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Old 2012-06-11, 15:14   Link #241
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Technically, when he invokes "Enuma Elish", Ea is obligated to fire its maximal attack.

Spoiler:
Nope. It depends of how it charges beforehand. Like Excalibur output.
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Old 2012-06-11, 20:42   Link #242
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Originally Posted by Ddraig View Post
I wonder if Saber will show us Avalon in Fate Zero.
She won't, because we already know from Fate/stay night that she will never know that Avalon still existed.
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Old 2012-06-12, 00:58   Link #243
Klashikari
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Speaking of Avalon, I still don't get why Kiritsugu asked Iri not to disclose its existence to Saber, unless he really wants Saber to stick with Iri, making the former think the latter is defenseless.
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Old 2012-06-12, 01:09   Link #244
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Speaking of Avalon, I still don't get why Kiritsugu asked Iri not to disclose its existence to Saber, unless he really wants Saber to stick with Iri, making the former think the latter is defenseless.
From what we know, Kiritsugu kept Saber out of the loop simply because he didn't trust her to stick to his plans. Considering just how much of an asset Avalon is, he simply didn't think that she would be able to keep it a secret from other people if she knew about it. Keeping it in Irisviel and keeping her around Saber would provide the benefits of the artifact while keeping it hidden from everyone else.
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Old 2012-06-12, 01:10   Link #245
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Hmm. I guess it is plainly the good ol' "To fool your enemies, you must first fool your allies.", although Saber can't exactly be considered as ally either for Kiritsugu, especially considering their respective actions
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Old 2012-06-12, 01:19   Link #246
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Hmm. I guess it is plainly the good ol' "To fool your enemies, you must first fool your allies.", although Saber can't exactly be considered as ally either for Kiritsugu, especially considering their respective actions
For somebody to consider one an ally, they need to at least consider them somewhat human first. Saber would be overjoyed if Kiritsugu that high of an opinion of her.

Not that her opinion matters though, since he can plan around that anyway.
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Old 2012-06-12, 01:40   Link #247
mAc Chaos
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The communication lines on their team broke down a long time ago. Everything is falling apart.

But keep in mind that Saber let Lancer go rescue Kayneth while Kiritsugu was there, alone. Saber left him at the mercy of the enemy Servant. If Lancer wanted he could have skewered him right there and then.
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Old 2012-06-12, 02:25   Link #248
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Because Kiritsugu is an idiot. If he had bothered to actually considered Saber, a lot of the crap that happened wouldn't have taken place at all.
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Old 2012-06-12, 07:00   Link #249
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Because Kiritsugu is an idiot. If he had bothered to actually considered Saber, a lot of the crap that happened wouldn't have taken place at all.
There's really only one situation in the series where Kiritsugu talking to Saber would've made any significant change, and that's the final day before Kirei sends out the flares.

The whole Lancer team situation would've been a fusebreaker even if Kiritsugu bothered to talk to Saber. Saber's idealism would never approve of Kiritsugu's methods even if he told her about it, and Kiritsugu would eventually end up doing those kinds of things anyway.
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Old 2012-06-12, 07:21   Link #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
The communication lines on their team broke down a long time ago. Everything is falling apart.
Their team's communication line never really existed. It broke down as early as episode 2, where Iri flat out tells Saber that Kiritsugu has already stopped trying to work with her.
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Old 2012-06-12, 08:01   Link #251
Touko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
For somebody to consider one an ally, they need to at least consider them somewhat human first. Saber would be overjoyed if Kiritsugu that high of an opinion of her.

Not that her opinion matters though, since he can plan around that anyway.
Well, it works if your ally is not dumb as nails.

Sabre would be like "Lancer, as Knights, we fight with chivalric honour. You broke your spear, let me snap my Avalon, so we can fight fair and square."
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Old 2012-06-12, 12:15   Link #252
mAc Chaos
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UBW + Kiritsugu ~> salvation
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Old 2012-06-12, 12:17   Link #253
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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
Archer gets his belief in the nobility of the ideal renewed, and Shirou doesn't lose faith in the face of the hardship ahead.
Becoming Archer is exactly stepping on Kiritsugu's dying wish. He was comforted by Shirou's innocent aspiration, but only for that moment. He didn't want him to suffer the same fate. Archer realizing he did nothing wrong is AGAINST Kiritsugu's dreams. He not knowing what's wrong with that is naive.

Also, Kiritsugu's answer was similar to HF answer, only he lost it all before realizing it which made him a broken shell of a man.

Shirou in HF is in Kiritsugu's shoes, a successful one: he stick to save everyone, but also minding his own happiness. Hence why a bad ending is literally becoming Kiritsugu.
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Old 2012-06-12, 13:09   Link #254
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