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Old 2011-09-07, 19:47   Link #421
ChainLegacy
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Blatant efforts to ignore Ron Paul abound. What else is new. Why don't they just give Perry his own talk show, wouldn't be much different.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:02   Link #422
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetra Vaal View Post
Gingrich just slaughtered the debate.
Whatever one thinks of his *ethics* (i.e. apparently has none) - intellectually he just runs circles around the "media darlings of the moment".
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:06   Link #423
Tetra Vaal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Whatever one thinks of his *ethics* (i.e. apparently has none) - intellectually he just runs circles around the "media darlings of the moment".
He's my top choice for the Republican nomination. Unfortunately, the media will just spin his marriage and his lack of funds will probably do him in. I'd love to see him in a debate with Obama, though-- Obama would get slayed.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:14   Link #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetra Vaal View Post
He's my top choice for the Republican nomination. Unfortunately, the media will just spin his marriage and his lack of funds will probably do him in. I'd love to see him in a debate with Obama, though-- Obama would get slayed.
what spin? the facts are ugly enough that the media just needs to report it as it is, no need for spin.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:23   Link #425
DonQuigleone
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Anyone care to post a link?

As for Gingrich, from the last debate he certainly seemed a lot smarter then most of his rivals. I'm not sure if I'd want to see him as president though...
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:23   Link #426
Tetra Vaal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
what spin? the facts are ugly enough that the media just needs to report it as it is, no need for spin.
How old is she again, 45? I don't see a problem with that. I don't remember any Liberal media outlets pressing Clinton about his affair with Monica Lewinsky. Honestly, Gingrich's marital situation is the least of my concerns. He gets after it and his policies are fundamentally sound and perfectly appropriate considering the current economic state of America. The funny thing is, I don't have a political bias one way or another-- I tend to look at every party objectively, which is why I don't consider myself neither Republican or Democrat. I was open to Obama's policies and gave him a fair shot, but he's got to go. With the exception of Ron Paul, I think I'd take any of these candidates over Obama-- however, I do think Gingrich is the best one out of all of em'.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:38   Link #427
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetra Vaal View Post
He's my top choice for the Republican nomination. Unfortunately, the media will just spin his marriage and his lack of funds will probably do him in. I'd love to see him in a debate with Obama, though-- Obama would get slayed.
Let's be fair, it'll be the lack of funds that really kills Newt, not his humorous marriage life (not coincidentally both problems stem entirely from Newt).

That being said, all Newt does in any of these debates is try to appear to be the adult in a room with children (and its quite sad how often his schtick works).

I like Huntsman, but I seriously doubt he will ever be the candidate. I do hope he will last long enough to be the Vice-Presidential candidate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Anyone care to post a link?
...
I'm on my phone right now, but after the debate I'll find and post the video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Blatant efforts to ignore Ron Paul abound. What else is new. Why don't they just give Perry his own talk show, wouldn't be much different.
Honestly Cain was the one really shafted in this debate. He answered all of 2 or 3 questions in the entire debate. Thankfully Huntsman was given good exposure .

Last edited by james0246; 2011-09-07 at 20:49.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:47   Link #428
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetra Vaal View Post
How old is she again, 45? I don't see a problem with that. I don't remember any Liberal media outlets pressing Clinton about his affair with Monica Lewinsky. Honestly, Gingrich's marital situation is the least of my concerns. He gets after it and his policies are fundamentally sound and perfectly appropriate considering the current economic state of America. The funny thing is, I don't have a political bias one way or another-- I tend to look at every party objectively, which is why I don't consider myself neither Republican or Democrat. I was open to Obama's policies and gave him a fair shot, but he's got to go. With the exception of Ron Paul, I think I'd take any of these candidates over Obama-- however, I do think Gingrich is the best one out of all of em'.
Seriously, please take a closer look at Bachmann and Perry in a critical light .... they'd be *far* worse than Obama for many reasons but their Dominionist backgrounds and stunning levels of ignorance stand out as an obstacle to solving the problems a 2012 President will be faced with.
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Old 2011-09-07, 20:48   Link #429
ChainLegacy
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Theme for the night: bash Obama (particularly Obamacare) and mention Reagan constantly.
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Old 2011-09-07, 21:04   Link #430
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Theme for the night: bash Obama (particularly Obamacare) and mention Reagan constantly.
Yet, the Affordable Health Care Act let people keep their children on their insurance til age 26 (when they often can't get their own). It stopped insurance companies from dropping patients for sneezing. And after intensive lobbying by the insurance industry - cemented their place in the healthcare system by requiring everyone to buy insurance like auto insurance (at least til the court processes started) -- how is that not corporate-loving? (in other words, yes, the law sucks somewhat but really - the pressures that made it what it was did not come from Obama).

And... i'm afraid Reagan would look askance at their antics and they would find Reagan's policies "too liberal" if they actually knew any history.
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Old 2011-09-07, 23:12   Link #431
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Follow the links to see the other parts of the Debate...I think. I'll look for a better source in the meantime...
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Old 2011-09-08, 07:03   Link #432
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Yet, the Affordable Health Care Act let people keep their children on their insurance til age 26 (when they often can't get their own). It stopped insurance companies from dropping patients for sneezing. And after intensive lobbying by the insurance industry - cemented their place in the healthcare system by requiring everyone to buy insurance like auto insurance (at least til the court processes started) -- how is that not corporate-loving? (in other words, yes, the law sucks somewhat but really - the pressures that made it what it was did not come from Obama).

And... i'm afraid Reagan would look askance at their antics and they would find Reagan's policies "too liberal" if they actually knew any history.
I'm sure most of these candidates could care less about Reagan. They just happen to be aware of much of America's irrational obsession with him (even though, historically... pretty shitty president and his administration played a large part in setting up our current woes).

This has since been fixed but this poll is certainly telling of MSNBC's agenda:

Spoiler for Wow...:

Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2011-09-08 at 08:45.
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Old 2011-09-08, 09:02   Link #433
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Governor Perry comes out swinging at debate

Quote:
(Reuters) - Texas Governor Rick Perry came out swinging in his national debut on Wednesday, all but calling President Barack Obama a liar, describing Social Security as a fraud and attacking his main Republican rival in the presidential race.

Perry, a conservative Tea Party favorite and the Republican front-runner, traded barbs with closest competitor Mitt Romney over who has created more jobs.

Their testy exchange in Perry's first presidential debate was proof that the fight to determine the 2012 Republican challenger to Democrat Obama is becoming a two-man contest.

The Republicans battled with each other to promote their records on jobs, a day before Obama makes a crucial speech to Congress on his plan to bring down the 9.1 percent jobless rate.

Perry, who entered the race only a month ago and has leapfrogged over Romney in Republican polls, was full of confidence but may be forced to defend some blunt comments.

Using harsh language, he said Obama is an "abject liar" if he believes the U.S. border with Mexico is stronger.

And Perry declared Social Security a "Ponzi scheme," the kind of comment that Democrats can seize on as proof that the Texas governor would try to dismantle the popular government-run retirement program.

"Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right," said Perry.

It was up to former Massachusetts Governor Romney to defend the popular entitlement program for seniors and allow him to appeal to independent voters who may well decide the 2012 election.

"You can't say that to tens of millions of Americans who live on Social Security and those who have lived on it," Romney said.

The Perry-Romney fireworks largely overshadowed the six other candidates in the debate, reducing almost to spectators Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, seen as the third-placed contender, and the gaggle of other longshot candidates.

TWO-MAN RACE

The debate at the Ronald Reagan presidential library, a shrine to the Republican president, was the first in a series in the next six weeks likely to help define the Republican race with early voting states to begin choosing early next year.

"Basically this is another affirmation that the race has become a two-man contest," said Matthew Dowd, a former campaign strategist for President George W. Bush. "Perry met the threshold and Romney stays in."

Of Bachmann, Dowd said: "she disappeared off the podium."

The event, sponsored by NBC News and Politico, was only minutes old when Perry charged Romney with having one of the worst records creating jobs in Massachusetts in history.

This was an attempt to undermine Romney's argument that he can rebuild the U.S. economy better than the struggling Obama. The president is to unveil a jobs plan on Thursday to try to bring down America's chronically high unemployment rate, the main issue in the 2012 campaign.

"As a matter of fact, we created more jobs in the last three months in Texas than he created in four years in Massachusetts," Perry said, fending off a question over whether many of those Texas jobs are low wage.

"Wait a second," Romney interjected when the moderator sought to ask another question. Romney said Perry benefited from vast reserves of oil in a state that has no income tax, unlike Massachusetts.

"Governor Perry doesn't believe that he created those things," Romney said. "If he tried to say those things, it would be like Al Gore saying he invented the Internet. The reality is there are differences between states. I came into a state that was in real trouble... I'm proud of what we were able to do in a tough situation."

Democrat Gore was famously forced to defend himself during the 2000 presidential campaign for saying he helped create the Internet.

Perry fired back, comparing Romney to Democrat Michael Dukakis, the former governor of Massachusetts who lost the presidential campaign in 1988 to Republican George H.W. Bush.

"Michael Dukakis created jobs three times faster than you did, Mitt," Perry said.

The exchange showed Perry capable of defending himself among rivals trying to knock him off his perch.

"I kind of feel like the pinata here," Perry said when Bachmann challenged him.

Obama may well have been the pinata as well as the candidates repeatedly questioned his economic policies.

In praising Obama for the successful mission in which al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was killed, Perry hit Obama over high government spending, and Romney declared Obama in over his head on the economy.

"We have a crisis in confidence in part because we have an absence of leadership," said Romney.

Romney shied away from aligning himself directly as a member of the Tea Party, the conservative movement that has been a driving force in Republican politics over the past year. This further reflected an attempt not to alienate independent voters.

"If the Tea Party is for keeping government small and spending down and helping us create jobs then, hey, I'm for the Tea Party," he said.
That is a pretty huge act in the Colosseum. When will he start throwing a basket of fish and bread to the crowd and claim he can feed the entire world with that?
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Old 2011-09-08, 09:14   Link #434
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And... i'm afraid Reagan would look askance at their antics and they would find Reagan's policies "too liberal" if they actually knew any history.
Even questioning the reality of the undead savior of the party who must be worshiped at every opportunity is considered heresy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
This has since been fixed but this poll is certainly telling of MSNBC's agenda:

Spoiler for Wow...:
Based on the other bars, that really looks more like bad programming/css issues than an agenda.
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Old 2011-09-08, 11:49   Link #435
Vexx
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At first I thought it was just funny, but on reflection Mr. Perry's "Galileo" remark was one of the scarier quotes of the night... he utterly mischaracterized the facts when spinning himself as some 'lone truthsayer on climate science'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I'm sure most of these candidates could care less about Reagan. They just happen to be aware of much of America's irrational obsession with him (even though, historically... pretty shitty president and his administration played a large part in setting up our current woes).
I'm not really defending Reagan so much as saying how far redshifted the party has become since Reagan. What was historically the fringe and what was tightly shrouded (the angry plutocracy) has become center-stage.
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Last edited by james0246; 2011-09-08 at 11:59. Reason: double post...
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Old 2011-09-08, 12:07   Link #436
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Remember that Reagan use to be president of the Screen Actors Guild....a union, and thus was a Democrat until he became a Republican after the 1950s.
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Old 2011-09-08, 12:08   Link #437
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Is Perry really planning to run against social security, should he win the nomination? Can that work during a disastrous job market, even in America?
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Old 2011-09-08, 12:08   Link #438
Sugetsu
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If Reagan was on that debate he would be considered a lefty and would have had no chance of winning it.
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Old 2011-09-08, 12:11   Link #439
Ithekro
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But as a professional actor, Reagan could talk his way into people's hearts and mnds, and sidestep everything. (He did run in 1968 and 1976 before winning in 1980). California has....interesting memories of Governer Reagan.
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Old 2011-09-08, 12:15   Link #440
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
At first I thought it was just funny, but on reflection Mr. Perry's "Galileo" remark was one of the scarier quotes of the night... he utterly mischaracterized the facts when spinning himself as some 'lone truthsayer on climate science'.
I was initially amused by the idiocy statement, but after the debate a chill ran down my spine once I really considered what Perry was saying/trying to say. With his casual disregard for the potential deaths of innocent convicts, his firm anti-social security commitment, and his extreme stance against Science/Education, Perry came across as a very scary man...that extreme conservatives will love .
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