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Old 2011-08-17, 12:28   Link #41
Lendial
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itachi makes everyone look like such an amatuer- he seems to have retained the artifacts too.
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Old 2011-08-17, 13:35   Link #42
Ero-Senn1n
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Kishimoto answered so many fanboy wishes in this chapter that this is clearly one of the most epic pure fighting chapters

1st fanboy wish: i want to see a full powered Nagato which is a true descendant of the sage of 6 paths
Kishimoto: Nagato is be so badass that Naruto tells us in this chapter that Nagato is much stronger and faster than Pain was. It is logical, since Nagato was radio-controlling Pain, so part of his power was lost because of that, as we have seen for Chibaku Tensei he had to move Pain a lot closer to his real body, which means distance is important, and here with zero distance Nagato is at full power for the first time in this manga.

2nd fanboy wish: i want to see Itachi fighting at full power
Kishimoto: lets make some concentrated MS spam here, using even new jutsu, using the crow, using the legendary totsuka sword.

3rd fanboy wish: i want to see an Itachi vs Nagato fight, that would be epic.
Kishimoto: even better, let them be able to regenerate so they can take more hits of each other's deadly jutsu. let's have a healthy Itachi who can use susano without coughing up blood and dying

4th fanboy wish: i want to see Itachi teaching Naruto about being a better ninja and joining teams with Naruto.
Kishimoto: there's no fighting scene in this manga where Itachi is not badass, we see again that Itachi is a one-hit-K.O. king. His one hit wins include: Deidara and Orochimaru with genjutsu, Orochimaru and Nagato with Susano+sword.

This chapter was even better than the previous one

I don't understand all the whining about Naruto being stupid in this chapter, he was never supposed to be too smart, and Kishimoto never forgot to show us that Naruto will never fundamentally change, he is becoming more mature and more expierenced, but he is still the good old Naruto that we know from the 1st chapter. There was always his allies and friends help him out when his brain fails, it is in his character to become friends so easily and to gain people's faith so that they even risk their life for him. This time it's Bee and Itachi who help him. This is one of the main themes in this manga and in many others, it's obvious that Naruto can't beat Madara alone, Madara is smarter and stronger and more experienced, Naruto will need the help of his friends, and among them his most important help will be Sasuke (who knows, maybe even Kabuto will help him in the end).
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Old 2011-08-17, 13:53   Link #43
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I just wish some pages were larger or something, it's hard to tell wtf is going on in fighting scenes sometimes.
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Old 2011-08-17, 14:34   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Kishimoto answered so many fanboy wishes in this chapter that this is clearly one of the most epic pure fighting chapters

1st fanboy wish: i want to see a full powered Nagato which is a true descendant of the sage of 6 paths
Kishimoto: Nagato is be so badass that Naruto tells us in this chapter that Nagato is much stronger and faster than Pain was. It is logical, since Nagato was radio-controlling Pain, so part of his power was lost because of that, as we have seen for Chibaku Tensei he had to move Pain a lot closer to his real body, which means distance is important, and here with zero distance Nagato is at full power for the first time in this manga.

2nd fanboy wish: i want to see Itachi fighting at full power
Kishimoto: lets make some concentrated MS spam here, using even new jutsu, using the crow, using the legendary totsuka sword.

3rd fanboy wish: i want to see an Itachi vs Nagato fight, that would be epic.
Kishimoto: even better, let them be able to regenerate so they can take more hits of each other's deadly jutsu. let's have a healthy Itachi who can use susano without coughing up blood and dying

4th fanboy wish: i want to see Itachi teaching Naruto about being a better ninja and joining teams with Naruto.
Kishimoto: there's no fighting scene in this manga where Itachi is not badass, we see again that Itachi is a one-hit-K.O. king. His one hit wins include: Deidara and Orochimaru with genjutsu, Orochimaru and Nagato with Susano+sword.

This chapter was even better than the previous one

I don't understand all the whining about Naruto being stupid in this chapter, he was never supposed to be too smart, and Kishimoto never forgot to show us that Naruto will never fundamentally change, he is becoming more mature and more expierenced, but he is still the good old Naruto that we know from the 1st chapter. There was always his allies and friends help him out when his brain fails, it is in his character to become friends so easily and to gain people's faith so that they even risk their life for him. This time it's Bee and Itachi who help him. This is one of the main themes in this manga and in many others, it's obvious that Naruto can't beat Madara alone, Madara is smarter and stronger and more experienced, Naruto will need the help of his friends, and among them his most important help will be Sasuke (who knows, maybe even Kabuto will help him in the end).
Respect! Gave the people what they want!
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Old 2011-08-17, 14:38   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Kishimoto answered so many fanboy wishes in this chapter that this is clearly one of the most epic pure fighting chapters

1st fanboy wish: i want to see a full powered Nagato which is a true descendant of the sage of 6 paths
Kishimoto: Nagato is be so badass that Naruto tells us in this chapter that Nagato is much stronger and faster than Pain was. It is logical, since Nagato was radio-controlling Pain, so part of his power was lost because of that, as we have seen for Chibaku Tensei he had to move Pain a lot closer to his real body, which means distance is important, and here with zero distance Nagato is at full power for the first time in this manga.
.
Nagato still didn't use every type of Ninjutsu, so I still say he was significantly underpowered from what he could be. Sprouting cyborg arms from nothing is fun, but I wanted to see Nagato shoot off 6 different S-Class elemental jutsus (from all the elements) within seconds. Hell, I wanted to see him using combination jutsus, as well as bloodline abilities (not that either were confirmed as possible for the Rinnegan, but it would have still been cool). Now that would have been an indicator of the true power of the Rinnegan. Instead, we get the same old shtick as before.

In other words, Itachi is able to pull a new jutsu out of his ass, but Nagato is stuck with the same techniques as before...that seems a little unfair.

This was an okay chapter, but it was simply fan service, and just okay fan service at that.
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Old 2011-08-17, 14:39   Link #46
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I just wish some pages were larger or something, it's hard to tell wtf is going on in fighting scenes sometimes.
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Is your friend (atleast with firefox).


Naruto being stupid doesn't matter if it is with day to day things, however he used a technique on an enemy he knew does not work.... Good thing his life wasn't on the line......
He has shown to be a better fighter then what we saw today.
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Old 2011-08-17, 14:44   Link #47
Alchemist007
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Never did think about that with images, despite the blurriness, it clarifies some details
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Old 2011-08-17, 16:01   Link #48
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This is one of the main themes in this manga and in many others, it's obvious that Naruto can't beat Madara alone, Madara is smarter and stronger and more experienced, Naruto will need the help of his friends, and among them his most important help will be Sasuke (who knows, maybe even Kabuto will help him in the end).
Problem is that it doesn't match with his newfound messiah philosophy. He wants to solo the war and is taken out instantly by the second guy he meets. Fabulous start for him. As long as Naruto charges ahead wanting to solo and needs to be bailed out, he'll look stupid and be bashed accordingly. Naruto may not ever grow up. (actually that's not the point, but he regresses. his part 1 personality > his pre Pain part 2 personality > post Pain personality) but the situation evolved and Naruto now looks utterly retarded most of the time. Kishi approves or doesn't care since instead of making Naruto more convincing, he keeps bailing him out in his TNJ attempts : He knows Naruto has no arguments so he comes up with other crap. ("oh you have a book with by Jiraiya with my name on it. I just said you were stupid to not want to kill me, but now I'll kill myself helping you." "Hey, your dad was cool, he avoided my punch, you can go to the war". "Wow, you have a zombie of my brother helping you, maybe I should listen to you after all")
about dull and pointless fanservice)
I also don't see why people are in awe of this chapter Nagato. He is still probably stronger than Itachi, but Itachi clearly stole the chapter. And this comes from a Uchiha hater. But coming from Kishimoto, it was inevitable. The only reason Nagato ever was important was because Kishi was forced to add that Child of Prophecy crap to make it looks like Naruto was more important than Sasuke and that the manga was not all Uchiha. But the gig is up, the manga is almost over, all what's left is Naruto vs Uchihas plus a couple of filler fights. Hence Nagato went down faster than Hanzou or the baka brothers. He is completely insignificant to the plot, and his companion Konan wasn't even worth a mention. (even though what's up in the Rain village, their take toward Akatuki, the Alliance, Naruto or the War is easily more interesting than anything that has happened in the war so far. And more relevant, since it's concerns directly Naruto's status in the shinobi world while the war is just worthless inconsequential filler fanservice. at this point non-spoiled anime-only readers will wonder if the arc canon or not)

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I wish Naruto had played a more crucial part. He's so powerful, yet he's still being bailed out. At least this shows that old enemies can still present a serious challenge for him, though Nagato and Itachi are about as ludicrously strong as you can get. Entertaining chapter.
Remember Bee said Naruto would finish his training on the battlefield ?
Since Kishi intends to make him learn the hard way, I suppose he is going to get caught into everything that comes at him for a while and this won't be pretty, but he should gain immense experience from this. Naruto won't look good, but I suspect this training method will be less boring and more annoying than his previous training sessions. After all, most zombies, even the ones weaker than him, should have techniques able to take him offguard. (Dan's Ghost mode comes to mind if he really escaped when Madara wrecked havoc with Gedou Masou)

From Toroi, he learned zombies had to be sealed. (he didn't seem overly concerned over this. Does he already knows how ? After all, he popped Rikudou seals on the Kyuubi out of the blue. If he can't right know, he'll be able to at the end of the Edo arc)
From Nagato, he learned he still need Sage Mode detection. (well, not sure he realized this already, but Jiraiya used Sage Mode to ask the frogs to find the chameleon for him, so with his Sage Mode sensing ability, Naruto wouldn't have been caught by the chameleon) and how to prevent soul rip (and possibly being sealed away). Bee seemed to think Naruto would have been able to prevent his soul from being sucked. If Naruto knows how to defend this, he might be able to revert it to make his own sealing jutsu if he doesn't have one already.

There is probably more to come. The new Pains are probably the end of training fight, right before Sasuke. That's where he'll show everything. He'll have both Sage and Kyuubi Mode combined, so he will be able to find the chameleon. He'll defend the soul rip and seal them himself. And then Sasuke will pop out of Madara's pokeball. Itachi and Bee are the crutches he'll rely on during this "training" and as long as it will be "training", they will outshine him.

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-08-17 at 17:02.
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Old 2011-08-17, 16:11   Link #49
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Itachi is nicely badass but it still feels like MEH chap. I mean what's the point of making Nagato that hax only to nuke him away with that triple combo 10 pages later? Might as well have killed him with 3000 years of pain ^^ I see that Itachi's arm looks kinda like crumbling away late in the fight ... I sure hope he's gonna last some time it was such a nice twist to have him break loose from Kabuto. While I can aknowledge that fully powered Nagato is just that badass hax, I still am unwilling to consent that Kabuto has it in him to make use of his complete powers. He already stepped up the edo tensei from Orochimaru, with numbers and all the rezzed kages and shit like deidra v2 ... but this is lame pushing him closer to Madara like this over just a couple of chapters. Wonder where this will be going ...
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Old 2011-08-17, 16:48   Link #50
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The Madara fight might not be as hard. He did split his powers like Pain.
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Old 2011-08-17, 17:04   Link #51
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Nagato still didn't use every type of Ninjutsu, so I still say he was significantly underpowered from what he could be. Sprouting cyborg arms from nothing is fun, but I wanted to see Nagato shoot off 6 different S-Class elemental jutsus (from all the elements) within seconds. Hell, I wanted to see him using combination jutsus, as well as bloodline abilities (not that either were confirmed as possible for the Rinnegan, but it would have still been cool). Now that would have been an indicator of the true power of the Rinnegan. Instead, we get the same old shtick as before.

In other words, Itachi is able to pull a new jutsu out of his ass, but Nagato is stuck with the same techniques as before...that seems a little unfair.

This was an okay chapter, but it was simply fan service, and just okay fan service at that.
Well the last time Nagato used elemental jutsu was when he was 10 years old and Jiraiya confirmed he can do all elements. I complained about Pain not using it against Naruto. But then thinking about it, the author maybe wants to say that these elemental jutsu are too weak compared to the 6 realms jutsu, that is Nagato doesn't use elemental jutsu because he has more effective and powerful jutsu now. The overall effect of elemental jutsu in this manga seems to be downplayed, i don't even remember anyone (of the strongest guys) winning with the help of elemental jutsu, they just use those as supplementary jutsu in some tactics (for example Jiraiya when he prepares to beat Pain with genjutsu). Even the highest forms of elementary jutsu seem to fail, for example rasenshuriken fails against shinra tensei, amaterasu failes against raikage's taijutsu or Bee's transformation, Kirin fails against Susano. It seems as if elemental jutsu are jounin level, these guys don't even bother using such lowly jutsu.

On the other hand we have Itachi here, he simply does not give enough time to his enemies to even begin to use hand seals Here he saved Naruto and Bee two times and after that he immediately uses the totsuka sword to beat Nagato, it seems as if the "fight" was longer only because Itachi had to save Naruto
Itachi doesn't know about the laws of shonen fighting, that is he should use weak moves in the first chapters and after those fail use mediocre moves and use his best move aftet a dozen chapters. If he was the main character nobody would care about fights, every fight would be half a chapter long, that why Kishimoto had to kill Itachi, to protect the sales of the manga

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Problem is that it doesn't match with his newfound messiah philosophy. He wants to solo the war and is taken out instantly by the second guy he meets. Fabulous start for him. As long as Naruto charges ahead wanting to solo and needs to be bailed out, he'll look stupid and be bashed accordingly.
We could argue about the being a messiah means someone cannot be stupid issue forever, but it's useless since most of the action shonen manga heroes are like that. Goku, Luffy, and who knows what others. This is a basic concept in these mangas, the loser who becomes a savior. Even in the Matrix Neo is not particularly smart, he does not outsmart his enemies, he overpowers them.

Nagato is not the "second guy he meets". Nagato and Itachi are the 2 strongest ninja that we have seen in this manga, so when i see him beating Naruto, or Itachi beating Naruto, it does not make me think that Naruto has suddenly become weak or very stupid.

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2011-08-17 at 17:22.
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Old 2011-08-17, 17:27   Link #52
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On the other hand we have Itachi here, he simply does not give enough time to his enemies to even begin to use hand seals Here he saved Naruto and Bee two times and after that he immediately uses the totsuka sword to beat Nagato, it seems as if the "fight" was longer only because Itachi had to save Naruto
Itachi doesn't know about the laws of shonen fighting, that is he should use weak moves in the first chapters and after those fail use mediocre moves and use his best move aftet a dozen chapters. If he was the main character nobody would care about fights, every fight would be half a chapter long, that why Kishimoto had to kill Itachi, to protect the sales of the manga
I think that is one reason I like this chapter. The fight is swift and effective, in my eyes. After saving Naruto and Bee (and gave them some lessons on basics) Itachi just went for the kill.
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Old 2011-08-17, 17:35   Link #53
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Nagato still didn't use every type of Ninjutsu, so I still say he was significantly underpowered from what he could be. Sprouting cyborg arms from nothing is fun, but I wanted to see Nagato shoot off 6 different S-Class elemental jutsus (from all the elements) within seconds. Hell, I wanted to see him using combination jutsus, as well as bloodline abilities (not that either were confirmed as possible for the Rinnegan, but it would have still been cool). Now that would have been an indicator of the true power of the Rinnegan. Instead, we get the same old shtick as before.
We may still see what you just described. Just not from Nagato. Madara's puppets I imagine are even more powerful.

I really hope Itachi sticks around for awhile. It would be epic if he were around when Sasuke shows up. If what Kabuto said was true, and Edo Tensei won't cancel of its own accord, even if Kabuto dies... is the only way to stop/kill Itachi... to seal him?

Who does Kabuto have left to counter/capture the new trio? His Ace in the coffin? I'm interested to see what he does now.

If Madara knew that Itachi was on the loose, I'm sure he would put a stop to it, to prevent him from influencing Sasuke.

I feel like the trio would get destroyed by Madara and his puppets. Too many Rinnegans and sharingans to deal with, and they are immortal jinchuurikis to top it off. Itachi better keep his sword handy. The trio needs a kage to join them and make it a quartet, to give them a better chance. I'm thinking Gaara. He needs to finish off his battle first though.

I'm still waiting for an update on Kakashi's division. No word on the seven swordsmen or the bloodline limit zombies. I wonder if this was to give Suigetsu time to get there? Also Chiyo and Kimimaro have yet to fight.
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Old 2011-08-17, 17:38   Link #54
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We could argue about the being a messiah means someone cannot be stupid issue forever, but it's useless since most of the action shonen manga heroes are like that. Goku, Luffy, and who knows what others. This is a basic concept in these mangas, the loser who becomes a savior. Even in the Matrix Neo is not particularly smart, he does not outsmart his enemies, he overpowers them.
Neo or Goku never had any complex messiah. Both Goku and Neo had capacities their teammates had not. Naruto has nothing in common with those guys concerning this matter. Most shounens become saviours at the end. None of them claim midway they will become saviour and solo a war involving dozen of thousands ninjas only to get one paneled by someone they already defeated and who is now a pawn of a pawn.

That's what is so aannoying about Naruto. We know he'll win at the end, so he'll be the one in the right, but only at the cost of many deus ex machina, PIS, coincidences and flukes. His arguments are so poor it's aggravating unless you are a god at suspending your disbelief. Kishimoto completely fails at writing the rise of his Naruto character into a coherent, believable and acceptable manner. I mean. If RM is faster than Raikage, then show it right away and not after 3 chapters of Naruto struggling to avoid Raikage. If Naruto is supposed to convince Raikage to go, then give him arguments, not "shut up I am the main character" "only your father dodged my punch, you can go" after a completely irrelevant flashback. And it's like this every time.

Quote:
Nagato is not the "second guy he meets". Nagato and Itachi are the 2 strongest ninja that we have seen in this manga, so when i see him beating Naruto, or Itachi beating Naruto, it does not make me think that Naruto has suddenly become weak or very stupid.
It's the second enemy he fights. The other being Toroi. It's dumb luck he hasn't to also fight Itachi otherwise it was game over already. Even with Itachi, he is lucky to still be alive.
And Nagato may be the strongest ninja introduced so far, but this is not even close from being the biggest hurdle Naruto will face in this war.

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-08-17 at 18:09.
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Old 2011-08-17, 19:34   Link #55
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It was really cool to see a full powered Nagato, not so cool to see him owned by Itachi so easily. Kinda lame to me at least.

Without Nagato or Itachi as bodyguards maybe Kabuto will be forced to summon that Coffin he used to spook Madara.
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Old 2011-08-17, 20:24   Link #56
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But then thinking about it, the author maybe wants to say that these elemental jutsu are too weak compared to the 6 realms jutsu, that is Nagato doesn't use elemental jutsu because he has more effective and powerful jutsu now. The overall effect of elemental jutsu in this manga seems to be downplayed, i don't even remember anyone (of the strongest guys) winning with the help of elemental jutsu
Of course, because everyone and their brother can do elemental jutsu. And so such jutsu can be countered by ninja who are used to fighting elemental jutsu. How many use justu that rip the opponent's soul out of their body? Well, a couple people have been shown to do that , but you get idea. It's still a rare ability. Most ninja can probably handle a fireball, not many are prepared to face soul-sucking or a super-dense gravity ball that crushes everything into oblivion.

I understand where james is coming from though. There's something more impressive about characters using powerful versions of commonly practiced fighting techniques rather than using weird abilities. Unique powers are cool, but sometimes they make battle a little too superhero-ish, rather than emphasizing the martial arts aspect of the fights.


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Most shounens become saviours at the end. None of them claim midway they will become saviour and solo a war involving dozen of thousands ninjas only to get one paneled by someone they already defeated and who is now a pawn of a pawn.
I don't think that just because a character accept the role as savior means they shouldn't be subject to dumb mistakes or failure. Kishi wasn't trying to say Naruto had evolved beyond failure, he's still human.

While I'd say the chapter made Naruto look too amateurish, I also realize that he was in a situation where he viewed his enemies as friends even though he still knew they were a threat. He went from facing crippled Nagato who was chatting amicably and providing what help he could to suddenly facing full-powered Nagato who was relentlessly attacking with everything he had and then some. I can understand Naruto being overwhelmed. If he had been in a situation where he was facing that kind of power from the beginning and knew the enemy was dead serious things might've been different.
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Old 2011-08-17, 20:42   Link #57
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Well we can say Nagato wasn't owned by Itachi quickly since it took the combined powers of Itachi, Naruto, and Kirabi to defeat him. Three against one. None of them could have defeated Nagato on their own in his prime. Nagato doesn't need to take a backseat to anyone. Even if his ending was anti-climatic and rushed.

I am also surprised by how many(on other forums) are throwing Naruto down the toilet because of his performance here. What did we expect? We know he is an idiot and makes many mistakes and survives because he is the main character.

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The trio needs a kage to join them and make it a quartet, to give them a better chance. I'm thinking Gaara. He needs to finish off his battle first though.
Gaara is a side character. Gaara had his moment against his father and now will help Onoki defeat Muu. And that will be it. There is no reason on earth he is joining these three. He is not stepping up to the majors.

For the cheese factor alone I would love to see Naruto fight with the Konoha 12, but that is not happening either.

In order to give this series ANY feeling of danger, Kirabi and Zombie Itachi have to go bye-bye. Naruto cannot be the savior of anything as long as he has two bodyguard/babysitters protecting him. It probably made sense to have Itachi go out here against Nagato, but I am sure Kishi wants to shove more Itachi fanservice down our throats before he is sealed or fades away.

Right now this trio is way too powerful and we have zero suspense. So something has to happen to the other two very soon.

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I'm still waiting for an update on Kakashi's division. No word on the seven swordsmen or the bloodline limit zombies. I wonder if this was to give Suigetsu time to get there? Also Chiyo and Kimimaro have yet to fight.
I was just thinking about this. Once you unleash the main character and have crazy overpowered fights with living gods, it is very hard to get your fans back into being excited about leftovers. Kishi probably should have wrapped most of the secondary fights on the first day. Really, does anyone care about seeing Suigetsu or some other small fry nobody fight now? What on earth can poor Kakashi do to impress us now? What about the freaking Konoha 12? That's why you generally build your fights up in level. Perfect example was the Sasuke Rescue Arc which started with Choji vs. Jirobo and ended with Naruto vs. Sasuke.
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Old 2011-08-17, 21:06   Link #58
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Gaara is a side character. Gaara had his moment against his father and now will help Onoki defeat Muu. And that will be it. There is no reason on earth he is joining these three. He is not stepping up to the majors.
Gaara helping would make so much more sense than Itachi breaking out of Edo Tensei and surviving Naruto that it's not being funny. Plus, he is even more popular than Itachi and I am pretty sure Itachi's being still around is pointless fanwanking.

Quote:
For the cheese factor alone I would love to see Naruto fight with the Konoha 12, but that is not happening either.

In order to give this series ANY feeling of danger, Kirabi and Zombie Itachi have to go bye-bye. Naruto cannot be the savior of anything as long as he has two bodyguard/babysitters protecting him. It probably made sense to have Itachi go out here against Nagato, but I am sure Kishi wants to shove more Itachi fanservice down our throats before he is sealed or fades away.

Right now this trio is way too powerful and we have zero suspense. So something has to happen to the other two very soon.
Well Itachi will stay for a while since the crow is there to stay (just rewatch the last page) and Naruto will have to learn how to use it. (heck, after that Nagato Uzumaki revelation, odds are that Naruto will awaken the Rinnegan and become a total travesty of his Pt1 self).
Nagato had Madara's eyes (according to Madara), Naruto has Shisui's and Shisui's eyes are apparently also uber powerful. I loathe that idea, but the crow showing up right when Naruto says he'll take over for Nagato combined with the otherwise pointless revelation about Nagato's Uzumaki heritage and that Nagato's eyes were Madara's (hence originally sharingans and the reason why Madara never showed MS : He wasn't using his original eyes) leave little doubts about what's in store for Naruto. Kishi has been setting up this for a long time now.

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I was just thinking about this. Once you unleash the main character and have crazy overpowered fights with living gods, it is very hard to get your fans back into being excited about leftovers. Kishi probably should have wrapped most of the secondary fights on the first day. Really, does anyone care about seeing Suigetsu or some other small fry nobody fight now? What on earth can poor Kakashi do to impress us now? What about the freaking Konoha 12? That's why you generally build your fights up in level. Perfect example was the Sasuke Rescue Arc which started with Choji vs. Jirobo and ended with Naruto vs. Sasuke.
Naruto has clones heading everywhere. He'll take part in most of the remaining battles or witness them and learn something he'll reuse later on. There wont' be big battles, its just set up so that everyone will fawn over Naruto again.

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-08-17 at 21:17.
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Old 2011-08-17, 21:15   Link #59
thermopyle
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Ha! I won't hold my breath Kishi.
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Old 2011-08-17, 21:25   Link #60
james0246
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Well the last time Nagato used elemental jutsu was when he was 10 years old and Jiraiya confirmed he can do all elements. I complained about Pain not using it against Naruto. But then thinking about it, the author maybe wants to say that these elemental jutsu are too weak compared to the 6 realms jutsu, that is Nagato doesn't use elemental jutsu because he has more effective and powerful jutsu now. The overall effect of elemental jutsu in this manga seems to be downplayed, i don't even remember anyone (of the strongest guys) winning with the help of elemental jutsu, they just use those as supplementary jutsu in some tactics (for example Jiraiya when he prepares to beat Pain with genjutsu). Even the highest forms of elementary jutsu seem to fail, for example rasenshuriken fails against shinra tensei, amaterasu failes against raikage's taijutsu or Bee's transformation, Kirin fails against Susano. It seems as if elemental jutsu are jounin level, these guys don't even bother using such lowly jutsu.
I did not doubt the effectiveness of Deva Path’s powers. Shinra Tensei, Bansho Tensho, and Chibaku Tensei are easily in the Top 10 most powerful attacks seen in the series thus far. But, the elemental mastery that the Rinnegan is said to posses has never once been shown (beyond a few hodge podge lower ranking techniques when Nagato was a kid). When we first heard of the Rinnegan's powers, I fully expected to see an uber form of Kakuzu's fighting techniques (rapid fire use of elemental attacks as well as combined elemental attacks). Instead we get a combination of powers with few connecting traits (and of the powers, at least half of them are underwhelming (Summoning, random Cyborg abilities, Human path). There is something truly visceral about controlling the elements, and the Rinnegan is supposedly to be the supreme controller of elements, but we were never actually shown this ability. Hell, we haven't even seen the full extent of the 7th Path's powers yet.

In the end, I will always think that Nagato is always weaker than he should be, if only because Kishimoto never gave a valid excuse for not using all the Rinnegan's powers...
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