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Old 2011-08-12, 22:19   Link #41
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
To believe that the Tea Party and the Republican Party is the party of the rich, is ignoring the tens of millions of middle class and families who side with them(at least more so than the Democrats) and is just plain ignorant. It is the same stupid argument as those on the right who say that he Democratic Party is the Party of the welfare group. Neither is true.
In truth, all parties are the parties of the corporatist robber barons. The only reason I bother supporting the Democrats is because, while they're still corporate shills, they do it in a way that's less likely to negatively affect my life.

So yeah. Lesser of two evils.
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Old 2011-08-12, 22:32   Link #42
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
i have been very consistent on my beliefs. Just because you can point out a few names or instances, does not make my points less valid. With all the negative things you can bring up about the Gop, I can do the exact same on the Democrats. Hypocrites are hypocrites regardless of what party they claim to belong to.

Why dont you tell me what the Democrats do, that Republican voters would agree on, vs the Republica. platform?

For the last time. Why I have voted Republican in the past, is either because I believed in what they said and did, or it was to keep the democrat who i viewed as a worst option, out of office. Lesser of two evils if you will. I will not.vote for a Democrat. They do not want the same America that I want. We are polar opposites.

Vexx: perhaps you missed one of my earlier posts. I stated that at this point, I will not be voting for any of the Republicans who were in the debate last night. I also will not vote for Rick perry. My dad met him years ago in Dallas and said he was a cocky little man, and not the kind of person we need in the White House. Of course he also said Obama was a cold sort of guy who looked down on people when my dad met him as a senator years ago. The vast majority of these politicians.arent.worth a crap.
I think we're getting off track. My point was just apathy is bad, and that I happen to find one party the lesser of two evils. I'm not so foolish to think I can automatically change your mind about things.

synaesthetic pretty much sums up my point.
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Old 2011-08-12, 22:39   Link #43
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
I think we're getting off track. My point was just apathy is bad, and that I happen to find one party the lesser of two evils. I'm not so foolish to think I can automatically change your mind about things.

synaesthetic pretty much sums up my point.
I don't see how gay people not being treated like subhumans is an "evil." Until I get a good answer for that I'm going to assume justin is a gigantic tool who gets his jollies off on making other people miserable.

Well, at least he fits in with the rest of the teabaggers! Bet he thought it was pretty funny when they pelted that crippled Parkinson's patient with spare change!
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Old 2011-08-12, 22:43   Link #44
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Unf. I have to vote democrat, not because I particularly like democrats, as I think they're mostly a bunch of take-my-tax-dollars-and-hand-it-to-the-poor-schmucks-who-are-poor-because-they-make-garbage-financial-decisions (in fact our POTUS is a freaking former community organizer from Chicago...LOL), but because the alternative is a bunch of loony theocratic corporate shills.

Now if Ron Paul wins the republican nomination (read: FAT CHANCE) then I'll actually have a choice, ditto if Colin Powell actually ran. But at the moment, it's Ron Paul surrounded by a bunch of crazy imbeciles. The conservatives of yesteryear with their fiscal hawking and stay out of everyone's way are far different than today's omniscient-morality-license-and-give-megacorps-free-reign-over-the-U.S.-and-the-rest-of-the-world-so-long-as-they (the corporate politicos)-get-their-rewards-eventually.

I mean put it this way:

Dr. James Simons, the founder and chairman of Math for America (and the stupidly hilariously successful Medallion hedge fund within Renaissance Technologies which pumps out 40% returns net of fees every year with mathematical computer models) goes straight ticket democrat, as do people like Eric Schmidt.

If there were a good, smart, reputable republican running for the office of POTUS such as Colin Powell, Ron Paul, or Michael Bloomberg, they'd most certainly have my vote at this point.

But at this point, it seems that it's going to be Barack Obama vs. some crazy right-wing loony.

And in this case, I simply have to vote not to put the better candidate in office, but to keep the loony from bowing to his or her (yikes!) corporate masters and throwing what's left of our country off a cliff.
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Old 2011-08-12, 22:49   Link #45
Xagzan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I don't see how gay people not being treated like subhumans is an "evil." Until I get a good answer for that I'm going to assume justin is a gigantic tool who gets his jollies off on making other people miserable.

Well, at least he fits in with the rest of the teabaggers! Bet he thought it was pretty funny when they pelted that crippled Parkinson's patient with spare change!
No, I'm pretty sure I share your views there, but I just meant to say that that is a different topic from what I was initially getting at. I've gone of plenty of rants about how the Repub/teahatter position on social issues is morally depraved at worst, and terribly ignorant at best, but that wasn't what I was intending to do here. Why I'm against the GOP, in my earlier comments this takes second string to my point about apathy, and that those who actually do share my views on this side of the aisle shouldn't sit around disillusioned and doing nothing, or things really will get worse.
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Old 2011-08-12, 22:51   Link #46
Asuras
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This will be the first election I vote in.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:10   Link #47
synaesthetic
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While there are a lot of people who do try to game the system, I think it's better to let a few thousand welfare cows sit and watch TV and get fat than to doom many more thousand good, productive people who fell through the cracks and couldn't climb out on their own.

As someone else said in another thread, you can't just do nothing with poor people. You can either help them stop being poor, which is what most developed nations do, or you can kill them. You can't just tell them, "sorry, we can't help you, you have to help yourself."

Because they will.

To your stuff.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:11   Link #48
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I think it's better in principle to just, you know, not vote at all if there's no one in the running you actually want to vote. I did that in our last election here.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:13   Link #49
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
This will be the first election I vote in.
Congratulations. Voting is an fundamental importance to everything in society (whether you are an American or not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
Multiple polls show Fox News viewers are the most consistently misinformed. Plus, the culture of today's GOP seems to be convincing people that what's good for corporations is good for everybody (see Mitt Romney's recent "corporations are people my friend"), which is just factually a load of horsecrap.
I'm going to gently remind the posters that Fox News is not the point of this thread. Fox News is an inherently and intrinsically biased media organization. Their very mission statement is to report Conservative news. That is not surprising nor relevant. MSNBC and CNNs biases are also not surprising nor relevant. Even PBS is, even if only a little. The biases of the news and their viewers is irrelevant to the discussion of the candidates, their positions and policies (if any), and the overall election. This is not an Election Coverage discussion (and I at least wouldn't allow such a thread to be created).

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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
Let me tell you where we'd be without all those social policies you claim to hate. The 1950, 1900s, or the 1890s. There.
To be fair, the 1950s saw the integration of the school systems and the 1890s and 1900s saw Teddy Roosevelt (and others) starting the Progressive Movement.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:13   Link #50
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I think it's better in principle to just, you know, not vote at all if there's no one in the running you actually want to vote. I did that in our last election here.
I agree with this, even though people often will chastise you with the tired old line, "you don't vote, you can't complain who gets elected."

Sadly, my vote has no effect on who gets elected. As Itherko already mentioned, I live in CA. CA's electoral vote is for the Dems regardless, even if I want to vote for a Green or Independent.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:23   Link #51
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I don't complain at all. In fact, I blame everyone else because they're the ones who voted them into office. Much better than complaining IMO.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:26   Link #52
Xagzan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Congratulations. Voting is an fundamental importance to everything in society (whether you are an American or not).



I'm going to gently remind the posters that Fox News is not the point of this thread. Fox News is an inherently and intrinsically biased media organization. Their very mission statement is to report Conservative news. That is not surprising nor relevant. MSNBC and CNNs biases are also not surprising nor relevant. Even PBS is, even if only a little. The biases of the news and their viewers is irrelevant to the discussion of the candidates, their positions and policies (if any), and the overall election. This is not an Election Coverage discussion (and I at least wouldn't allow such a thread to be created).



To be fair, the 1950s saw the integration of the school systems and the 1890s and 1900s saw Teddy Roosevelt (and others) starting the Progressive Movement.
Yes, that is exactly why I used those dates as just some social issues people take for granted today.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:28   Link #53
Asuras
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I don't complain at all. In fact, I blame everyone else because they're the ones who voted them into office. Much better than complaining IMO.
So you honestly didn't care which candidate got the job?
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:36   Link #54
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NO NO NOOOOOO!!!! I VOTED LAST ELECTION!!! ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!

(will be surprised if the president is voted out)
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:38   Link #55
MeoTwister5
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So you honestly didn't care which candidate got the job?
It's hard to care when you don't exactly think that any of them or really up for the job. Suffrage is pointless if you vote out of a sense of habit than a sense of responsibility. I would care, of course, when I think the one who would clearly be a better choice loses.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:44   Link #56
Asuras
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It's hard to care when you don't exactly think that any of them or really up for the job. Suffrage is pointless if you vote out of a sense of habit than a sense of responsibility. I would care, of course, when I think the one who would clearly be a better choice loses.
I always see a better choice in two competing individuals, and thus, I feel a responsibility to make sure my decision is given a better chance at getting into office.

Then again, my vote doesn't mean much anyways.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:47   Link #57
MeoTwister5
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
I always see a better choice in two competing individuals, and thus, I feel a responsibility to make sure my decision is given a better chance at getting into office.

Then again, my vote doesn't mean much anyways.
At the same time, even if one is clearly better than the other, if neither of them are still fit for duty in my eyes then I prefer to vote for neither. I prefer to give my vote, even if it's practically symbolic than effective at this point, to someone I think actually deserves it.
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Old 2011-08-12, 23:57   Link #58
Asuras
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
At the same time, even if one is clearly better than the other, if neither of them are still fit for duty in my eyes then I prefer to vote for neither. I prefer to give my vote, even if it's practically symbolic than effective at this point, to someone I think actually deserves it.
I can't really agree, because I'd rather ensure the better man (or woman) be put into office than hold my vote and potentially let the worse candidate take it.

I can see where you're coming from, though.
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Old 2011-08-13, 00:29   Link #59
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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The thing with not voting is that it isn't a protest. If you don't vote, you don't exist.

Politicians don't care if you don't vote. A protest only matters if you are noticed. So vote minority, of someone you actually support no matter how unlikely. You don't vote just to win.

If anything, all those arguments about Swing Voters are exactly that; people who don't care about either side but vote anyway. If being a Swing voter is so damn important that news media have to dedicate airtime to it every election, you can't say your vote won't count.
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Old 2011-08-13, 00:32   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That doesn't change what I said, which is that the type of leader you get in a Democracy is determined by what kind of people elected him/her.

And since most of America don't actually vote, they deserve what's coming by not choosing.
I think it also depends on what kind of candidates come up. Chicken-and-egg case?
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