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Old 2011-08-24, 13:39   Link #21
epyon96
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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
I'm kind of baffled why anyone is surprised that it is Itachi who is going to take on Kabuto. He's the only person that stands a chance except Madara, and it's already been established that genjutsu is the only way to truly stop Edo Tensei. It would be absurd if the level of genjutsu that someone like Kakashi can muster is enough to get Kabuto. Of course, anyone attacking Kabuto will also have to worry about zombies defending him, and of course Itachi is the only person in the Narutoverse with offensive sealing.

Now, I am terribly disappointed that Bee, Naruto, and Itachi aren't going everywhere together, because they would be the most unstoppable team ever.
three man team for the win!
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Old 2011-08-24, 14:02   Link #22
Kowai
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Itachi would never "go after Sasuke" or "return with naruto" because his goal was to never reveal that the uchiha were planning a coup, and to be the ultimate villain killed by Sasuke who should have became the ultimate hero. Even though Sasuke didn't work out he still doesn't want the uchiha reputation to be tarnished (even though Madara is doing an excellent job at that).

So I agree that itachi could have fought Madara (and maybe still can if he "wins" against kabuto and doesn't get released *unlikely*) but I think since Madara is the end boss it has to be naruto probably with help from his all his friends... Cheesey
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Old 2011-08-24, 14:16   Link #23
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Itachi: "Naruto, don't try to handle everything by yourself, you have friends, I tried to handle everything by myself and failed."

Naruto: *revelation moment*

Itachi: "Now, excuse me while I go kill Kabuto by myself."
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Old 2011-08-24, 14:21   Link #24
haegar
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my bad, my bad, so spoiler was true

well, dunno what to say yet. all in all agree the plotweaving feels a bit rough around the edges. The crow buissiness kinda annoys me, that darn thing was soo hyped and then after it finally appeared, *whooosh* it goes outa the window. Granted, using it to "rez the rezzed Itachi for good" so to speak was a a rather enjoyable twist - but then have Itachi leave to cancel out Kabuto (who wouldn't have needed to be canceled out in the first place if he hadn't been needlessly haxed up to be nearly as bad as Madara over the war chaps) well, that's just MEH, though still better than him going for Sasuske again.

I dont mind the emo part of "let all the folks who acknowledged you support you now* - though in terms of powerlevels that is problematic considering at the end we are shown how the people supposed to back the future hokage need to be bailed out by Odama Rasengan or whatnot 0.o

As for Kabuto's trump card, meh, I dunno, he seems to be mightily enjoying himself to finally use it, and it certainly looks Oroish around the tongue there - if it does turn into the Itachi Oro rematch I guess I wouldn't even mind since it might be epic ...

What I dont quite get though is how he so happily looks forward to using his final trump considering Madara hasn't even got started yet. Either he is very sure Naruto can keep Madara occupied - or it's gonna be so hax he feels confident about basically any possible opponent he might have to deal with. If he gets haxed up YET ANOTHER notch I shall be pissed. This is givin Oro's reincarnation waaay too much slack. Oro was a badass slimy asshole, but compared to what came after him he wasnt so bad rly, so yeah, like I keep on repeating over the last two or three chapter threads, we have Madara and Sasuske, why the HELL does Kishi hype Kabuto? HMPF.

edit: btw we might be gettin trolled here and it's Konohamaru coming to Tsuchikage's rescue - supposedly Naruto did teach him odama after all
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Old 2011-08-24, 14:22   Link #25
Sabaku Kyu
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I guess Itachi wasn't ready to go poof like I thought. I'm glad he's not going with Naruto and Bee though because while they would pretty much be a dream team, Naruto doesn't need another babysitter. He doesn't really need any babysitter, but Bee's probably going stick around until Madara.

I did find the part where Itachi roasts the crow with Amaterasu hilarious. Itachi just finishes giving Naruto some warm fuzzy advice about relying on friendship then *fwoosh*, he lights up the crow that had just landed on his arm. It wouldn't have been so funny (or disturbing) if Kishi hadn't had the poor thing cry out in agony . And Naruto's reaction was priceless too "WHY?!"

Now I just imagine Itachi wandering around the forest like a ninja Snow White, burning to ashes all the woodland critters that make friends with him.

Back to the story: The Naruto Gaara sees at the end is probably a bunshin meaning it's not powerful enough to even come close to defeating Muu. But once it's destroyed the real Naruto will know what's going on the battlefield, and he'll either decide to help out or continue to wherever he's going (if it's not Gaara's location already)

And Itachi's going to fail I think. If he stops Edo Tensei, Madara's Rinnegan puppets turn back to dust right? That doesn't seem right. I think Kabuto's trump card will stop Itachi in his tracks. There will be another way to end the jutsu.
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Old 2011-08-24, 14:28   Link #26
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As much as I like Itachi, I really don't hope he'll succeed in taking out Kabuto. That would pretty much destroy the last tiny chance of ever seeing Orochimaru again, if there even is one at that point. Yes, I like to cling on to him, because he's my favorite bad guy in the series, and because the manga's story as a whole would seem much more coherent if Oro had at least some connection to Madara's plan.
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Old 2011-08-24, 15:06   Link #27
Rahan
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
And Itachi's going to fail I think. If he stops Edo Tensei, Madara's Rinnegan puppets turn back to dust right? That doesn't seem right. I think Kabuto's trump card will stop Itachi in his tracks. There will be another way to end the jutsu.
Nope, it's certain Itachi will succeed at cancelling the Edo Tensei, which will probably take himself out in the same time.
It was said speculated Edot Tensei's weakness would be Kabuto's demise ever since his convo with Madara. It was implied again this chapter. Edo Tensei has a weakness, no matter what Kabuto may think.

The only question is whether Kabuto will survive zombie Itachi, but since he is completely worthless without his zombies (absorbing Oro is not even close from cutting the gap between him and the top brass) there is no reason to think he will.
Kabuto is a complete joke. He is not half the threat he was at the beginning of the war (Madara stole the jins, the kages are about to be done, Nagato is gone and Itachi broke free. All what is left is the 6th coffin and fodders) and hasn't been built up in the slightest ever since. Worse, he is already forced to use his trump card, but not on Madara, Sasuke or Naruto. On one of his own zombies who is stronger than him, knows Edo Tensei has a weakness and still has a plan. (and no one will take over this plan if Itachi fails, so the plan will work)
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Old 2011-08-24, 15:37   Link #28
Haak
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Originally Posted by Kowai View Post
Itachi would never "go after Sasuke" or "return with naruto" because his goal was to never reveal that the uchiha were planning a coup, and to be the ultimate villain killed by Sasuke who should have became the ultimate hero. Even though Sasuke didn't work out he still doesn't want the uchiha reputation to be tarnished (even though Madara is doing an excellent job at that).
That's ridiculous. Itachi only cared about the Uchiha reputation for Sasuke's sake. He only cared so that Sasuke could be a hero in his villiage. None of that shoud matter anymore, if Sasuke is planning to kill everyone in Konoha. Sasuke has already established himself among the people of his former village as a guy who betrayed them. He put the nail in the coffin when he joined Akatsuki and killed Konoha's hokage.

In any case why would Itachi confronting Sasuke a second time jeopordise the reavling of the secret Uchha coup?
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Old 2011-08-24, 16:39   Link #29
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Nope, it's certain Itachi will succeed at cancelling the Edo Tensei, which will probably take himself out in the same time.
It was said speculated Edot Tensei's weakness would be Kabuto's demise ever since his convo with Madara. It was implied again this chapter. Edo Tensei has a weakness, no matter what Kabuto may think.
Kabuto didn't say that Edo Tensei had no weakness - it does. Killing Kabuto will not end Edo Tensei, but he is susceptible to genjutsu that can be used to force him to cancel Edo Tensei. Kabuto said this himself, this is the weakness to Edo Tensei. Itachi probably knows this, or recognizes it, anyway.

What Kabuto did say, however, that it had no risk, which appears to be true. The cost of the jutsu is directed at the victim used as a human sacrifice, unlike, say, the Eight Gates, the Cursed Seal, Kage Bunshin, or any of the other jutsu in Naruto that deliver great power in exchange for a price.

I am not so sure that Itachi will be successful in canceling Edo Tensei, or that it will also take Itachi out. I think Itachi will pass on, but it's hard to see where Kishimoto is going with Kabuto vs Itachi. It seems too early for Kabuto and the zombies to be defeated, unless Madara's Six Path Jinchuuriki are also no longer bound by Edo Tensei. I think at the very least that Kabuto will get away; he still "has" to deal with Madara so we can see what was in the coffin (unless for some reason that would be applicable to the Itachi fight), and that would leave the story of him and Sasuke and Naruto unresolved.

But if Kabuto just escapes, then I don't see why he can't re-resurrect any zombies once he collects a few prisoners.

Quote:
The only question is whether Kabuto will survive zombie Itachi, but since he is completely worthless without his zombies (absorbing Oro is not even close from cutting the gap between him and the top brass) there is no reason to think he will.
Kabuto is a complete joke.
Surely he is capable of summoning some powerful zombies to his location should it prove necessary. It would be very strange if he didn't also have zombies guarding him anyway. Since Itachi is so powerful though, no zombies should really stand a chance.


@epyon: Rare for us to be on the same side, remembering the DEC days.
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Old 2011-08-24, 16:39   Link #30
Kanon
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The crow shall forever remain the unsung hero of this manga. RIP.

I'm glad someone finally lectured Naruto about his new attitude. He was really starting to get on my nerves. Itachi is so awesome it's ridiculous. Naruto's first action as Hokage should be to posthumously award Itachi a medal, or heck, even the title of Kage. He's just that cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alddous View Post
Itachi: "Naruto, don't try to handle everything by yourself, you have friends, I tried to handle everything by myself and failed."

Naruto: *revelation moment*

Itachi: "Now, excuse me while I go kill Kabuto by myself."
Yes, Itachi has no friends. Did you really have to rub it in?
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Old 2011-08-24, 16:42   Link #31
Randrak42
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Ok...who's dead, didn't get his soul sealed, is strong enough to make Madara crap his pants and Kabuchimaru could still get some DNA?

Sage of the 6 Paths maybe?
Personally can't think of any other dead guy that fits the build AND we know of.
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Old 2011-08-24, 16:44   Link #32
DeDe
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post

Back to the story: The Naruto Gaara sees at the end is probably a bunshin meaning it's not powerful enough to even come close to defeating Muu. But once it's destroyed the real Naruto will know what's going on the battlefield, and he'll either decide to help out or continue to wherever he's going (if it's not Gaara's location already)
It could also be Konohamaru. That fits much better with the story. Naruto and Kirabi actually passed Gaara's location a while back.

12 pages were spent on Itachi telling Naruto he can't do everything and needs to rely on his friends. So unless Kishi is drunk, or likes contradicting things he wrote 5 pages ago, it would make no sense to have Naruto help his friends by involving himself in their battles. It would be a total 180 from what we just saw this chapter. Also the ending said, "Finally Arrived!?" No one was expecting a Naruto clone. But Gaara's division was expecting backup as part of the plan. Konohamaru could have been part of the 1st and 4th Divisions.

We've seen enough of Naruto.
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Old 2011-08-24, 18:04   Link #33
Sabaku Kyu
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Nope, it's certain Itachi will succeed at cancelling the Edo Tensei, which will probably take himself out in the same time.
It was said speculated Edot Tensei's weakness would be Kabuto's demise ever since his convo with Madara. It was implied again this chapter. Edo Tensei has a weakness, no matter what Kabuto may think.
Well, I have two main reasons for suspecting Itachi will fail:

1) Like I said before, there's Madara's jinchuuriki puppets and the rest of the zombies that haven't been featured yet (Chiyo, Kimimaro etc) Kishi almost certainly won't have Kabuto end ET before they have a chance to fight the alliance and Naruto. If Itachi ends the jutsu while they fight, then it's a very anti-climatic to end to all the battles (even more than love-no-jutsu).

2) The mystery coffin. Madara's afraid of/concerned about whatever's in there. We need to know why. Preferably by Madara encountering what's in said coffin. If Itachi defeats Kabuto and forces him to end the justu, then we miss that opportunity.

Regardless, I think Itachi will accomplish something whether he weakens the jutsu or causes Kabuto to drop his guard. But I don't know about ending the jutsu. Still, the jutsu needs to end some time. I guess Itachi could pull through.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post

In any case why would Itachi confronting Sasuke a second time jeopordise the reavling of the secret Uchha coup?
It wouldn't. Sasuke already knows about the coup, but Itachi already has a plan to defeat Kabuto and Kabuto's the more immediate threat to Konoha's forces right now. Sasuke already swore not go after Konoha until he's defeated Naruto so he's not really the biggest danger right now.

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It could also be Konohamaru. That fits much better with the story. Naruto and Kirabi actually passed Gaara's location a while back.
Yeah, but I think there's Kyubbi aura flames around hand at the end
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Old 2011-08-24, 18:19   Link #34
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^ Kishmoto doesn't hide things well. But I agree with Dede that it makes no sense for a Naruto clone to save Gaara and Onoki after Naruto just got a talking to from Itachi about letting the others do things.

Itachi: Stop trying to do everything yourself. Believe in your friends! They can handle things.
Naruto: Okay. You are right Mr. Itachi.
*Naruto clone saves Gaara and Onoki. Then defeats the two Kages*
Naruto: I am going to win this war all by myself!
Kishimoto: What? You expect any of this to make sense?

So Kishimoto might be trying to trick us into thinking it was Naruto. Or it is a clone and will vanish since he spent too much chakra and was forced out of Kyuubi Mode. This was all to give Onoki and Gaara a chance to escape for a second. And it also allows Gaara to know that Naruto is out on the battlefield. But having Naruto do anything in this fight would be a total contradiction to what we read with Itachi.

And where the hell is Gaara's backup?
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Old 2011-08-24, 18:41   Link #35
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The trump card: Minato or Rikudou Sennin? Albeit there are reasons it could not be either.
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Old 2011-08-24, 18:47   Link #36
Ero-Senn1n
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This was a strange chapter for me, as if Kishimoto suddenly changed his mind about what the issues that he hinted in the previous chapter. While i was hoping that Itachi makes Naruto stronger by some kind of training it didn't happen, but i wasn't really expecting something that cool, to show Itachi as a "sensei" would be too much of fanservice anyway. However here Itachi even takes away the crow, which means he thinks that the guy who has absolutely no talent in genjutsu will be able to fight against 2 of the 3 strongest genjutsu users who ever lived. Now that's what i would call bullshit, i was expecting that Itachi at least has a plan to help Naruto how to fight genjutsu. Sure Kishimoto made sure that Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi, so that Naruto has a chance, and we also know that all genjutsu except Tsukiyomi can be beaten having a teammate helping, so that Itachi's talk about friends helping makes sense. Also one can assume that Itachi does not know about Madara having the rinnegan and also having the Izanagi, but it's hard to believe that someone as smart as Itachi would underestimate Madara again, knowing well that Madara outsmarted him once and that Madara is able to fight a world war almost all by himself.

I liked Itachi's speech, it was necessary, we know how many guys complained here on the forum about Naruto being too arrogant now, and Kishimoto acknowledged this, and also connected this to Itachi's story in a nice way. But the lack of teaching Naruto or at least giving him advices, and also taking away the genjutsu crow... well Kishimoto did this already many times, i should have known He is just showing us how weak Naruto is so we will be scared that he loses, and then he wins, the usual stuff
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Old 2011-08-24, 19:00   Link #37
Rahan
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^ Kishmoto doesn't hide things well. But I agree with Dede that it makes no sense for a Naruto clone to save Gaara and Onoki after Naruto just got a talking to from Itachi about letting the others do things.

Itachi: Stop trying to do everything yourself. Believe in your friends! They can handle things.
Naruto: Okay. You are right Mr. Itachi.
*Naruto clone saves Gaara and Onoki. Then defeats the two Kages*
Naruto: I am going to win this war all by myself!
Kishimoto: What? You expect any of this to make sense?

So Kishimoto might be trying to trick us into thinking it was Naruto. Or it is a clone and will vanish since he spent too much chakra and was forced out of Kyuubi Mode. This was all to give Onoki and Gaara a chance to escape for a second. And it also allows Gaara to know that Naruto is out on the battlefield. But having Naruto do anything in this fight would be a total contradiction to what we read with Itachi.

And where the hell is Gaara's backup?
It's clearly Naruto or one of his clones (it's in Kyuubi chakra mode) and Naruto is clearly going to save the day on this front. He needs to meet Oonoki whom he hasn't met yet.
Naruto is also going to help / save Mizukage by the way. He also needs her acknowledgement.

Itachi's words about letting others help only concern himself. Itachi will handle the unsummoning of the Edo Tensei. The rest, apart from a reminder than Madara used to be also over protective over his clan before arrogance made him change, is only empty words.
Naruto may stop saying he is the messiah, he is still the messiah and not a mere kage in training. He needs more than trust his friends, he needs to gain many more friends all over the world (hence the unavoidable rescue of both kages he hasn't met yet) otherwise, he'll just remain a warlord.

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-08-24 at 19:24.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:32   Link #38
Ulquiorra
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Itachi's words about letting others help only concern himself. Itachi will handle the unsummoning of the Edo Tensei. The rest, apart from a reminder than Madara used to be also over protective over his clan before arrogance made him change, is only empty words.
Naruto may stop saying he is the messiah, he is still the messiah and not a mere kage in training. He needs more than trust his friends, he needs to gain many more friends all over the world (hence the unavoidable rescue of both kages he hasn't met yet) otherwise, he'll just remain a warlord.
I disagree Itachi's words were only meant for himself. They clearly were about how everyone views Naruto. The chapter title was "How to be a Hokage". Basically Itachi said, if you think you are above everyone and need to go save the world, you could end up like Madara. A Hokage is only strong thanks to the strength of others. As Itachi says not to forget his friends, we get a panel of the Konoha 12 and the village. Kishimoto seemed to be directly addressing a criticism(the Japanese must of had it since what we think doesn't matter) that Naruto has become arrogant in his power and doesn't trust his friends.

So the absolute worst thing you could do after this chapter is have Naruto, even a clone, save everyone. It is irrelevant if he meets Onoki or Mei Terumi and receives their acknowledge at this point. Itachi's lesson about friendship trumps all of that.

Naruto can't save the day by himself. That is what Itachi was trying to tell him. So either it was twist(Konohamaru) or Naruto's clone will only play a minor ancillary role and Gaara, his army, and the backup win the day. Just like what will happen with Kakashi and the others.

Look for Kishimoto to have the Naruto clones acknowledge Naruto's friends in a major way. This is definitely a rehabilitation of Naruto's character.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:53   Link #39
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itachi knows sasuke is a stubborn person with revenge in his heart. So if he talks to him to convince him to turn on madara he would just say the same things about how they "forced" itachi to kill his clan.

so its better that naruto is the one to convince him to come back to the left and pay for his crimes...which will prob be pardoned anyway.
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:15   Link #40
Randrak42
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The trump card: Minato or Rikudou Sennin? Albeit there are reasons it could not be either.
Sadly it can't be Minato, Kushina or any of the other three Hokages since they all had their souls sucked into the Shinigami.
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