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Old 2011-08-03, 14:41   Link #81
Kallen4life
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I think you're talking about overall power and ability in battle - ofc Nagato is stronger .. I'm just saying that Rinnegan allows Nagato to master jutsu, whereas Kabuto learned all himself - his INT score sorta speak should be very high, esp with Orochimaru-doping


but it's just thinking out loud, why Kabugato seems stronger then Nagato .. likely it's just effects of full control


maybe we will get Nagato vs Itachi (something I've wanted for a long time, but now I'm afraid Itachi'll die and he just got back lol ^^)
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Old 2011-08-03, 14:54   Link #82
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This is actually pretty sweet- Itachi frees himself of the b.s. and goes on a "save Konoha" rampage. Wouldn't it be great if we could get Itachi + Naruto vrs Sasuke-no-emo?

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Old 2011-08-03, 15:13   Link #83
Akashin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
I think you're talking about overall power and ability in battle - ofc Nagato is stronger .. I'm just saying that Rinnegan allows Nagato to master jutsu, whereas Kabuto learned all himself - his INT score sorta speak should be very high, esp with Orochimaru-doping


but it's just thinking out loud, why Kabugato seems stronger then Nagato .. likely it's just effects of full control
Does the Rinnegan help Nagato master jutsu? I know it gives him access to every element, but I didn't think it also granted him an ability similar to the Sharingan for mastering them. Unless you're talking about his Rinnegan-based abilities, in which case, yeah, there was a definite advantage.

As far as intelligence goes, though, Kabuto is definitely up there.
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Old 2011-08-03, 15:14   Link #84
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Morally and ethically, Itachi was not a good guy. But he was a product of the ninja system. He was at least more of a realist then Naruto. Naruto thinks happy talk can still bring Sasuke back while Itachi was just going to bleep his mind over. No different than what Madara wants to do to the world.

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This is actually pretty sweet- Itachi frees himself of the b.s. and goes on a "save Konoha" rampage. Wouldn't it be great if we could get Itachi + Naruto vrs Sasuke-no-emo?

Naruto has to fight Sasuke alone. Itachi is done with Sasuke and is leaving everything to Naruto. He has been converted.

It's guaranteed Itachi is going to go nuts trying to stop Nagato. If he loses Naruto, then he loses Sasuke. So him "dying" against Nagato fulfills his wish since it protects Naruto. Who can then save Sasuke.

This whole war is a bunch of stitched together moments and fanservice. Kishimoto is just checking down the list.
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Old 2011-08-03, 15:15   Link #85
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We feared that the power of Itachi and Nagato will be downplayed too much, but what is happening is exactly the opposite, for the first time in this manga they used their full power, we have never seen Nagato and Itachi having a serious fight with anyone, either they owned their opponent in a few seconds (for example Itachi beating Orochi and Deidara effortlessly without even using MS) or they restrained their power for some reason (Nagato trying to not kill Naruto, and also being half disabled during the fight).

Kishimoto has introduced an artifical limitation again, it's becoming kinda lame how obvious is that he introduces such limitation only to be broken by the hero at the begining of a chapter which comes after a chapter that ended in a cliffhanger where the hero was about to be killed. The last time he didn't even give an explanation of how can Naruto overcome the limitation of not being able to use kage bunshin while in kyuubi-mode. Why did he introduce the limitation if he never used it in the plot? Or maybe it will be revealed later...

However this limitation and Nagato being given eyes by Madara can have a connection, if Madara gave some sharingan eye to Nagato so that it becomes a rinnegan, and if the sharingan eye stored in Naruto comes in interaction with Naruto's Uzumaki blood/chakra/whatever, then that can be the key to break the 10 years limit. It could even display some ultimate rinnegan powers if it evolves in Naruto as i assume it did in Nagato.

Now it seems that the eye can't convert Sasuke, however it still is a sharingan/MS eye that can help Naruto to get out of Tsukiyomi or other genjutsu cast by Sasuke. This makes the most sense, because obviously Sasuke's conversion cannot come forcibly, his redemption must come by him willingly giving up his current thinking and helping Naruto against Madara and Kabuto. But since Madara or Kabuto may be too much for Naruto, Shisui's ultimate jutsu might come in the game after Sasuke already switched sides, that is in the end game.

Now it's becomeing clear that Itachi's little talk about how to obtain the MS was bullshit, he probably lied to Sasuke in order to make him do the opposite, that is not killing his best friend
We now have Kakashi (=Obito), Shisui and Itachi who obtained the MS in an unknown way. I never expected that Shisui really suicided.


BTW people who keep complaining that Kabuto's Edo Tensei is a lame way to recycle already used characters should stop now: the Itachi-Nagato duo is beyond epic, if they were fighting as a real duo not controlled by anyone they would beat anyone we can think of, even when used as puppets they are epic
This Uzumaki-Uchiha duo is quite epic, but we have seen Uzumaki-Uchiha being cool against Zabuza, and i'm sure against Madara we will see even more

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2011-08-03 at 15:50.
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Old 2011-08-03, 15:17   Link #86
Kallen4life
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what if Kabugato pulls out Naruto's soul, but Itachi brings it back somehow ? with his Totsuka sword from Susanoo ? dunno

maybe he seals Nagato with it and Naruto's soul returns automatically



edit : good points about how they got their MSes .. it's prly just a traumatic experience - death of a close friend/family etc. (Sasuke got his that way) .. Shisui died = MS for Itachi .. how Shisui got his - dunno, maybe his gf died lol ^^

Obito & Rin for Kakashi .. maybe even trauma of failing and losing Sasuke (ugh)




btw Shisui's MS is kinda like instant-Inception, no ? ^^
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:34   Link #87
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shisui's eyes are pretty beastly. im a bit confused though. so how did shisui die? if itachi's order was to eliminate the uchiha clan, itachi had to kill shisui as well didnt he ? and how did someone as useless as danzou manage to take one of his eyes?
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:39   Link #88
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Originally Posted by AnbuItachi View Post
shisui's eyes are pretty beastly. im a bit confused though. so how did shisui die? if itachi's order was to eliminate the uchiha clan, itachi had to kill shisui as well didnt he ? and how did someone as useless as danzou manage to take one of his eyes?
shisui asked itachi to kill him and take his eye and protect it.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:58   Link #89
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Hmm.. I'm predicting a quick backstab from Kabuto on Madara. It's clear Kabuto entered the war to gain dna samples, gain Sasuke, and now it looks like he wants the 8 and 9 tails to stop Madara's plan. There's no way his Zetsu army can defeat the Shinobi Army especially with Naruto, he's solely after capturing Naruto and Bee which Kabuto now has his chance at, and his six paths could all be controlled by Kabuto, possibly.

He's only got the other tailed beasts and Sasuke as an advantage. Kabuto told him how to end the iwr technique, but, unless I missed something, he easily could be lying.

Also, pretty sure the genjutsu Danzo used is different than his MS genjutsu. Manipulating someone w/o them realizing only to snap out of it shortly after is a lot different than implanting someone with a whole new thought on life for good (presumably). Saying the first hokage's cells sped up the regeneration time to one day is ridiculous. The cells didn't even come close to expanding his izanagi time to anything close to that of an Uchiha.

Awesome chapter though.
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:19   Link #90
haegar
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Not sure where you were during all of the battles involving Pein, but yeah, Human Path does exactly that.
Ah, sry, dunno maybe Katsyu burried me under her snail slime so I couldn't see? I am aware of human path abilites. The issue is while Pain used it in Konoha, Naruto didn't give him a chance to use it on him "back then" ... that was Sage mode.

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I am extremely hesitant to put Kabuto above Nagato in terms of skill
...and since I am too I asked how come that slitherin Kabuto can instantly do to Kyubyu mode Naruto what Nagato didn't even try to acomplish on Sage mode Naruto. Oh and thx for the kind reply
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:28   Link #91
Akashin
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Ah, sry, dunno maybe Katsyu burried me under her snail slime so I couldn't see? I am aware of human path abilites. The issue is while Pain used it in Konoha, Naruto didn't give him a chance to use it on him "back then" ... that was Sage mode.

...and since I am too I asked how come that slitherin Kabuto can instantly do to Kyubyu mode Naruto what Nagato didn't even try to acomplish on Sage mode Naruto. Oh and thx for the kind reply
Ah, gotcha. I thought you were asking why he could, as though Human Path sucking his soul out was some impossible thing. That said, I wouldn't necessarily say that it was something Nagato didn't try out of an inability to do so; remember that he was trying to capture Naruto rather than kill him, and sucking his soul out would be rather detrimental to that idea. If he really wanted to I suppose he could have gotten Naruto's soul out (before that path got shredded by the Rasenshuriken, anyway...).

Of course, that begs the question of why Kabuto is doing that now, if they still need the Kyubi. Eh.
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:32   Link #92
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I can only pray that Itachi can stay alive for a bit longer...how cool will it be to see Itachi kick bad guy's ass?? (Itachi should be the one to finish Kabuto once and for all)

The only down side is that, if Itachi can stay alive, Kakashi will be further downgraded..but who cares!!
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:41   Link #93
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The only down side is that, if Itachi can stay alive, Kakashi will be further downgraded..but who cares!!
Or maybe, Itachi could teach Kakashi some interesting trick with the MS.
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:45   Link #94
haegar
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That said, I wouldn't necessarily say that it was something Nagato didn't try out of an inability to do so; remember that he was trying to capture Naruto rather than kill him, and sucking his soul out would be rather detrimental to that idea. If he really wanted to I suppose he could have gotten Naruto's soul out (before that path got shredded by the Rasenshuriken, anyway...).

Of course, that begs the question of why Kabuto is doing that now, if they still need the Kyubi. Eh.
mh true. Ero senn1n pointed that out too. With the badass pain fight I tend to forget he actually just wanted to capture him ... as for Kabuto. Well he doesn't need Naruto the way Madara does so he might have no problem with that. But would sucking Naruto's soul gain him anything? In the Konoha fight human pain was used to gather intel from the ripped souls, and also as particularly gruesome technique to instill fear ... neoither seem to be much good for Kabuto - unless he hopes to gain info on Sage mode Chakra Mode etc via Narutos soul? (goal: master all jutsu) ...
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Last edited by haegar; 2011-08-04 at 08:52.
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Old 2011-08-03, 20:49   Link #95
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that would be cool, but in terms of MS, I think Kakashi is very close to his limit already..what kakashi needs imo is to master his own family technique (if any)

Kakashi is quickly becoming picolo of DBZ....his role is just to come out first and find out how strong the bad guy really is...
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:05   Link #96
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mh true. Ero senn1n pointed that out too. With the badass pain fight I tend to forget he actually just wanted to capture him ... as for Kabuto. We he doesn't need Naruto the way Madara does so he might have no problem with that. But would sucking Naruto's soul gain him anything? In the Konoha fight human pain was used to gather intel from the ripped souls, and also as particularly gruesome technique to instill fear ... neoither seem to be much good for Kabuto - unless he hopes to gain info on Sage mode Chakra Mode etc via Narutos soul? (goal: master all jutsu) ...
I totally forgot that was Pein's goal until Ero Senn1n reminded me, too.

Anyway, yeah, who knows what Kabuto's plan is. For that matter, who knows what would happen if Naruto did lose his soul; would the Kyubi be stuck in his soulless body, or would the lack of a soul offer it the opportunity to escape?
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:15   Link #97
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I totally forgot that was Pein's goal until Ero Senn1n reminded me, too.

Anyway, yeah, who knows what Kabuto's plan is. For that matter, who knows what would happen if Naruto did lose his soul; would the Kyubi be stuck in his soulless body, or would the lack of a soul offer it the opportunity to escape?
Either this or he might be trying to take the Kyuubi's soul out of Naruto.
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:16   Link #98
haegar
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Either this or he might be trying to take the Kyuubi's soul out of Naruto.
he ought to choke on that one though
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:49   Link #99
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Either this or he might be trying to take the Kyuubi's soul out of Naruto.
Does the Kyubi even have a soul? I don't really remember where the line between canon and fanon as it pertains to the Kyubi sits, but isn't the Kyubi described as nothing more than a mass of Chakra? In which case, I find it unlikely that it would have a soul to be taken out.
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:51   Link #100
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Badass chapter. I don't understand why itachi can't keep his mangekyo... He should either have it or have no eyeballs at all.

Nagato is rezzing himself too? Is this quickly turning into dragonball or what? Because Nagato could now Rez all sorts of people 10 tails jinchuriki = eternal dragon.

The details on Shisui were much needed. I had figured that Madara was using Shisui's eye to control Sasuke. But now it explains where the other eye went (one to danzo one in naruto's crow) and leaves Madara still a mystery.
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