacher
Onegai Twins
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Old 2004-03-31, 11:04   Link #4
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roguenoir
Do they exist or are the two mutually exclusive?
Evangelion had fanservice (Misato, Asuka, Rei) and is one of the deepest, most philosophical anime ever. For once, there was a subtext behind all the naked chicks, not just to pull in viewers. (Though this is GAINAX, of course it was about that too to a point).

Come on, Love Hina and Onegai Teacher deep? Chobits maybe, but can someone explain to me how a romantic comedy/drama like Love Hina and Onegai series are "deep". Sure, they get serious at times but that doesn't mean its deep...

If you mean they can have a real story (more so than your average ecchi) and flash anatomy, well sure that's possible...I still have a low opinion of ecchi/fanservice shows.

I've heard Popotan is deep (mainly from Animenation's AskJohn! John), but I'm skeptical. I haven't seen that, can someone explain to me how that one is an above average ecchi show?
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Old 2004-03-31, 11:18   Link #5
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I thought Popotan was rather deep and emotional at times. It was weird because I didnt expect it to be.
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Old 2004-03-31, 13:23   Link #6
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Daphne in the Brilliant Blue has an excessive amount of fanservice, and so far, the characters are somewhat cliche but episode 1 and now, as I hear, episode 10 (the newest one) suggest a deep plot soon in the future. Too bad it's not one of Lunar priorities, but if I ran Lunar I would also put it at the bottom of anime subbing lists as of episode 4 ^^ I hear it gets much, much better, though.
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Old 2004-03-31, 14:37   Link #7
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I thought Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien was pretty deep...
and they have some Ecchi in it
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Old 2004-03-31, 14:55   Link #8
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kimi ga nozomu eien doesn't have ecchi in it. the sex scenes and nudity in that show was mature, but not erotic.
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Old 2004-03-31, 16:11   Link #9
7thMethuselah
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Most ecchi shows are also comedy, very often it is the ecchiness which provides a big part of the humor. This can make it rather difficult to get a truly deep and intriguing story, since the comedy will take away all the tension being build up by the story. I can' t immediatelly think of an ecchi show with a serious story.

Love Hina, Chobits, Daphne i/t BB, Onegai T all are very much directed towards comedy and there is almost never any tension being build up ...

Yumeria is also ecchi (but more by using the suggestion of, rather than actually using pantyshots and stuff), but here we have alot of comedy again.

Other shows mentioned (EVA and KGNE) have some nudity in them but not real ecchi stuff. These shows have a very good and deep story but the nudity or so-called ecchiness can't be called ecchi since it's an integral part of the story.

Another ecchi show which has alot of panty shots and all is Ikkitousen, this one isn't really directed towards comedy at all but more towards action. There is a story present but it ain't explained to good to be truly intriguing.

But there is Ai Yori Aoshi: this one is very ecchi as well and tries to develop an interesting love story between Kaoru and Aoi, it also has alot of comedy in it. But this show has alot of more serious moments in it. There is a nice balance between ecchi - comedy - drama. I think this anime comes the closest to what you search. However don't expect a story which is as good as KGNE or EVA but an romantic based story which has some very nice momets but can be predictable at times ...
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Old 2004-03-31, 16:58   Link #10
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What about Da Capo?

Not really THAT ecchi, yet it's deeply emotional and rarely "funny"
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Old 2004-03-31, 17:04   Link #11
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobu_Maehara
What about Da Capo?

Not really THAT ecchi, yet it's deeply emotional and rarely "funny"
Well you can' t consider Da Capo ecchi at all, the only scenes that come close to it is the episode where the maid gets introduced and the 2- 3 scenes when the nabe cooking chick wears a swimsuit. But this kinda scenes is something you get in just about every anime (Almost every anime title has a hot springs or sea trip episode in it)
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Old 2004-03-31, 17:43   Link #12
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i totally agree with Sethi.To me it's very hard to mix ecchi with a a deep and serious plot but since there are some shows with a funny and deep plot it may be possible to have a deep and eccchi plot.
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Old 2004-03-31, 21:03   Link #13
roguenoir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethi
Sure they exist:

Love Hina
Chobits
Onegai Teacher
Onegai Twins
I've seen Love Hina and Onegai Twins out of these.. while I wouldn't agree that Love Hina is *deep*, it probably one of the deeper fanservice Animes. Same goes with Onegai Twins. Sorry, I was too hasty and not very clear.. when I think of "deep", I think of Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Lain, etc. as well as some not-so-philosophical ones like Last Exile, Full Metal Panic, and Saikano (also ecchi).
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Old 2004-04-01, 13:25   Link #14
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roguenoir
I've seen Love Hina and Onegai Twins out of these.. while I wouldn't agree that Love Hina is *deep*, it probably one of the deeper fanservice Animes. Same goes with Onegai Twins. Sorry, I was too hasty and not very clear.. when I think of "deep", I think of Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Lain, etc. as well as some not-so-philosophical ones like Last Exile, Full Metal Panic, and Saikano (also ecchi).
Excuse me, saikano ecchi????? just where in the entire series is there one ecchi scene??? Sure we get to see some erotic/nude scenes but they are a part of the story just like the nudity in KGNE was. If you consider saikano ecchi well then every anime series is ecchi.
There is a big difference between an ecchi show and a show which has some occasional nudity in it ...
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Old 2004-04-01, 14:45   Link #15
Briareos
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Why not clarify things (LOL not) by replacing the word ecchi with a word more people fully understand, perverse.
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/searc...efine=perverse

The problem is that the definition of perverse=ecchi contains so many other terms that are different for each person. (i.e. immorality / what is right and good / wayward)

It's like trying to define pornography or obscenity: There is no one definition that will please everyone because each person is offended by different degress of behavior, depiction and language. (We can't even agree on what degree of storytelling equates to deep, although we can probably come to agree on certain specific titles.)

I can't recall an anime that was perverse and deep. The only story I can recall that is deep and (occasionally could be called) perverse is the Appleseed manga. (My list of things ecchi that I've seen or read is short.) In a few places we get to see some of the female characters showering and in various states of nudity for no reason that has real relevance in the story. But the main theme of the Appleseed manga rests on questions like, "What is the nature of humanity?" and "Is a degree of utopia possible, even if humans are re-engineered to be nearly perfect?"

Now in my book those nude scenes are not perverse, since I see nothing wrong with a person enjoying a view of a naked or scantily clad female. Person was used intentionally in the previous sentence since I know a few women who are aroused by the female form.

For me the question of this thread should read, "Are there any anime with deep plots that needlessly flaunt sexuality or nudity?" Even that question begs for interpretation. My point is not that the question was vague, or poorly stated, but that there will be a lot of disagreement on what the answers of the question are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
There is a big difference between an ecchi show and a show which has some occasional nudity in it ...
Well said. If nudity was all that mattered, My Neighbor Totoro could be considered ecchi.
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Old 2004-04-01, 16:28   Link #16
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briareos
For me the question of this thread should read, "Are there any anime with deep plots that needlessly flaunt sexuality or nudity?" Even that question begs for interpretation. My point is not that the question was vague, or poorly stated, but that there will be a lot of disagreement on what the answers of the question are.
I think the most generally description/definition for ecchi in anime is more or less the following:

Ecchi anime are anime in which erotic/nude scenes are shown at times or places where they are completely unnecesarry for the story and this in large amounts. Most often this nudity/erotic scenery is used in a comedy sense and not in an arousing sense (which would be hentai)

To clarify :

erotic / nude scenes : obviously just about any panty shot scene is a part of this (if a girl tumbles you can easilly show this without panty showing), also scenes where clothes get ripped off for no apparent reason (Ikkitousen anyone ), anime in which every girl has excessive large breasts AND they get alot of camera attention, girls dressed in very exotic clothing : examples here would be just about any bath scene in Love Hina, Ikkitousen combat scenes, Aoi Yori Aoshi (all women there are "well-shaped" and the carema positions tend to accentify this)

on the other hand Da Capo would not qualify since (as far as I can remember) it has 1 panty shot which is shown in a flash, but this one has a purpose, both Nemu and her brother are crawling in a corridor and this is to help explain why she doesn't wanna crawl back first ... Also anime in which all woman are drawn with large breasts but WITHOUT getting camera attention (in essence it is the drawing style) aren't really ecchi (I realise in this occasion the line between ecchi-non-ecchi is rather thin) : for example : Scrapped Princess: large breasts but no camera attention

unneccesary : I think this is rather obvious, sometimes nudity can be used to explain a certain situation but at other times it's just nudity for the sake of nudity. Basically the question is does the shown nudity/erotic scene add to the story or explain a situation or not ...
The best examples here are KGNE : there are a few nude scenes but they are all part of the story
Spoiler:

Another example is the beforementioned saikano
Spoiler:

Unnecesarry nudity is what we get in ikkitousen, Ai Yori Aoshi (the camera in this series ALWAYS seems to facus on the girls breasts and none of them seem to have a cup smaller than E at least ) and so on ...

large amounts: Since just about every anime series has a bath or seatrip episode this is one where we can expect to see these scenes. While ONE episode can be considered ecchi, if it only happens here or on a few rare occasions in the series that we ge unneeded nudity/erotic scene the series itself isn't ecchi (but then again where exactly do we draw the line)
In this respect Da Capo ain't ecchi it has a few bath scenes and skimpy bikini's but only a couple of times, while love Hina for example has nothing but bath scenes

comedy sense: Almost always the shown nudity/erotic scene wants to create a funny situation (seeing as 90% of them are followed by insane huge nosebleeds), personally i think the moment the situation tries to get you aroused we can talk about having a hentai show.

Enough of my rants, please feel free to comment on my definition of ecchi. I think under the applied definition we can say

Ecchi : Love Hina, Ikkitousen, Chobits, Aoi Yori Aoshi, Daphne in the Brilliant Blue, Yumeria (mostly erotic scenes and very suggestive scenes rather than actual nudity), Onegai Twins
Not Ecchi : KGNE, Da Capo, Saikano, Evangelion
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Old 2004-04-01, 17:08   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
Ecchi anime are anime in which erotic/nude scenes are shown at times or places where they are completely unnecesarry for the story and this in large amounts. Most often this nudity/erotic scenery is used in a comedy sense and not in an arousing sense (which would be hentai)

Ecchi : Love Hina, Ikkitousen, Chobits, Aoi Yori Aoshi, Daphne in the Brilliant Blue, Yumeria (mostly erotic scenes and very suggestive scenes rather than actual nudity), Onegai Twins
Not Ecchi : KGNE, Da Capo, Saikano, Evangelion
Great post, 7thMethuselah - I agree with your analysis. As I had pointed out to me in other thread, though, some parts of KGNE were definitely gratuitous ecchi (most of the scenes at the restaurant with Ayu, for example). But, about the scenes you mentioned specifically, though, I agree completely. I don't think of KGNE as an ecchi anime.

This is a bit of an aside, if there was one thing that bugged me about Ai Yori Aoshi it was that the ecchi seemed to get in the way of the plot. It was as if the two didn't blend properly (I really liked the main romance, and wished that they would have focused more on that). Love Hina suffered a bit in the same way, but I never found it as serious to begin with so it didn't bother me as much. In Yumeria, on the other hand, I thought they blended ecchi and plot very well - the show could be serious and ecchi at the same time and go between the two without either seeming out of place. For the most part, I thought that Onegai Twins did a fairly good job of this blending also, mostly because the situations were well setup and well-played (and sometimes very surprising, like Karen and Maiku's scene in episode 3).
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Old 2004-04-01, 17:33   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
This is a bit of an aside, if there was one thing that bugged me about Ai Yori Aoshi it was that the ecchi seemed to get in the way of the plot. It was as if the two didn't blend properly (I really liked the main romance, and wished that they would have focused more on that). Love Hina suffered a bit in the same way, but I never found it as serious to begin with so it didn't bother me as much.
Yeah i agree on the Aoi Yori Aoshi part: the combination between serious romance and ecchi comedy seemd a bit forced. Sometimes I found it even shocking to see scenes where Kaoru and Aoi are finally growing closer abruply disrupted by Tina storming in and grabbing some random boobs , however there were many occasions as well where the serious parts really where nicely done. however AYA was always either ecchi in an epi or serious, a good combination was rare.

About Love Hina : The entire anime was so weird (the weirdest things taking place (Su being one of the most chaotic characters ever ) besides the ecchi and the actual story) that nothing really disrupted the flow of it. this was the one thing I loved about it, an cery funny , very chaotic ecchi anime.
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Old 2004-04-01, 18:45   Link #19
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Now I know you said Ecchi, and I know I will probably get flamed for this, but there is one anime I can think of that is both renowned for a deep plot and sex... but it is hentai, not ecchi:
Urotsukidoji.
(Just the first OVA, the others are crap). People have extremely varying opinions about it, but there are those who think it is a classic of horror and fantasy.

I'm thinking you are looking more towards the "cute" side of ecchi, though...

(Note: I realize that ecchi is simply the japanese word for "H", which stands for hentai, but the connotation is different in english).
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Old 2004-04-04, 01:47   Link #20
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I'm almost done watching Onegai Teacher and (so far) that seems like the best example of what I'm looking for..
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