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Old 2011-08-20, 06:57   Link #81
shankss
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Even thou I hate these "We will show you our power and boss is going to topple us with his extraordinary power-up next week! Hell yeah" Bleach style episodes, I must admit that it was a brilliant chapter.Zoro was burning hot and Im shocked to see Sanji developing something from his fight with Jyabura.Robin was nice but...meh, not so different than her former hand strike : Also loved the fact that Brook has his own portable sharingan illusions now hopefully anime will make this look scary scary and impressive rather than being totally funny.

My only concern was that Franky, Chopper and Usopp was forced to drive Power Rangers mechas instead of fighting.I was especially waiting something really impressive from Usopp.He waited more than long enough to shine.Hopefully he will find a worthy opponent from fishmen pirates since this battle is far from over.
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Old 2011-08-20, 09:08   Link #82
Bonta Kun
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Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
After following this debate for awhile, I've come to the conclusion that the only way "first" and Zoro come together is that he was Luffy's first recruit.
lol you must forget after the time skip when the gang get back together back at Shabody, Zoro arrived 1st remember
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Old 2011-08-20, 12:47   Link #83
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Geez, the classic "monster trio" tier debate rears its ugly head again. Well, I'll just repeat my old stance that all three of them are roughly equal to each other (with Luffy being just slightly above the other two) and leave it at that....



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Originally Posted by shankss View Post
My only concern was that Franky, Chopper and Usopp was forced to drive Power Rangers mechas instead of fighting.I was especially waiting something really impressive from Usopp.He waited more than long enough to shine.Hopefully he will find a worthy opponent from fishmen pirates since this battle is far from over.


While I thought it was pretty cool to see various crewmembers piloting Franky's new WMDs, I do agree that I'd rather see them fight on their own (ESPECIALLY Usopp, who I'm still hoping will take on Zeo). But hey, I don't doubt that we'll see Franky and the "weakling trio" kick some ass without the aid of vehicles soon enough.
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Old 2011-08-20, 14:09   Link #84
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The good old: "Urp Derp Zoro is strungah cause he haz swordz!"

Buggy used several blades.
Kuro used big ass blades.
Don Krieg had multiple blades and spikes.
Arlong could bite through stone and his nose was a freaking saw.
Crocodile had multiple cutting attacks and a poisoned hook.
Enel had a spear.
Foxy had spiked gloves.
Blueno and Lucci had several cutting and stabbing abilities.
Moriah could use his shadows to cut things as well.
Shiki's animals had fangs and claws.
Shiki had swords for legs.
Marigold and Sandersonia had haki, fangs and one of them had a naginata.

And so on. Nearly all of Luffy's opponents that he has defeated have had the ability to cut and stab him. The fact that Zoro uses swords doesn't mean anything in this situation.
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Old 2011-08-20, 19:31   Link #85
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I hope Sanji gets over the whole 'not using my hands' thing and starts using knives.
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Old 2011-08-20, 20:53   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
I hope Sanji gets over the whole 'not using my hands' thing and starts using knives.
I think the whole "not using my hands" thing is what makes him special combat wise. I would actually hate for him to start using his fists or weapons.
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Old 2011-08-20, 20:55   Link #87
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Geez, the classic "monster trio" tier debate rears its ugly head again. Well, I'll just repeat my old stance that all three of them are roughly equal to each other (with Luffy being just slightly above the other two) and leave it at that....
Agreed.
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Old 2011-08-20, 23:28   Link #88
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Sanji? equal to Zoro???

I think its pretty obvious that Zorro is stronger than sanji,
Its just that Sanji wont accept Zoro is stronger than him, and Zoro kinda respect sanji by not letting him know he is much stronger than him,,,,

Zoro even said to sanji that "Besides, Im stronger than you" - Davy Jones game
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Old 2011-08-20, 23:49   Link #89
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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
Sanji? equal to Zoro???

I think its pretty obvious that Zorro is stronger than sanji,
Its just that Sanji wont accept Zoro is stronger than him, and Zoro kinda respect sanji by not letting him know he is much stronger than him,,,,

Zoro even said to sanji that "Besides, Im stronger than you" - Davy Jones game
Yes, "because Zoro said so!" is THE give away that Zoro is stronger than Sanji. Because it couldn't possibly be Zoro being a competitive dick.

Listen, there are no evidence that show Zoro is stronger than Sanji or the other way around. Most if not all of Zoro and Sanji's opponents have been around the same level and they both have shown to have roughly the same amount of trouble handling them.

You might believe something is true just cause you want it to be in your mind, but you cannot stat something is true like it is a proven fact.
Even when people say that Luffy is only slightly above Zoro and Sanji is only based on the level of opponents they have faced since Luffy always faces the strongest enemy in the arc. However saying this does not make it a proven fact that Luffy is stronger. Who knows, maybe Zoro or Sanji could have beaten Lucci for example, but until we Oda himself states their "power levels" we can only assume and speculate but never speak of it as proven fact.

Thus why these "Who's the stronger in the monster trio" crap discussions lead to nowhere.
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Old 2011-08-21, 00:13   Link #90
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Quote:
Yes, "because Zoro said so!" is THE give away that Zoro is stronger than Sanji. Because it couldn't possibly be Zoro being a competitive dick.
Please don't do sarcasm on here, some people won't get it..

Quote:
Listen, there are no evidence that show Zoro is stronger than Sanji or the other way around.
^

(Y)
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Old 2011-08-21, 00:17   Link #91
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Now that it appears that the "who is stronger" discussion is going nowhere, can we get back on topic and discuss the chapter itself?
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Old 2011-08-21, 00:36   Link #92
yakumo-chan
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post

Listen, there are no evidence that show Zoro is stronger than Sanji or the other way around. Most if not all of Zoro and Sanji's opponents have been around the same level and they both have shown to have roughly the same amount of trouble handling them.
In my opinion,

Luffy = Zoro > Sanji

Quote:
You might believe something is true just cause you want it to be in your mind, but you cannot stat something is true like it is a proven fact.
I think its pretty obvious already
Quote:
Who knows, maybe Zoro or Sanji could have beaten Lucci for example, but until we Oda himself states their "power levels" we can only assume and speculate but never speak of it as proven fact.
LOL!
Remember Sanji using "Concasse" against Zoro? When Zoro was hit by that it feels like nothing to him.

also, try to imagine the match up of their skills,
do you think Sanji can keep up with Luffy's Gear Second and Gear 3rd?

Sanji beating Lucci? now thats funny
I still think that Zoro > Sanji
Asura vs. Diable Jamble?
Asura ofcourse!

Remember Zoro's Ultimate Sacriface in THriller Bark?
Its the reason why I can tell that Zoro=Luffy(slightly)
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Old 2011-08-21, 00:41   Link #93
paradox13
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Quote:
In my opinion,

Luffy = Zoro > Sanji
I think you've made that pretty clear.

Quote:
I think its pretty obvious already
And yet you've given no evidence to support your argument, other than one liners like 'i think its pretty obvious already' or 'Sanji beating Lucci? Now thats funny'.

Quote:
also, try to imagine the match up of their skills,
do you think Sanji can keep up with Luffy's Gear Second and Gear 3rd?
We have been talking about Zoro vs Sanji throughout the last 2 pages, and yet all of a sudden, you throw Luffy into it, and act as if that somehow supports your point.

Quote:
Asura vs. Diable Jamble?
Asura ofcourse!
Why?

And 'because its obvious' isn't a valid answer, I am sorry.

Now that I think about it, I am not sure whether or not you are trolling or just intensely stupid.
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Old 2011-08-21, 00:52   Link #94
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
I think you've made that pretty clear.



And yet you've given no evidence to support your argument, other than one liners like 'i think its pretty obvious already' or 'Sanji beating Lucci? Now thats funny'.
Because if you try to imagine Lucci's speed, Sanji has no chance,,,
Randrak is kinda saying that Sanji can also beat Lucci,, which to me is not

Quote:
We have been talking about Zoro vs Sanji throughout the last 2 pages, and yet all of a sudden, you throw Luffy into it, and act as if that somehow supports your point.
nope, I only throw luffy in because Randrak says that Sanji could also beat lucci, which if you try to speculate from their skills, there's no way Sanji can beat Lucci

Quote:
Why?

And 'because its obvious' isn't a valid answer, I am sorry.

Now that I think about it, I am not sure whether or not you are trolling or just intensely stupid.
Because there's no valid answer that Sanji=Zoro....
And it is obvious because Zoro is always fighting the Second strongest enemy...

Sanji will never beat Zoro's Ultimate sacrifice in thriller bark
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Old 2011-08-21, 03:42   Link #95
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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post

Sanji will never beat Zoro's Ultimate sacrifice in thriller bark

Only because Sanji got sucker punched by Zoro. Look, I like Zoro, but there no direct evidence stating either one is stronger than another. You can say that you "think" Zoro is stronger than Sanji but don't pass it off as a fact. Besides, when did sacrifice ever equal to strength?

If you go by sacrifice as your reasoning, I would say that Robin is the strongest of the crew, because her sacrifice includes the genocide of her people in Ohara, her childhood, and her innocence.


As for Ashura v.s. Diablo Jambe, personally I don't see how Ashura is a sure win, afterall, from what we've being shown, both Luffy and Sanji seems to be faster than Zoro in term of pure speed so I have serious doubt on whether Ashura can connect or not.

While My view is that Luffy > Zoro >= (slightly) Sanji right now mainly due to quality of competition. That is just my opinion, along with some biase (in Zoro's favor), but that is not fact.


In fact, I would argue that at Water 7 Arc, Sanji is probably the stronger of the two.

The reasoning is that Jyabura's douriki is virtually identical to Kaku, (2180 v.s. 2200) yet Sanji's fight with Jaybura is much more dominating than Zoro's fight with Kaku, and Sanji was in worse condition than Zoro at the time. (fought earlier on Puffing Tom, than got weakened by Kalifa.) And not only that, we were shown that he can actually fight with knives and his hand skill might even be stronger than his leg skills.


But seriously, Nami is the strongest of the SH, since she is the only onewho have being shown that can routinely beat the crap out of the Trio.....
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Old 2011-08-21, 04:15   Link #96
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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LOok at those damn legs of robin!! they aren't just legs but DAMN SEXY HUGE LEGS!!! I'm willing to die being stomped by her. <<<33
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Old 2011-08-21, 04:26   Link #97
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isn't it written in the data books that zoro is the second strongest fighter among the straw hats, with luffy being the strongest and sanji as the third strongest? correct me if i'm wrong.

i guess most people consider zoro stronger than sanji because of his seemingly super human strength. even without his swords he can still fight like a monster, not to mention he was trained by one of the strongest shichibukai. so far the new abilities he has shown has not really impressed me. but knowing oda, i'm sure he has something up his sleeve. so until we see zoro fight for real in this arc, we can't really judge.

another advantage that zoro has over sanji is that he doesn't choose his opponents. he has that killer instinct that sanji lacks somehow. sanji would completely fail against a chick, while zoro would kick that chick's butt all the way to mars. he doesn't have qualms about being a gentleman or not hitting a woman. he's a warrior and if he has to fight a girl then so be it.

but to compare zoro and sanji would be unfair i think. both have very different abilities and personalities. zoro is the typical brawn, strong, fearless, and fierce with the heart of a true warrior, but he doesn't really think all that much. he's the perfect first mate for luffy because he would support him in his endeavors no matter how crazy they may be. but then again sanji is the smarter one. i don't really see him as a fighter but rather a tactician. he's the typical brains. so in a way, he too would make the perfect first mate for luffy since he could offer "reason and intelligence". he's more of a protector than an aggressor who would give the first blow.

they do have something in common though, both are quite honorable fellows. they may hate each other's guts but they both agree when it comes to fighting, honor and friendship. remember when luffy and usopp had their falling out? while the others were against the whole duel, both zoro and sanji agreed to it and even encouraged luffy to bear with it since he is the captain, if he falters then who will they look to in times of trouble?

i hate to compare these guys because i both love them and both deserve respect and admiration. both are well-developed characters, thanks to oda's ingenuity. but if you guys want to keep this discussion going, i suggest we make a different thread for this. this discussion is really for the current chapter.
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Old 2011-08-21, 05:33   Link #98
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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the only uncertain one is WHO IS THE 4TH STRONGEST CREW.

1ST, 2nd And 3rd is already given. although i do think zoro's quite equal to sanji. *shrugs*
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Old 2011-08-21, 07:24   Link #99
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I like Sanji more, but I admit Zoro is stronger (not by very much though) .. and now remember that Zoro uses 3 swords and devoted his whole life to fighting, while Sanji uses only legs (no hands, no swords) and is foremost a cook .. he cooks first, fights second


most important part of the awesome chapter - ROBIIIIIIIIIIIN !!!!!!!!!!! OH_MY_GOD, the woman is H.O.T. .. dem legs
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Old 2011-08-21, 08:31   Link #100
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Because if you try to imagine Lucci's speed, Sanji has no chance,,,
Randrak is kinda saying that Sanji can also beat Lucci,, which to me is not


Randrak is saying that since we have only seen Lucci match up against Luffy, we just don't know how either Zoro or Sanji would fare against him. There is just no evidence one way or the other. How can you say 'if you try to imagine Lucci's speed, then Sanji has no chance'? That is not valid reasoning, it is pure speculation.

SEARCH UP THE WORD SPECULATION. THAT IS ALL YOU ARE DOING.

Quote:
And it is obvious because Zoro is always fighting the Second strongest enemy...
Lets compare Zoro and Sanji's past enemies as well as Luffy's, shall we?

Arlong arc:
Zoro fought Hatchi, and Sanji fought Kuroobi, both were Arlong's lieutenants of equal rank. Luffy fought Arlong, who was the captain and undoubtedly strongest member of the crew.

Arabasta arc:
Zoro fought Mr 1 and Sanji fought Mr 2. Mr 1 is ostensibly stronger, however we saw Mr 2 getting into a fight with Mr 1, which shows that Mr 2 at least thought that he was just as strong as Mr 1. Furthermore, Mr 2 was the only agent without a partner. Luffy fought Crocodile, a shichibukai and boss and strongest member of Baroque works.

CP9 arc:
Zoro fought Kaku and Sanji fought Jyabura. Kaku is stronger in terms of douriki, however the difference was only 20 douriki. Moreover, douriki only takes into account physical strength, and not any other ability. Jyabura could presumably bridge the gap in terms of physical strength with his devil fruit ability since he is more experienced with it. Luffy fought Lucci, who was clearly stronger than the rest of CP9 (2000 more douriki than Kaku).

There is a reason why Oda portrays the two as equal rivals. Whilst Zoro often takes on the opponent who is slightly stronger, there does not seem to be a clear distinction in terms of strength between the two, at least in terms of opponent, and the margin is too narrow to tell. Another thing to note is that neither Zoro nor Sanji needed to fight at full strength (unlike Luffy). If anything, it appeared as though Zoro fought harder against Mr 1 than Sanji against Mr 2.

Quote:
I like Sanji more, but I admit Zoro is stronger (not by very much though) .. and now remember that Zoro uses 3 swords and devoted his whole life to fighting, while Sanji uses only legs (no hands, no swords) and is foremost a cook .. he cooks first, fights second
There are some people who devote their whole lives to something, and yet in the end still suck at it, so that is not a valid argument.


And no need for a new thread, since Zoro fanboys will continue to be fanboys no matter what you say.
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Last edited by paradox13; 2011-08-21 at 08:46.
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