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Old 2014-01-02, 19:43   Link #301
maximilianjenus
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Wrong. At best you're being extremely misleading, at worst he stated the opposite. Quote:



He did not say they were in love with each other. He stated they had a powerful friendship which resembled love without a sexual element. Keyword here 'resembles'.

Also, 'romantic friendships' are a thing.
I remember that question but the translation seems a bit different from what i remmeber reading, but yeah this time i am referring to this same interview.
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Old 2014-01-03, 00:35   Link #302
AuraTwilight
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Homura is in love with Madoka. The way the first couple timelines of Episode 10 played out is clear-cut infatuation. This is as clear a case of one person becoming infatuated with another as you're going to find.
Infatuation isn't love. Hell, there's cases of infatuation in real life that have no romantic element.

Quote:
And the fact that Homura kept it up for as long as she did means it's gone beyond infatuation. Infatuation alone doesn't create the incredible sense of commitment that Homura feels for Madoka. No, this is clearly romantic love.
It's certainly love. Is it Eroes? I doubt it. It's most likely to be Philia or Storge.

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Now, as for Madoka... The big question with her is if she's a lesbian or not. If she is, I have no doubt she'd reciprocate if Homura confessed to her (and Madoka is still single). Personally, I'm inclined to think that Madoka is a lesbian, but I'll admit it's not as definitive as Homura being lesbian.
Madoka's sexual or romantic feelings aside, she doesn't reciprocate in full until she ascends and remembers everything. And then calls Homura her best friend.

If Homura did romantically love her, then she just got Friend Zoned by God.
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Old 2014-01-03, 06:53   Link #303
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You guys do realize "Battle Pentagram" isn't canon, right? Besides it has pandering for all the pairings you could imagine, so there's something for everyone.


EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoriu View Post
Minor nitpick: a bit odd that Homura and Sayaka are on first name basis. I haven't played the game. Maybe there are developments within the game that justify this?
The game's plot is based on a "what if" scenario. "What if Madoka in timeline 3 didn't ask Homura to save her from QB, but instead asked her to save everyone and fight WN as a team." If I remember correctly, that's the premise of this game. Of course, even taking this into account, there are a lot of things that don't make sense, but really this game is just an excuse for pandering.
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Old 2014-01-03, 07:16   Link #304
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Infatuation isn't love. Hell, there's cases of infatuation in real life that have no romantic element.
Infatuation isn't love, but if love arises later, it makes it much more likely that the love is of a romantic/sexual sort.

Infatuation is an extravagant passion/attraction. It is almost always used in the sense of "a crush".


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It's certainly love. Is it Eroes? I doubt it. It's most likely to be Philia or Storge.
Philia love (or "Brotherly/Friendship" love) is a type of love that I would not expect to build up in the course of two people knowing each other for just a few weeks. At least not to the extent that Homura displays love for Madoka. If this was brotherly/friendship love, then it's such a love at its very highest level, and sorry, but I just don't buy it - Not for someone that Homura has only known for a month or so (when she makes a wish clearly tied to a deep passion for this other person).

Storge love is Familial love. Homura and Madoka are not relatives. They're not in the same family.

With Philia seeming highly doubtful, and Storge simply not fitting the facts, we're left with Eroes.


Quote:
Madoka's sexual or romantic feelings aside, she doesn't reciprocate in full until she ascends and remembers everything. And then calls Homura her best friend.
At that point, expressing romantic feelings to Homura could cause more harm than good. Madoka is clearly no longer in a position to act on them. So making them known to Homura would be an epic tease.

I could see Madoka thinking that "Friendzoning" Homura here would actually be the kinder approach to take.

Also, Madoka might not be able to tell that Homura's love for her is Eroes. Like yourself, Madoka may view Homura's actions as signs of Philia love, so saying "You're my best friend" is the best response possible to that.
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Old 2014-01-03, 09:50   Link #305
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You guys do realize "Battle Pentagram" isn't canon, right? Besides it has pandering for all the pairings you could imagine, so there's something for everyone.

The game's plot is based on a "what if" scenario. "What if Madoka in timeline 3 didn't ask Homura to save her from QB, but instead asked her to save everyone and fight WN as a team." If I remember correctly, that's the premise of this game. Of course, even taking this into account, there are a lot of things that don't make sense, but really this game is just an excuse for pandering.
Don't really care if it is canon or what. I want dialogue that is sweet and adorable
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Old 2014-01-03, 16:01   Link #306
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Infatuation isn't love, but if love arises later, it makes it much more likely that the love is of a romantic/sexual sort.

Infatuation is an extravagant passion/attraction. It is almost always used in the sense of "a crush".
Infatuation can literally evolve out of nearly any obsessive feeling. While Eroes is the most common, it also arises out of people we idolize, such as people you want to emulate or otherwise hold to a high standard.

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Philia love (or "Brotherly/Friendship" love) is a type of love that I would not expect to build up in the course of two people knowing each other for just a few weeks. At least not to the extent that Homura displays love for Madoka. If this was brotherly/friendship love, then it's such a love at its very highest level, and sorry, but I just don't buy it - Not for someone that Homura has only known for a month or so (when she makes a wish clearly tied to a deep passion for this other person).

Storge love is Familial love. Homura and Madoka are not relatives. They're not in the same family.

With Philia seeming highly doubtful, and Storge simply not fitting the facts, we're left with Eroes.
Storge can evolve in relationships that aren't literally familial. The Nakama/True Companions trope is literally all about that.

Philia is just as valid as Eros in this context; love makes people irrational and passionate regardless of type. There are other cases of fiction where someone timeloops for ~100 years or whatever to save someone dear to them with no romantic element of any kind.

Off the top of my head, Steins;Gate.

Rebellion also makes Agape a possibility, even if a bit twisted.

Quote:
At that point, expressing romantic feelings to Homura could cause more harm than good. Madoka is clearly no longer in a position to act on them. So making them known to Homura would be an epic tease.

I could see Madoka thinking that "Friendzoning" Homura here would actually be the kinder approach to take.

Also, Madoka might not be able to tell that Homura's love for her is Eroes. Like yourself, Madoka may view Homura's actions as signs of Philia love, so saying "You're my best friend" is the best response possible to that.
So Madoka is either stupid or emotionally manipulative. Okay. :P

Look, if we can't treat Madoka as being honest and sincere in her last conversation with like...ANYBODY pre-Rebellion, then we basically can't trust anything ever. That scene was supposed to be when Madoka and Homura finally reach an understanding. I'm going to flat-out reject anything or anyone insinuating otherwise.
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Old 2014-01-03, 16:56   Link #307
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
So Madoka is either stupid or emotionally manipulative. Okay. :P
So it would be stupid for Madoka to mistake Homura's love as Philia Love when it's really Eroes Love? I don't see why that would be the case. I mean, are you stupid?

I disagree with you on this, but I don't think you're stupid because of it. You and I just differ on how quickly strong Philia love can develop and/or how strong Philia love can get. To be fair, I could see a relatively "pure soul" like Madoka thinking that Philia can get very strong indeed. Madoka's own Philia love for Sayaka was rather strong, given how Madoka repeatedly wept for Sayaka and tried to save her in Episodes 7 and 8. But in Madoka's own mind, this was probably friendship love.
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Old 2014-01-03, 17:23   Link #308
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So Madoka is either stupid or emotionally manipulative. Okay. :P
Or she's a normal 13 year old girl who hasn't really gotten to the point of having those feelings, and as such cannot truly comprehend them.
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Old 2014-01-03, 22:36   Link #309
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So it would be stupid for Madoka to mistake Homura's love as Philia Love when it's really Eroes Love? I don't see why that would be the case. I mean, are you stupid?
I'm not a deity with a transcendent viewpoint on reality that requires me to have seen everything a specific person has ever done for me, specifically, ever, in all universes. :P
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Old 2014-01-08, 11:57   Link #310
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You guys do realize "Battle Pentagram" isn't canon, right? Besides it has pandering for all the pairings you could imagine, so there's something for everyone.


EDIT:



The game's plot is based on a "what if" scenario. "What if Madoka in timeline 3 didn't ask Homura to save her from QB, but instead asked her to save everyone and fight WN as a team." If I remember correctly, that's the premise of this game. Of course, even taking this into account, there are a lot of things that don't make sense, but really this game is just an excuse for pandering.
At the very least, it dismisses the Homura is Walpurgis theory that's been floating around.
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Old 2014-01-08, 16:59   Link #311
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At the very least, it dismisses the Homura is Walpurgis theory that's been floating around.
Not really. If proponents don't mind having Walpurgisnacht be Homura's witch even in a timeline where she didn't contract at all, then she's a Devil's Proof. Timey Wimey Ball is kind of a bitch.
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Old 2014-01-09, 00:13   Link #312
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Old 2014-01-11, 18:07   Link #313
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Not really. If proponents don't mind having Walpurgisnacht be Homura's witch even in a timeline where she didn't contract at all, then she's a Devil's Proof. Timey Wimey Ball is kind of a bitch.
That's not what I meant. I was referring to the scene where Homura does become a Witch, and it's not Walpurgis.

It's also an issue that people are associating Walpurgis Night with Time despite it displaying no powers of the type, but I won't delve too deeply about it here.
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Old 2014-01-12, 06:17   Link #314
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That's not what I meant. I was referring to the scene where Homura does become a Witch, and it's not Walpurgis.
Walpurgis started off as a normal witch that absorbed others into itself, and 'Walpurgisnacht' isn't its actual witch name. We only have ???? to work with.

Quote:
It's also an issue that people are associating Walpurgis Night with Time despite it displaying no powers of the type, but I won't delve too deeply about it here.
Aaand it's shaped like both a gear AND like one half of an hourglass, the other being Kriemheld Gretchen, and Production Notes describes it as turning the whole world into a stage of tragedy where fate cannot change and it is "The Night of Walpurgis, tomorrow and every night thereafter."

It's not a theory I personally truck with either but it's not like it's a stretch.
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Old 2014-01-13, 10:18   Link #315
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it also helps explain why homura can't never beat walpurgi nacht by herself, by implying that WN is homura +something so homura will always be weaker than WN.
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Old 2014-01-14, 16:25   Link #316
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Well, the sheer amount of power it has keeps anyone from soloing it at all, besides Madoka.
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Old 2014-01-20, 14:42   Link #317
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Walpurgis started off as a normal witch that absorbed others into itself, and 'Walpurgisnacht' isn't its actual witch name. We only have ???? to work with.
Whether Homura was the "the first" out of an amalgamation is irrelevant. The name/title/whatever of "the Night of Walpurgis" refers to the Walpurgisnacht in Faust's story, where it's literally a celebration/party/rave of witches and other evil beings.

No matter who started it, the idea is still that it is a collection of Witches, not a traditional Witch that can be identified from a single magical girl.
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Old 2014-01-20, 15:11   Link #318
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I wasn't contesting that. But whoever the first witch would've been surely would have a relevant impact; especially if it were a named character through timey-wimey ball.
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