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Old 2011-09-13, 18:36   Link #21
ChronoReverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haegar View Post
whether getting past or just dodging move, either way, he has to top the opponents speed. but you'r right, I forgot sage mode reaction was stated to be faster ...
Not faster (than chakra mode that is), faster to react. There's a difference there.

And it doesn't require you to be quicker than the object you're dodging to dodge it unless it's point blank range. The distance you have to move is considerably smaller than what the projectile has to travel.

For example, it's possible to dodge a baseball hurled at you and it's certainly not because you can move faster than it (even a kid is likely to be able to throw a baseball faster than you could ever run).
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:38   Link #22
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raikages ultimate finger of doom is NOT a baseball
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:48   Link #23
ChronoReverse
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Originally Posted by haegar View Post
raikages ultimate finger of doom is NOT a baseball
True enough but Naruto isn't a normal person either.


The point is that dodging a fast object doesn't require you to be even close to as fast as it.

As the speeds increase, the limiting factor is reaction time. And Sage Mode specifically increases that.
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:52   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Anyway, it still seems wrong that an ultimate lighting attack can defeat it but ultimate wind cannot. So much for the wind beats lighting
Wind beats lightning when up against eachother, but that doesn't necessarily mean wind is stronger than lightning against anything/everything else. The elements probably have properties to them that may factor in against other materials.

Quote:
But i was not "in denial" i just called this a minor plot hole, which is a usual thing in this manga (and of course any other manga/anime/movie).
The manga plainly stated one thing, you chose to create an alternative explanation of your own, and called the manga's explaination "bullshit"; thats blatant denial if I ever saw it.

Quote:
for example the raikage's lighting is a sword-like thing compared to Naruto's wind sphere-like thing, where obviously a sword can cut while a sphere cannot cut because the energy is distributed on a much larger surface of the body it hits. So with this i can defend the author's story.
This one possible explanation, among others, makes this situation not a plot-hole. The author doesn't have to explicitly give explanations for everything. As long as an event has a possible explanation, its not a plot-hole.

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You telling that the rubber guy knows all jutsu is simply wrong
I never said he knows "all jutsu" thats ridiculous. You stated the following in the previous chapter's thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
you talk about that as if that random guy knows anything about the FRS's power compared to the what he has seen until now
...As if to say that the cloud ninja hasn't seen anything as powerful (or more powerful) to the FRS, but I'm telling you he has seen at least one: the Raikage's chakra sword, and it even accomplished something the FRS couldn't.

Quote:
Rubber guy has never seen an amaterasu sword or Itachi's soul sealing sword, both of these can most likely defeat this raikage's defense easily.
But you don't know the "rubber guy", so I don't see how you can know what he's seen or has knowledge of. Itachi's sealing sword would simply seal Raikage in an eternal genjitsu, we don't know what special penetrating abilities the sword has, if any. I don't know if Itachi's sealing sword has more ability to penetrate than a bijuus chakra attack --which Raikage apparently survived. As for the Amaterasu, we don't know what would happen, perhaps it would burn for three days and go out, or eventually melt him, who knows. The current Raikage looked knowledgable of the MS(he turned up his raiton appropriatly as soon as he saw it, and even called it out by name) so we don't know what this cloud ninja knows; I thought this chapter would have made you realize jumping to conclusions is not a good way to reason things out.

Quote:
And just to repeat myself, the rubber guy has no clue how the rasenshuriken works, Tsunade had to analyze Kakuzu's body to discover the cell level destruction effect.
And just to repeat myself, he doesn't have to.

Last edited by Midnight Commander; 2011-09-14 at 00:39.
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:55   Link #25
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So Kishi forgot about the black lightning ...


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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
so the sayings that "The Raikage's Physical Body is Strong" was False right?
No this chapter proved there was no trick or anything. His body is so tough he is immune to attacks of the level of FRS / 8T bijuu dama.

If it proved anything, it's that FRS is not even close from being the strongest elemental jutsu despite being described as the "ultimate ninjutsu obtained from the combination of the highest levels of elemental recomposition and spatial manipulation" (approximative databook quotes). Kishi could have at least used black lightning to make swallow the pill. Or made it look like it wasn't a Chidori but a higher level jutsu.

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-09-13 at 19:15.
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Old 2011-09-13, 20:16   Link #26
xellos2099
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Well the third's lighting justsu certainly is hell lot strong than a chidori. See it this way... Sauske's chidori is not strong enough to break through the Fourth's lighting armor; while the third's finger technique is trong enough to break his own armor and it certainly feel like the third is a LOT stronger than foruth.
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Old 2011-09-13, 20:22   Link #27
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I haven't seen Naruto in 2 weeks, but when I come back it is always bad ass. Wonder how Naruto will cope now when he finds out about Sasuke
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Old 2011-09-13, 22:52   Link #28
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Sage mode > Kyuubi Super Saiyan.
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Old 2011-09-14, 03:06   Link #29
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the power gap between some of these newly introduced characters with older ones is huge. really, the only ones that still retain their hype is itachi,pain,madara,naruto, and sasuke.
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Old 2011-09-14, 03:53   Link #30
yakumo-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
So Kishi forgot about the black lightning ...




No this chapter proved there was no trick or anything. His body is so tough he is immune to attacks of the level of FRS / 8T bijuu dama.

If it proved anything, it's that FRS is not even close from being the strongest elemental jutsu despite being described as the "ultimate ninjutsu obtained from the combination of the highest levels of elemental recomposition and spatial manipulation" (approximative databook quotes). Kishi could have at least used black lightning to make swallow the pill. Or made it look like it wasn't a Chidori but a higher level jutsu.
If his body is so tough,
then how is it that a normal rasengan can pierce through his body?
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Old 2011-09-14, 04:05   Link #31
haegar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
If his body is so tough,
then how is it that a normal rasengan can pierce through his body?
it didn't. naruto used the rasengan as a 'buffer/proxy/shield' to protect himself from the charge and with that then pushed the raikage's arm in such a way that raikage impaled himself on his own hax finger. so basically naruto said "I reject you giving me the finger and give your finger back to you"
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Old 2011-09-14, 04:10   Link #32
yakumo-chan
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Originally Posted by haegar View Post
it didn't. naruto used the rasengan as a 'buffer/proxy/shield' to protect himself from the charge and with that then pushed the raikage's arm in such a way that raikage impaled himself on his own hax finger. so basically naruto said "I deny you the right to give me the finger and give your finger back to you"
oh....... ok
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Old 2011-09-14, 04:51   Link #33
Masuzu
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It...isn't a clone?

Well, shit.
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Old 2011-09-14, 06:57   Link #34
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Naruto: I think the ninja with the strongest shield is Gaara.

Wrong again Naruto, wrong again
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Old 2011-09-14, 07:15   Link #35
Masuzu
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^ Was it Naruto who said that?
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Old 2011-09-14, 07:35   Link #36
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^ Yes, he was. But man, i lol'd at the "one can't possess both the strongest spear and shield" line, i was thinking Lucifer and biscuit hammer would like to have a word with you kishi
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Old 2011-09-14, 08:20   Link #37
Discerptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
No this chapter proved there was no trick or anything. His body is so tough he is immune to attacks of the level of FRS / 8T bijuu dama.

If it proved anything, it's that FRS is not even close from being the strongest elemental jutsu despite being described as the "ultimate ninjutsu obtained from the combination of the highest levels of elemental recomposition and spatial manipulation" (approximative databook quotes). Kishi could have at least used black lightning to make swallow the pill. Or made it look like it wasn't a Chidori but a higher level jutsu.
Or it just means a ninjutsu focused into the shape of a very large shuriken isn't as effective at piercing as a ninjutsu focused into the shape of a spike. The potency and the ability to focus the jutsu into a single point of contact differentiated the Raikage's jutsu from Chidori/Raikiri.
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Old 2011-09-14, 09:33   Link #38
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Lendial View Post
really, the only ones that still retain their hype is itachi,pain,madara,naruto, and sasuke.
Don't forget Haku & Zabuza. They're still consistently as strong and menacing as we last see them in early chapters.
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Old 2011-09-14, 10:20   Link #39
Neji112
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With the talk of strongest shields, I wonder if zombie Kimimaro is still kicking. Technically he was pretty powerful and he had zombie Chiyo with him as well. A Garaa match up with him would have been more entertaining to me than the Mizukage.
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Old 2011-09-14, 13:36   Link #40
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
The manga plainly stated one thing, you chose to create an alternative explanation of your own, and called the manga's explaination "bullshit"; thats blatant denial if I ever saw it.
Not accepting the explanation or the lack of any explanation is my right as a reader

For example if you go back to chapter 553 page 11 you see that even Temari's wind jutsu could cut the raikage's body while it didn't have it's lighting armor. So then what did stop the rasenshuriken, if it was the body then it should have scars/wounds because Naruto's rasenshuriken is surely strong as Temari's, or if it was the lighting armor then you have the wind didn't beat lighting problem. Either way, i ecpected more damage and then regeneration. Overall i liked the Naruto vs raikage fight, the current chapter was good, but i think that rasenshuriken being completely useless was the weak point of the fight, and it was clearly done because the plot required it and not because it was the most logical thing to write.

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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
I never said he knows "all jutsu" thats ridiculous. You stated the following in the previous chapter's thread: ...

...As if to say that the cloud ninja hasn't seen anything as powerful (or more powerful) to the FRS, but I'm telling you he has seen at least one: the Raikage's chakra sword, and it even accomplished something the FRS couldn't.
You stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Wind beats lightning when up against eachother, but that doesn't necessarily mean wind is stronger than lightning against anything/everything else. The elements probably have properties to them that may factor in against other materials.
So you first say that different kinds of attacks which are on the same level can have completely different outcome but then you tell me that the cloud ninja should know the effects of the FRS just because he knows the effects of the raikage's lighting fingers. And on top of that, the rubber guy doesn't even know what the effect is, since he never knew what caused the scar on the raikage's chest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
But you don't know the "rubber guy", so I don't see how you can know what he's seen or has knowledge of.
We are talking about some minor side character here and you expect of this guy to know what effects S-class jutsus have. Not even the main characters know about each other's secret ultimate jutsu and they often die because of that. This was a relatively older cloud ninja for a reason, the author wanted someone who knows many things about the raikage, so his knowledge is probably limited to that, he was created by the author to be Naruto's senior advisor in this battle.
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