AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-09-22, 13:21   Link #61
Randrak42
ANEGO Worshiper
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
And these aren't just any lions they're dealing with. They are cream of the crop. I mean, when readers think of "shinigami" we're pretty much thinking of captains or VC's because the story features them almost exclusively. It's pretty easy to forget that 99% of shinigami are closer in strength to a shinigami like Zennosuke (Afro-dude) than they are Kenpachi or Byakuya. Chad even points out the insane difference in strength back in the SS arc when he compares the strength of the 8th squad 3rd seat who he beat effortlessly, to the squad captain, who destroyed him in seconds, even though they were just two ranks apart.

So even if the Fullbringers have dealt with ordinary shinigami before, it's understandable that they could be overwhelmed by a VC or captain.
You actually have a point. This reminds me of the gatekeepers, supposedly they are supper strong but even Ichigo beat one easily just after getting into SS.
The other fullbringers (except Ginju) probably had no idea what a Vice-Captain and a Captain really were. Of course they would get cocky.
__________________

Spoiler for Top 10 Harem Protagonists:
Randrak42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-23, 09:55   Link #62
toriko
Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
Still don't understand why the heck Ishida is so friggin' weak. Jesus he would've wtf pwned Renji at the time of the KT arc. It just boggles my mind how Kubo can let a character like that go to waste.
Yeah he is a good character but kubo turned him into punching bag and character to show awesomness of antagonist.
toriko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-23, 15:20   Link #63
Lendial
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
im actually glad their pwning the fbs easily. the last thing i want is some melodramatic power hype like when we were first introduced to the arrancar, only for them to be reduce to cannon fodder afterwards.

these shinigami are seasoned fighters at this point and it makes sense for them to have something to show for it. though it may ultimately be hype for the next bad guy who should somehow be related to the fbs.
__________________
Lendial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 03:44   Link #64
Lord of Pandemonium
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: I'm Dancing & Yelling GANBATTE KAGURA! YOU GO GET YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!!! SHIPPING THEM HARD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
The whole arc is disappointing...
For you maybe, but I actually loved the arc. It's just the last two chapters were boring as hell.. I am disappointed because the Fullbringers are getting curb-stomped. The Arrancar put up more more of a fight

That's why I don't believe that they're the main antagonist of this arc.

I think it's still Aizen.

Renji's statement to Jackie really makes me think it's not over....and Aizen will be back sooner than we think . Maybe he's already escaped prison. Renji made me believe that it's not just wishful thinking on my part, because I wanna do love-- the smug, magnificent bastard, either

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Well... considering how Isshin is a shinigami, he most certainly can't be the "Human" so the human must have been ichigo's mother... and this was before Ichigo found out about Isshin. based on that some people might draw the conclusion that full phrase was "the Child of a Human and a shinigami"... but I'm sure all that logic is just crazy talk. Clearly Aizen was talking about a fullbringer even though it does not fit into any line of logic there.
...huh?
Last time I checked, Humans couldn't breed children with anyone other than humans. Foxhead and Nemu are the only ones that aren't human...oh and Akon doesn't look Human either. Humans who die can become Shinigami. There are actually a lot of Shinigami that come from Rukongai. Hitsu, Rukia and Renji and several others. It is said that Rukia "died" and came to SS. Shinigami are also human, they're just incorporeal and have supernatural abilities. (barring the dogie and the leggy mod soul babe)

I think Aizen said the "Child of Shinigami and a Human Fullbringer"

I also think that Ginjou is also the child of a human and Shinigami. I don't know if that's his real body, or a faux one though ....
*Random*...
Er did any of you see the Hellverse Movie? Did you see the one in which the subbers translated "Shinigami Daiko" as "Shinigami Proxy"--Doesn't that make more sense? I was just curious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Oddly enough someone left me a comment with regards to my previous post - "fool!" I laughed out loud. Kids these days
That's so juvenile ---

Still... yours are a lot nicer than mine I am just confused ..because it was for the time I said" I meant Ichigo...blah...blah..blah....." Instead of one of the times, I was being obstinate to the point of being annoying, and might've actually I said MIGHT HAVE!!! deserved it.... [(I am not blind to my faults, you know. I have no problem admitting I have them either . I know I can be pretty annoying sometimes. But no one is perfect-..-I just hope that you can learn to love me in spite of my obvious character flaws. Besides I can grow on you like mold)

They did tell me to "Please continue fighting the good fight." I guess this person loves to hate me and is actually pleased when I am being obnoxious Maybe my existence inside of them, is BIGGER than any other user. Even if I'm not making them feel warm and fuzzy about me Yes. I am fully aware you were being sarcastic. Which is why I am being deliberately obtuse

Boy this is a hard knock forum- you really have to work to be loved don't you?

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2011-09-24 at 04:21.
Lord of Pandemonium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 10:06   Link #65
Araxiel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post

And Ikkaku is just pure badassery. <3
Strange that this hasn't been mentioned more- Ikkaku popping his shoulder back in just by flexing his muscles and making a rapeface was easily the highlight of this chapter.
__________________
Araxiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 10:38   Link #66
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
They did tell me to "Please continue fighting the good fight." I guess this person loves to hate me and is actually pleased when I am being obnoxious Maybe my existence inside of them, is BIGGER than any other user. Even if I'm not making them feel warm and fuzzy about me Yes. I am fully aware you were being sarcastic. Which is why I am being deliberately obtuse
Well, these days you do seem a bit like a one man/woman army.

I just wish there were still shipping wars allowed on this forum. At least back then people had a cause and stuck by it. They put a lot of effort into their posts, backing it up with evidence from the manga and anime. They were really well thought out and actually very interesting to read most of the time.

And then others, like myself, said to hell with it and stuck to humour

Miss those days.



On an unrelated note, I would like to respond to the message left for me that said "Excellent, please continue passing every week for less whining!" in regards to my initial post in this thread. (Mods, this is not an attack regarding reps, I have a valid point to make)

Spoiler for Meh.:


So yes, long winded post but my point can be summed up as - We whine because we used to care about this manga. If Kubo doesn't fix this mess there won't BE a BLEACH manga. So requesting that I (and other whiners) skip reading/buying chapters for the sake of minimizing whining is counter-productive to your cause.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )

Last edited by Langus; 2011-09-24 at 11:12.
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 10:42   Link #67
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
They put a lot of effort into their posts, backing it up with evidence from the manga and anime. They were really well thought out and actually very interesting to read most of the time.
Oh please. ¬____________¬
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 12:45   Link #68
Slayerx
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Renji's statement to Jackie really makes me think it's not over....and Aizen will be back sooner than we think . Maybe he's already escaped prison. Renji made me believe that it's not just wishful thinking on my part, because I wanna do love-- the smug, magnificent bastard, either
Yes the unfortunate return of one of manga's most overpower, yet most boring villians
Quote:
...huh?
Last time I checked, Humans couldn't breed children with anyone other than humans.
checked what exactly? there is nothing within bleach that says humans can't breed with shinigami

Quote:
I think Aizen said the "Child of Shinigami and a Human Fullbringer"
You were the one who mentioned the quote, and that quote was "Child of a human and a-"
He did not say human fullbringer, he said human... plain as day.
__________________
Slayerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 13:01   Link #69
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
checked what exactly? there is nothing within bleach that says humans can't breed with shinigami
.
Kinda hard to breed with a soul...

Then again if shinigami can physically touch humans...

But that doesn't neccesarily mean souls have functional reproductive organs...

But maybe Gigai's do...

But then why would they?...

So many questions. So few answers...
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 14:00   Link #70
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 25
Wasn't Byakuya and his line born in SS? Implying that they can at least breed with each other.
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 14:09   Link #71
Lord of Pandemonium
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: I'm Dancing & Yelling GANBATTE KAGURA! YOU GO GET YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!!! SHIPPING THEM HARD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Wasn't Byakuya and his line born in SS? Implying that they can at least breed with each other.
Maybe, maybe not....Shibata said that they don't really have families and are mostly made of surrogates. His adopted brother also said that they don't age. But those are normal pluses that don't have Shinigami powers...merely latent hollow reiatsu. Because they can become hollows and like Lynette said to Ukitake, they don't age. But Shinigami do age, and they get hungry so they can probably reproduce. Since it seems to me that even in death they represent life.

I do believe that some Shinigami have been born there and some came from the living world. Because Byakuya spoke as if being a noble in SS, comes from having noble bloodlines (when fighting Ichigo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Kinda hard to breed with a soul...
Oh Contraire Mufraire... Isshin fathering Ichigo proves that this is untrue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post


But that doesn't neccesarily mean souls have functional reproductive organs...
Why not? They have all their other organs and can even bleed to death...Zaraki almost bled to death when fighting Noi. Ukitake clearly has tuberculosis. Matsu got her stomach and intestines ripped out. So it's not hard to fathom her having a working uterus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
But maybe Gigai's do....
..I used to joke that Isshin got a special gigai from Urahara that came equipped with ejaculatory features
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
But then why would they?...
I don't think it's the norm but it's possible. It could explain why Ginjou was the only other Shinigami Proxy (I rather like calling them that)...because he was a Shinigami by birth but he doesn't hail from Soul Society

Ichigo hasn't been in gigai all this time,. He was born, he aged & grew up, and Byakuya turned into a normal plus once. He once had a chain of fate, so a part of him is human. The "flesh" and "blood" kind. The other part of him is human, but it's the incorporeal kind...

"He was trying to turn you into a human. Do you understand He wasn't trying to help you, or give you power? He would have turned you into a normal human"

Rukia's gigai that Urahara created during the TBTP arc, would have turned her into a normal human. So it's further proof that Humans and Shinigami are the same species. One just has flesh and the other is a spirit. I am willing to bet that gigai is the same one Isshin used to become a regular human and that is also why Kubo had Aizen say that to Rukia. Because it was foreshadowing of Isshin being a Shinigami. Because he does plan a lot of things...maybe not every detail but Kubo has shown over and over that a lot of things were planned and not just random shyte he pulled outta his azz
Yay for run-on sentences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Araxiel View Post
Strange that this hasn't been mentioned more- Ikkaku popping his shoulder back in just by flexing his muscles and making a rapeface was easily the highlight of this chapter.
I dunno that kind of gave me the heebie jeebies. Not to mention every time I look at it, my shoulder hurts..

Renji was the highlight for me, even if I didn't see him do anything special. He was still cool and I swear to god I am gonna beat Kubo within an inch of his life, if he pulls out the same damn Bankai and doesn't have a second stage of release...after I make him draw the chapters 3 months in advance, because he's gonna need that much time to recover from the ass-whipping I'm gonna give him

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2011-09-24 at 14:39.
Lord of Pandemonium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 18:55   Link #72
kagato3
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
I'm fairly sure that at least some of the Shinigami are born into SS otherwise Byakuya's mariage and Rukia's adoption would not have been so cotaversal. Also you have the second squads VC's family who all but one member (the "ugly" one) have a very strong family resemblance for them not to be a true family. there was an old thread about this.http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=29171


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
Still don't understand why the heck Ishida is so friggin' weak. Jesus he would've wtf pwned Renji at the time of the KT arc. It just boggles my mind how Kubo can let a character like that go to waste.
It was pretty much spelled out durring the fight with Thunderwitch Quinceis aren't big power houses themselves they basicly steal power from those around them and use that so the stronger the enemy and ailies around them equals a stronger quincy.
__________________
Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD.

kagato3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 21:38   Link #73
Chiisai Kuma
Senior Member
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ireland (hello British Bleach fans)
XD the engine and exhaust on jakie look exactly like they just came off the vintage Honda CD175 my dad got on thursday XD XD XD XD
moterbikes in bleach *choir of angles start singing in my head*
renji is haxed. wish he'd get some different abilities. his zanpacto spirit thingy shoulda taught him atleast one new trick by now, theyv'e been training for over a year and a half.
(only stoping in for a min.)
__________________

sig made by the wonderful Godlike1889
http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=80506
Chiisai Kuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 21:41   Link #74
Lord of Pandemonium
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: I'm Dancing & Yelling GANBATTE KAGURA! YOU GO GET YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!!! SHIPPING THEM HARD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Well, these days you do seem a bit like a one man/woman army.
On an unrelated note, I would like to respond to the message left for me that said "Excellent, please continue passing every week for less whining!" in regards to my initial post in this thread. (Mods, this is not an attack regarding reps, I have a valid point to make)

Spoiler for Meh.:


So yes, long winded post but my point can be summed up as - We whine because we used to care about this manga. If Kubo doesn't fix this mess there won't BE a BLEACH manga. So requesting that I (and other whiners) skip reading/buying chapters for the sake of minimizing whining is counter-productive to your cause.
Actually Bleach's ranks have gone up since the chapter everyone went all Stepford on Ichigo BEFORE Rukia's return. Her Return really made them soar and the past few weeks it's been in the top 5.

@slayerx---I didn't say Shinigami can't breed with normal humans (Isshin is proof positive they can) I meant that Humans can only breed with Humans...well normally, because Koma is a doggie but I think it's wise to wait for Kubo to explain that freakish species

Isshin is a human...Shinigami is a JOB DESCRIPTION...it's not a species/race
Lord of Pandemonium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 21:42   Link #75
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
I just read the manga and that "F**K YEAH!!" by Ikkaku is gold.
And I don't know what's the connection between Jackie's Fullbring ability with a motorcycle engine. She can just have a bucket of bottomless mud and nothing changes much.
__________________
Marcus' Handpicked!
Summer 2014: Hanayamata, Rail Wars!, Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?, Sabagebu!, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Hanamonogatari.
Spring 2014: No Game No Life, Date A Live II, Magica Wars, Fairy Tail and Isshukan Friends.


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 35. Completed: 208. Plan to watch: 35.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-24, 22:47   Link #76
ronin myael
lost ronin
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
So yes, long winded post but my point can be summed up as - We whine because we used to care about this manga. If Kubo doesn't fix this mess there won't BE a BLEACH manga.
i think kubo has grown bored with bleach. of course that's purely my opinion. it's just that as readers, you can usually tell when the writers still care about their writing, or when they're just trying to keep their stories afloat. that's the feeling i get when i read bleach nowadays. it no longer has the flash and charisma that it used to have. i agree that bleach had so much potential. kubo did create an interesting world. i still remember thinking how cool his kimono-wearing shinigami and their katana-like zanpakutou were. the shinigami is a huge part of the japanese superstitious beliefs but i've never seen them portrayed in such a way before. but something went wrong and sales started to drop. bleach lost its place in the big 3 and it's losing fans. it's true though, i still read bleach because i've been reading it for so long and i actually thought that kubo was ending the series with the aizen war so i figured i should be there when it happens. imagine my surprise when it didn't end! but i guess you're right, i complain because i used to care for this manga and i still care somewhat whether i like it or not. but i'd rather have him end the series when it's still readable than have him just abandon it like he did with zombie powder. that manga had some potential too. too bad he chose to abandon it like that.
__________________
"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)
ronin myael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-25, 01:27   Link #77
rei_ayanami17
Agent 0017
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: in Gin Ichimaru's heart
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
it's true though, i still read bleach because i've been reading it for so long and i actually thought that kubo was ending the series with the aizen war so i figured i should be there when it happens. imagine my surprise when it didn't end! but i guess you're right, i complain because i used to care for this manga and i still care somewhat whether i like it or not. but i'd rather have him end the series when it's still readable than have him just abandon it like he did with zombie powder. that manga had some potential too. too bad he chose to abandon it like that.
Eheh,…….how touching to read that! XD. I really want to see that time too how will Aizen end up. Very intrigue about “Does he going to fullfil his evil plans? Does Ichigo able to stop him? How? Then, whoa! The Mugetsu technique is very awesome! But is that enough? What’s next? .” ----- then, the next chapter *bam* “Aizen is sealed!” and I was like Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??????!!!!!!!!!!!!??????? …….so that’s it? Nothing to say. *sigh*

Btw, Kubo did not abandon Zombie powder, It was cancelled by the Weekly Shonen Jump. Then, Kubo submitted another story but then rejected. At last, Bleach the “Mala Suerte” for Kubo was approved after all of his previous works rejected many times, only implying that…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Isshin is a human...Shinigami is a JOB DESCRIPTION...it's not a species/race
Heh?!? I think you’re the first one I read who post something like that. It seems like your saying Isshin is just and also a substitute/ representative/ proxy shinigami.
Aren’t Ginjou the first substitute shinigami?
Aren’t Ginjou and Ichigo both having shinigami badge to represent their job?
Where does Isshin’s badge?
What was that piece of white houri that tie in Isshin’s right arm imply?
Why would Aizen say something “A child of human and…”?
Why AND? if Masaki and Isshin are just both human ?
Lord of Pendemonium, sometimes I find your conclusion contradicts to your whole idea. Careful next time or else you’ll end up like Kubo. Not kidding!

@ Chiisai Kuma – yay! to your post. Are you forgiven? I read your post last time in Image thread and I’m so worried about you. Whew! Thank goodness my parents aren’t like yours but eheh…I really have to do my best this finals for me to give time to watch the Hell movie since I’m very intrigue about that. The movie becomes an annoyance to them because i always whine to let me watch it. XD
__________________

Ichimaru Gin
rei_ayanami17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-25, 04:14   Link #78
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Rukia's gigai that Urahara created during the TBTP arc, would have turned her into a normal human. So it's further proof that Humans and Shinigami are the same species.
Did we need proof of that? We already knew human can become shinigami once they die, and on the rare occasion become shinigami whilst they're still alive. The problem isn't that the two might be different species. The problem is that one of them is physically dead. How can dead people create life?

Quote:
One just has flesh and the other is a spirit. I am willing to bet that gigai is the same one Isshin used to become a regular human and that is also why Kubo had Aizen say that to Rukia. Because it was foreshadowing of Isshin being a Shinigami. Because he does plan a lot of things...maybe not every detail but Kubo has shown over and over that a lot of things were planned and not just random shyte he pulled outta his azz
I'm...not convinced. The Gigai that Rukia used would've turned her into a human permanently and Isshin became a shinigami again eventually. And Isshin has already hinted that he learned the FGT which is a much stronger hint as to why he lost his powers in the first place.
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-25, 05:47   Link #79
haegar
mangaviking
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
The more interesting questions still remaining are why and how did Isshin use FGT - if he lost his powers that way. Not to mention the question in how far Isshin and Urahara worked together consciously to make Ichigo what he is now - or not
Kubo might or might not have thought about these things
__________________
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5008/kibatabisig2.png
haegar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-09-25, 05:57   Link #80
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Oh please. ¬____________¬
My caveat was "most of the time". There were always exceptions haha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Actually Bleach's ranks have gone up since the chapter everyone went all Stepford on Ichigo BEFORE Rukia's return. Her Return really made them soar and the past few weeks it's been in the top 5.
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to call BS on that one. The last time BLEACH cracked the top 5 was with the 2011 Issue 19 of Shonen Jump (Chapter 444 where Ichigo looked like he'd gotten his shinigami powers back) and it was ranked 4th. Since then it's hovered pretty steadily between 8-12th ranking. Feel free to check the rankings yourself here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
it's true though, i still read bleach because i've been reading it for so long and i actually thought that kubo was ending the series with the aizen war so i figured i should be there when it happens. imagine my surprise when it didn't end! but i guess you're right, i complain because i used to care for this manga and i still care somewhat whether i like it or not. but i'd rather have him end the series when it's still readable than have him just abandon it like he did with zombie powder. that manga had some potential too. too bad he chose to abandon it like that.
You're not the only one. This seems to be the general consensus, at least from the people I've chatted with in Japan. It's kind of sad. If he just abandons it I'll be legit annoyed. At least have the courtesy to wrap it up, even if it's half-assed. I mean Rumiko Takahashi was able to do that.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )

Last edited by Langus; 2011-09-25 at 06:11.
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.