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Old 2014-09-03, 05:07   Link #1
Nayim
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Pixiv and various Japanese fanart website - When they found it their arts reposted.

I don't know if this sounds like a very bad news or not but I want to address something important especially when it comes someone who always reposts fanart without source, permission or etc.

Also, I don't know if this topic fits in this section or not. If anyone want to move this topic in different section, please do so.

Alright, please read this first:

http://raspomme.tumblr.com/post/69226532697

and then:

http://raspomme.tumblr.com/post/68028153710


Okay, what is problem here?

Apparently I talked to one of my friends from Japan, obviously, told me that many Pixiv artists already found out that several website reposted fanart without source/trace/edit and whatsoever in mostly Tumblr, Deviantart and so on. But what caught my attention is that Pixiv/Tegaki/Drawr found this website and yes, you guess it They were not happy when nobody link the source, credit it nor without permission.

First of all, I'm not making this up, this was actually happened after I discussed with many Pixiv artists (Yes, I have Pixiv account) yesterday. I was kinda surprised that Japanese artists found it this website, I thought people used to ignore it because "it just general anime topic" or whatever until someone spots their arts in this website.

However, there is an exception, as long as you credit them/source it/permission granted (If you have) to post in this website.

Before anyone asks me "You must be kidding", "you're lying" "since you can talk to Japanese artist" or something like that when I post this new thread. I tell the truth, I having fun time chat-chit with many Pixiv artists, here's the proof when I asked them for permission:

Spoiler for Pixiv permission:


Anyway, all I want to say is, please source it when you repost the fanart. I know people are tired of having this preached, but refusing to source is very disrespectful to the artists that have spent hours on what they make, is technically theft, and forces artists to remove or restrict their works and makes them apprehensive about uploading more. Well I just don't want to see Pixiv and various fanart website bad-mouth of this website. (Well at least Pixiv artists gives me an advice about repost).

It is also highly annoying to people that may want to see more works by a particular artist but can’t find who made it because the artist is not credited, and to people such as myself that want to see great artists given the respect they deserve.

Google Translate actually does a decent job here and a quick translate of their ‘Self Introduction’ should work. Look for lines that translate to something close to ‘Reprint is prohibited’ or ‘please do not reprint or redistribute without permission.

After looking for these, it is very highly preferred to ask permission to repost art. (Refer to first link for some tips for asking permission).

Forgive me about my bad English.
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Old 2014-09-03, 07:18   Link #2
mistress_kisara
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I think reposted 1-2 fanarts here before but yeah I realized it was not good thing to do

I think there are a lot of members here who repost fanart especially in the subforums of popular shows. And also I think people should not use avatars made from fanart unless you got permission to edit and repost the art.
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Old 2014-09-03, 08:25   Link #3
Cosmic Eagle
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I think it's always simple good politeness to provide the link to the original artist...

Is that even so hard? Just a simple copy/paste of a URL...


And it also helps people who want to follow the artist
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Old 2014-09-03, 09:38   Link #4
Nayim
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I was told by someone says several website forum updates new rules of copyright when it comes to fanmade. (I heard there was permanent-banned if you don't follow new rules, don't ask me).

So yeah, I wonder if admin/mods can take care of this forum because if this continue, this website get bad reputation. Just saying.
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Old 2014-09-03, 10:21   Link #5
O.D.
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Fanart repost sites (boorus, etc.) usually specify the source, but IMO you can't expect average forum/tumblr users to do the same. Keeping a record of hundreds/thousands of artists, as well as placing the source next to every uploaded picture is inconvenient for many. And even more inconvenient would be having to ask artists themselves for permission every time you use some of their fanart (in posts or for avatars/signatures).

Even if the source of a picture is not mentioned, people can nowadays easily search for the source themselves (Google Images, IQDB, simply asking someone who might be knowledgeable, etc.) so IMO this isn't really a problem.

A real problem would be if users claimed other people's work as their own, but fortunately the Internet has both written and unwritten rules to prevent that.
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Old 2014-09-03, 11:29   Link #6
Archon_Wing
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Yea, I can definitely understand it; it only takes a few minutes if not to credit the original artist.
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Old 2014-09-03, 11:43   Link #7
O.D.
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That's for a single image (or several from a single artist). But what if you post 10 images, all from different artists? How about 20? Or how about 100?

And what if you got the images from some random place, and you have no idea what the source is?

You'd end up wasting a lot of time on something that IMO is ultimately trivial.
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Old 2014-09-03, 12:15   Link #8
Konakaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayim View Post
I was told by someone says several website forum updates new rules of copyright when it comes to fanmade. (I heard there was permanent-banned if you don't follow new rules, don't ask me).

So yeah, I wonder if admin/mods can take care of this forum because if this continue, this website get bad reputation. Just saying.
Fanmade content is not licensed, copyrighted nor protected by any other law(s) thus not covered by current policies, so I don't see any reason AS would choose to enforce any such rules, this is my personally opinion, not an official comment from the staff though.

While it's good to be considerate, it isn't always practical for something like this.
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Old 2014-09-03, 12:44   Link #9
Nayim
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
Fanmade content is not licensed, copyrighted nor protected by any other law(s) thus not covered by current policies, so I don't see any reason AS would choose to enforce any such rules, this is my personally opinion, not an official comment from the staff though.

While it's good to be considerate, it isn't always practical for something like this.
Ah I see, I understand.

Well I think there is a good reason to post with source because I recall someone from popular anime sub-forum had problem with searching and can't find the source anymore due to artist deleted the site or moved new site after used Saucenao/Google Image Search.

Like what O.D said, this is kinda ultimately trivial.
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Old 2014-09-03, 15:30   Link #10
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistress_kisara View Post
I think reposted 1-2 fanarts here before but yeah I realized it was not good thing to do

I think there are a lot of members here who repost fanart especially in the subforums of popular shows. And also I think people should not use avatars made from fanart unless you got permission to edit and repost the art.
How do you know it is fanart though? I've done plenty of double takes when I realized it wasn't "official". It just looked that good.

The problem is, it's one thing if you are aware of where you are getting the image from and who made it (like an artist on Deviantart), but it's something else if you've discovered it on some random site or through a search engine.

With how much people post and repost images, and the huge culture of sharing that has sprung up in the social media era, "ownership" is not only difficult to attribute, but also difficult to prove.

Unfortunately, it's just not something we're going to try and enforce, unless the original owner objects and can prove they are the true owner. I could see them going to that effort if someone here was profiting or otherwise misrepresenting the work, but such cases are extremely rare.

So all that to say, it's a nice sentiment, but nothing is going to change on our end. Ownership on the internet has always been a murky landscape, unless you're a megacorp.
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Old 2014-09-03, 17:20   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayim View Post
I wonder if admin/mods can take care of this ...
No.

TL;DR…
However...
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2014-09-04, 09:44   Link #12
cyth
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I can't believe people still want to enforce such archaic approaches to content control.
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Old 2014-09-05, 01:52   Link #13
risingstar3110
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Basically i think internet works in "sources upon requests" rather than doing it like real world

But that's why materials in internet spread like wildfire. Because it don't have the same sort of restrictions off-line materials do (go through permissions to publish,/ republish). In some way, i will say artworks on internet is like private information. Once you get it up on the net, it is opened to public and no one will care if they had your permissions yet to pass along.


Of course i know where those fan-art artists got their annoyance from. But internet , man, you can't govern it
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Old 2014-09-05, 10:50   Link #14
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I can't believe people still want to enforce such archaic approaches to content control.
And I can't believe why anyone would object to PIXIV artists locking their profiles.

It's their work and their right.

Quote:
Basically i think internet works in "sources upon requests" rather than doing it like real world

But that's why materials in internet spread like wildfire. Because it don't have the same sort of restrictions off-line materials do (go through permissions to publish,/ republish). In some way, i will say artworks on internet is like private information. Once you get it up on the net, it is opened to public and no one will care if they had your permissions yet to pass along.


Of course i know where those fan-art artists got their annoyance from. But internet , man, you can't govern it
It's not permission so much as acknowledgement man....most of the time they don't even mention who the artist is
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Old 2014-09-05, 10:58   Link #15
cyth
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
And I can't believe why anyone would object to PIXIV artists locking their profiles.

It's their work and their right.
I don't care about those artists. Because I ultimately can't find info about them. Their loss. Or yours.
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Old 2014-09-05, 11:27   Link #16
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
And I can't believe why anyone would object to PIXIV artists locking their profiles.

It's their work and their right.

It's not permission so much as acknowledgement man....most of the time they don't even mention who the artist is
If it's just acknowledgement, then it is even harder to enforce.

Think whenever you take a picture of say a temple (or famous landmark)and post online, and have to acknowledge the one who designed and built it.... Or worse, have to ask for the chief name when you out for dinner and want to upload a picture of their dish on instagram
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Old 2014-09-05, 13:21   Link #17
Nayim
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Well, believe or not, when you take it and post it somewhere else without permission, not only will you make them very sad (not to mention angry) when they find out, but you could cause them some serious legal problems as well.

I am not lying. Artists are in danger of losing everything they have if distribution of their parody work gets out of hand and the original publishing company gets wind of it and decides to prosecute. Quite a few artists have already had their lives pretty much ruined because of the thoughtless actions of irresponsible reposter.

The reason why the doujinshi industry and sites like Pixiv are even allowed to exist is because of the implicit understanding that artists who make parodies will control and limit the circulation of their digital artwork, and that printed doujinshi will only be made available to a limited audience. When you take an artist’s work and upload it somewhere else, you are taking away that control, and putting them at risk.

Fanart, doujinshi, and anything related to culture art, are very serious business for artist community especially in Japan. Of course, this is a good reason why Comiket allowed to exist.

I'm not into doujinshi, but I enjoy fan works and I identify with not wanting to have it spread around randomly when that wasn't the intention (Unless there is a reason why to post it in the first place). I had it happen: Uploaded things to specific, a bit more private sites and then had it posted on a bunch of different sites without permission or credit. So I can just imagine how scary it must be for Japanese doujin makers.

Some people act horrible, some are more understanding, some agree, some don't care when it comes to topic of whether you decide to post fanart or something like that. That's just how it is.

Of course, this is just my point of view, so don't take it seriously.
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Old 2014-09-05, 13:46   Link #18
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Nayim View Post
because if this continue, this website get bad reputation. Just saying.
Yeah, I can see that happe... nah.
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Old 2014-09-05, 14:39   Link #19
cyth
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Originally Posted by Nayim View Post
I am not lying. Artists are in danger of losing everything they have if distribution of their parody work gets out of hand and the original publishing company gets wind of it and decides to prosecute. Quite a few artists have already had their lives pretty much ruined because of the thoughtless actions of irresponsible reposter.
Thoughtless actions of a reposter? Yes, let's shift all the blame on to reposters and not blame the people who made the works and distributed them initially. The people who made these works without permission are victims of baka gaijin.

Quote:
The reason why the doujinshi industry and sites like Pixiv are even allowed to exist is because of the implicit understanding that artists who make parodies will control and limit the circulation of their digital artwork, and that printed doujinshi will only be made available to a limited audience.
That is such a lie. There are companies out there that explicitly outline distribution of derivative works under certain conditions. It should be a given if no conditions have been laid out, either through official announcements, staff statements, or personally with permission, that people should assume they are stepping into an indisputably illegal territory of Japanese copyright law. A Pokemon circle can elect to sell an R18 doujinshi, but then reposters are somehow at fault when the creators get arrested? Was it not the original circle that chose to blatantly misrepresent Pokemon's brand with sexually explicit scenes?

Quote:
I had it happen: Uploaded things to specific, a bit more private sites and then had it posted on a bunch of different sites without permission or credit. So I can just imagine how scary it must be for Japanese doujin makers.
News flash: you're part of the problem too.

Quote:
Of course, this is just my point of view, so don't take it seriously.
I will take it seriously, because too many children are spreading false information about the legality and acceptability of such practices. It's not enough that artists most of the time don't bother getting permission to make and distribute derivative works from the original creators, they have the nerve to claim credit (sometimes money) for it. Now you're saying they do it under the noble banner of "if you redistribute work, you're actually putting us in harms way?" That's the most self-centered, egotistic thing I've heard in a long while and I hope most fan artists don't think that way.
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Old 2014-09-05, 22:46   Link #20
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayim View Post
Well, believe or not, when you take it and post it somewhere else without permission, not only will you make them very sad (not to mention angry) when they find out, but you could cause them some serious legal problems as well.

I am not lying. Artists are in danger of losing everything they have if distribution of their parody work gets out of hand and the original publishing company gets wind of it and decides to prosecute. Quite a few artists have already had their lives pretty much ruined because of the thoughtless actions of irresponsible reposter.

The reason why the doujinshi industry and sites like Pixiv are even allowed to exist is because of the implicit understanding that artists who make parodies will control and limit the circulation of their digital artwork, and that printed doujinshi will only be made available to a limited audience. When you take an artist’s work and upload it somewhere else, you are taking away that control, and putting them at risk.

Fanart, doujinshi, and anything related to culture art, are very serious business for artist community especially in Japan. Of course, this is a good reason why Comiket allowed to exist.

I'm not into doujinshi, but I enjoy fan works and I identify with not wanting to have it spread around randomly when that wasn't the intention (Unless there is a reason why to post it in the first place). I had it happen: Uploaded things to specific, a bit more private sites and then had it posted on a bunch of different sites without permission or credit. So I can just imagine how scary it must be for Japanese doujin makers.

Some people act horrible, some are more understanding, some agree, some don't care when it comes to topic of whether you decide to post fanart or something like that. That's just how it is.

Of course, this is just my point of view, so don't take it seriously.
Like i said before. It's already part of the internet, we can't do anything about it.

It's a bit like private information in internet. Sometimes you want to share your rl story. But there is nothing to ensure that it will not be taken off without your permission and post elsewhere.


Maybe instead of thinking about changing internet, someone should design a signature-coding program to put in the artist signature for every fan art they drew. Maybe instead of png and img file, a file file that whenever you hover your mouse over the picture, it will show the name of the artist (and trivial information). The only way really
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