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Old 2011-12-29, 02:18   Link #241
theman4life
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Does anyone happen to have a full pic of Kanbaru in her Nisemonogatari outfit? I'm curious as to what kind of footwear she has on. Please be heels or sandals <3
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Old 2011-12-29, 03:05   Link #242
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Well that's because they can only put into the trailer material from the episodes they've animated, which would be the first parts.... anyway the quality seems really good for a SHAFT series, I guess having a more KyoAni like schedule compared to their SHAFTlike past has some benefits... poor Negima Movie, your sacrifice will not be in vain!
Shaft always needs something to sacrifice in order to make something good.

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Old 2011-12-29, 03:15   Link #243
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Terrific trailer. The stylistical continuity with the series is there, and the music is as catchy as ever. Hyped up as hell.

My favorite part is when he throws up Hachikuji in the sky. It looks so crazy
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Also, did Mayoi just say Araragi-san? I am broken and lost.
She mispronounces his name here and there, but not all the times.
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Does anyone notice that Tsubasa is shown as a static picture with a single line in the trailer?
Is her part not done yet?
Yeah, she shouldn't appear in the very first episodes. Too bad Nisio didn't write Nisemonogatari with trailers in mind
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Old 2011-12-29, 04:45   Link #244
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Travesty? I know the definition is technically correct but I would have used imposter or fake.
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Old 2011-12-29, 04:58   Link #245
Shikijin
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Travesty? I know the definition is technically correct but I would have used imposter or fake.
Yeah, travesty is more like a parody, while the theme here is the fake vs the real thing.

I would also say "bringers of justice" may be more easily understood if translated as the usual "allies of justice", while the speed booster should be the acceleration device from Cyborg 009.

I am also uncertain about the "shiranai, shiranai, nanimo shiranai". "Shiranai" literally means "don't know", but I learned it can also mean "don't care". I was waiting for fansubbers to see how they would translate that part.

Last edited by Shikijin; 2011-12-29 at 05:14.
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Old 2011-12-29, 04:59   Link #246
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^ It's great that we have knowledgeable people around. I have only skimmed the Translation thread, but no doubt there will be some issues (interpretation, localisation) with the subs of the show.

Last edited by zarqu; 2011-12-30 at 08:17.
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Old 2011-12-29, 08:27   Link #247
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RIP Natsu no Arashi
Hey Natsu no Arashi was damn swell on the DVDs. Not Shaft's fault Starchild sucks at promotion.
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Old 2011-12-29, 08:58   Link #248
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Originally Posted by theman4life View Post
Does anyone happen to have a full pic of Kanbaru in her Nisemonogatari outfit? I'm curious as to what kind of footwear she has on. Please be heels or sandals <3
She rocks Air Jordans. :P
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Old 2011-12-29, 09:51   Link #249
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^ I am amazed that her shoes drew your attention instead of EVERYTHING else
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Old 2011-12-29, 10:42   Link #250
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hahahahahahaha

I actually have no idea what she wears; I would hope that she does.

The PV didn't show anything from down there all that much. :P

edit: wait, that's not a very accurate statement. you know what I mean!
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Old 2011-12-29, 14:57   Link #251
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^ I am amazed that her shoes drew your attention instead of EVERYTHING else
The unknown things, left to the imagination, can be very sexy I guess? Well, I'll go with what I can see. Maybe...
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Old 2011-12-29, 21:17   Link #252
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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Yeah, travesty is more like a parody, while the theme here is the fake vs the real thing.

I would also say "bringers of justice" may be more easily understood if translated as the usual "allies of justice", while the speed booster should be the acceleration device from Cyborg 009.

I am also uncertain about the "shiranai, shiranai, nanimo shiranai". "Shiranai" literally means "don't know", but I learned it can also mean "don't care". I was waiting for fansubbers to see how they would translate that part.
Agree, that means on the PV "I don't know" while Koyomi is calling her sisters "fakers".
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Old 2011-12-29, 23:00   Link #253
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One more week till it airs...
Doki Doki Waku Waku...
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Old 2011-12-30, 01:42   Link #254
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Agree, that means on the PV "I don't know" while Koyomi is calling her sisters "fakers".
does that means they can do UBW?
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Old 2011-12-30, 01:57   Link #255
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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Yeah, travesty is more like a parody, while the theme here is the fake vs the real thing.

I would also say "bringers of justice" may be more easily understood if translated as the usual "allies of justice", while the speed booster should be the acceleration device from Cyborg 009.

I am also uncertain about the "shiranai, shiranai, nanimo shiranai". "Shiranai" literally means "don't know", but I learned it can also mean "don't care". I was waiting for fansubbers to see how they would translate that part.
Yeah, I wasn't really satisfied with that "travesty" line. The theme is indeed fake vs real, but putting "fake" there would be pretty bad and "impostor" is too much of a stretch. That line is a deliberate explanation of the title and I just put a word containing "st" with closest meaning, although "sham" or "phony" would've been even better for that particular line. "Travestory" sounds pretty awkward too, so we're still thinking about that one.

Seasoned anime viewers would understand "Allies of justice", but it sounds stupid. "Bringers of justice" is at least understandable. I would rather use "hero", but "justice" is a keyword here that needed to be kept.

As for "acceleration device", I wanted it to sound less mechanical and more like a superpower, but reading into the novel, Araragi does say she's "machine-like", so I'm thinking of changing that line for the main release.

The first two "shiranai" are arguably "I don't care" (she snapped), and the final one is a definite "I don't know" (because you don't say 「私何にも知らない」to mean "I don't care at all").
It was a response to Koyomi's tsukkomi, so "I don't know" would still work for first two, and repetition has a better flow.
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Old 2011-12-30, 05:18   Link #256
Shikijin
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Yeah, I wasn't really satisfied with that "travesty" line. The theme is indeed fake vs real, but putting "fake" there would be pretty bad and "impostor" is too much of a stretch. That line is a deliberate explanation of the title and I just put a word containing "st" with closest meaning, although "sham" or "phony" would've been even better for that particular line. "Travestory" sounds pretty awkward too, so we're still thinking about that one.
I think the idea of creating a portmanteau in English is cute, but ultimately unnecessary. If you look at the other book titles, not all are portmanteaus (e.g.: Nekomonogatari, Hanamonogatari, Otorimonogatari...). And I don't even know what the heck people will manage to translate Kizumonogatari with
Quote:
Seasoned anime viewers would understand "Allies of justice", but it sounds stupid. "Bringers of justice" is at least understandable. I would rather use "hero", but "justice" is a keyword here that needed to be kept.
This is a Japanese concept that probably is not really translatable (btw I discovered Japanese are the kind of people who would translate light saber with "sword of justice"(!)). And the monogatari series in the end targets people who are knowledgeable with anime (though even casuals may be fascinated by it). I can understand it doesn't sound natural in English, but if Western anime viewers like to have even honorifics left, then they can get some Japanese expressions too.

EDIT: oh wait, now I see you don't use honorifics. Nevermind, at least you are consistent. In fact, even I was initially against honorifics, then I saw even Zaregoto books had them. In the end it's like having a Mexican character saying seor, an irrilevant and pretentious display of national flair that nowadays doesn't really ruin the flow anymore. Anyway, being a translator involves tough choices, and it's good that there are versions for all tastes. (Now that I think about it, there is a certain part of Nise that should be hard to translate without mentioning honorifics though)
Quote:
As for "acceleration device", I wanted it to sound less mechanical and more like a superpower, but reading into the novel, Araragi does say she's "machine-like", so I'm thinking of changing that line for the main release.
Anyway, IIRC it's a reference to Cyborg 009, so it would be best to choose the term they used for that in English. Kanbaru being machine-like doesn't matter, it's just a joke. For example once Kanbaru said her specialty was B-dash, from Super Mario.
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The first two "shiranai" are arguably "I don't care" (she snapped), and the final one is a definite "I don't know" (because you don't say 「私何にも知らない」to mean "I don't care at all").
It was a response to Koyomi's tsukkomi, so "I don't know" would still work for first two, and repetition has a better flow.
Yeah, I feared that, Nisio fully utilizes all nuances of a word, and it is usually impossible to find an equivalent English word that does the same trick.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I'm the one who translated Kizumonogatari, so I know how much Nisio is difficult to tackle.

Last edited by Shikijin; 2011-12-30 at 08:43.
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Old 2011-12-30, 05:36   Link #257
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I agree with Shikijin, your group is doing a very good job already, but there is room for improvement. As for how literal translation should be, onomatopoeia, and the like, just keep in mind that the majority of the english fansubs are not watched by native speakers like the "professional" ones, and they usually confuse the majority of the viewers.
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Old 2011-12-30, 08:11   Link #258
omimon
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The only comment I can give is, "no honorifics, changing nii-chan to bro?"

"Nothing to see here." ~flies away on my jetpack
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Old 2011-12-30, 13:38   Link #259
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^^^

I agree that the title doesn't have to be accurate or even translated because they're basically there for marketing purposes, but there's a clear association in the line heard in the preview, and my editor for the main releases want the title translated. We might just leave it untranslated if we fail to come up with anything better though.

Anime is targeted towards Japanese viewers, and I frankly don't care about what the viewers who can't even understand the original material thinks how things should be translated. My translation style is geared towards greatest accuracy (retention of meanings) and readability, and that's that.

I also doubt most viewers are hardcore anime fans. I'm sure stream count far surpass actual torrent downloads, and those who complain about honorifics are vocal minority within the downloader group.

This probably has been discussed to death already, but those who understand honorifics can hear it, so there's no point in keeping them in the actual subtitle because they just add text length for little or no return. Subs have display duration unlike books, and they should be kept as concise as possible. Not to mention the absurdity of keeping source language in target language to begin with.
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Old 2011-12-30, 16:00   Link #260
Shikijin
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Anime is targeted towards Japanese viewers, and I frankly don't care about what the viewers who can't even understand the original material thinks how things should be translated. My translation style is geared towards greatest accuracy (retention of meanings) and readability, and that's that.
As an amateur translator, I can only learn from you. It's just that the saying "translator, traitor" is more than ever applied here. For example, if you are translating a light novel, and there is a peculiar expression, you can just translate it with the English expression most faithful to the original meaning and that's all. Now imagine the light novel gets an anime. Imagine that peculiar expression is illustrated with a graphical example. When you translate, what should you be faithful to? The images or the words? Should you leave a translation note? Does this retroactively applies even for a light novel that you suspect is going to get an anime? For me these are tough choices anyway

(by the way, Del Rey could at least have put some cultural reference notes in Zaregoto. Who the heck is Nenbutsu no tetsu?)
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This probably has been discussed to death already, but those who understand honorifics can hear it, so there's no point in keeping them in the actual subtitle because they just add text length for little or no return. Subs have display duration unlike books, and they should be kept as concise as possible.
I'm uncommited on leaving honorifics. Back when I started buying manga, all professional translators never left honorifics. It's just a recent trend. Still, customs do have their reason I suppose. I think it has its pros and cons. If you have found your way, don't bother.

Still, Nisio do manage to bring the honorifics as actual topic of discussion once in a while, and while -san has English equivalents, -kun and -chan do not. I will see.
Quote:
Not to mention the absurdity of keeping source language in target language to begin with.
While at first it may sound absurd, a lot of languages actually use words from other languages. Mostly English terms, like computer and internet (I think only French bothered to created their own words for these terms). The Japanese use a lot of English words even if they have the Japanese equivalent for them, just because they sound cool. Maybe it's multiculturalism, but nowadays people are getting accustomed to the idea that people can also speak in other languages, so it's not really a big problem anymore.
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