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Old 2011-11-29, 10:34   Link #161
Key Board
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He's good with machines and repairs
he can trace them at a glance and immediately know what is wrong.
Remember when he traced Issei's broken TV? He could see the internal blueprints.

In fact, this is one of the reasons why is able to do UBW.
Being able to recreate legendary weapons is phenomenal.
But being able to understand its history and composition just by looking at it, is just as crazy.

It's never confirmed, but Shirou was probably had some kind of mystic eye trait.

So in theory he can reproduce a gun.
But that wouldn't do any good because to my knowledge there are no noble phantasm guns.

Could he make a mystic code like Kiritsugu's Thompson?
I'm guessing he could, but those bullets are made from Kiritisugu's spine, and in order to make those special bullets, Shirou needs one of those.
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Old 2011-11-29, 12:10   Link #162
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
He's good with machines and repairs
he can trace them at a glance and immediately know what is wrong.
Remember when he traced Issei's broken TV? He could see the internal blueprints.

In fact, this is one of the reasons why is able to do UBW.
Being able to recreate legendary weapons is phenomenal.
But being able to understand its history and composition just by looking at it, is just as crazy.

It's never confirmed, but Shirou was probably had some kind of mystic eye trait.

So in theory he can reproduce a gun.
But that wouldn't do any good because to my knowledge there are no noble phantasm guns.

Could he make a mystic code like Kiritsugu's Thompson?
I'm guessing he could, but those bullets are made from Kiritisugu's spine, and in order to make those special bullets, Shirou needs one of those.
Shirou has no mystic eyes. His ability to completely replicate swords (and other objects) comes from his UBW.
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Old 2011-11-30, 23:40   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Goddess Madoka View Post
...what about Rho Aias? Not a sword, but a bronze shield. Surely for that to actually work and defend against Gilga's assault would require some complexity.
But then again, it does cost 3x the mana usually required for a sword-based noble phantasm...
It's said in the game text that if he projects something that is not a sword (blade weapons), it will take three times more mana for him to do so.
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Old 2011-12-01, 01:54   Link #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Could he make a mystic code like Kiritsugu's Thompson?
I'm guessing he could, but those bullets are made from Kiritisugu's spine, and in order to make those special bullets, Shirou needs one of those.

Also, just to nitpick, the bullets are made from his ribs not his spine :x

Which makes me wonder a little bit, if Shirou has the origin of 'Sword,' if he were to use the same technique, would that cause swords to start spawning from whoever he shot? @_@
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Old 2011-12-01, 02:08   Link #165
Kokukirin
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Also, just to nitpick, the bullets are made from his ribs not his spine :x

Which makes me wonder a little bit, if Shirou has the origin of 'Sword,' if he were to use the same technique, would that cause swords to start spawning from whoever he shot? @_@
It might do just that. In HF route Archer's UBW slowly ate into him and turned his body into swords. If left unchecked Shirou would have been impaled by countless swords from his body. But then hitting one with bullet is quite far off from fusing with the whole arm. So may be...smaller swords?
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Old 2011-12-02, 11:25   Link #166
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or he could use his origin to make NP sword and fire them like bullets... like what Archer already is doing..
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Old 2011-12-02, 11:37   Link #167
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Yeah, a bullet that spawns swords upon hitting isn't really that useful. Might as well use hollowpoints or explosive bullets.

All of which is far outclasses by Noble Phantasm Bullets.
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:01   Link #168
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I still think the biggest reason that Iskander doesn't like Saber is that she wants to regret and erase her past. He came across as the type of person who accepts the mistakes and the pain, and move forward instead of dwelling in the past. If Saber is willing to move on and use the Grail for something else instead of fixing her past, then I wouldn't think Rider would have annoyed to this extent.

similar theme was explored in Madoka as well.
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:23   Link #169
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I still think the biggest reason that Iskander doesn't like Saber is that she wants to regret and erase her past. He came across as the type of person who accepts the mistakes and the pain, and move forward instead of dwelling in the past. If Saber is willing to move on and use the Grail for something else instead of fixing her past, then I wouldn't think Rider would have annoyed to this extent.

similar theme was explored in Madoka as well.
This. I think this was the first, and biggest problem that Iskander had, that Saber regretted what she had done and wanted to erase/redo the past.

And honestly/amusingly enough, pretty much the exact same point is brought up in Fate/Stay Night by Emiya Shirou, only this time Saber listens to it, and thus changes her entire mindset.

Rider: 'Never regret your past'
Saber: 'But Britain!'
Shirou: 'Never regret your past'
Saber: 'Okay'

Although to be fair, Rider is an enemy who's only encountered Saber a few times while Shirou was her master/ally who lived with her for a few days or so, but like I mentioned, it always did amuse/irk me somewhat how what Rider and Shirou tell Saber are basically the same thing, if only Saber listened/understood Rider's words during the banquet, so much could have been avoided.

Although that's debatable whether that'd be a good or bad thing
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:27   Link #170
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The difference is she sees her own life story playing out right in front of her in Shirou and how he tackles and deals with it.
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:27   Link #171
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Although to be fair, Rider is an enemy who's only encountered Saber a few times while Shirou was her master/ally who lived with her for a few days or so, but like I mentioned, it always did amuse/irk me somewhat how what Rider and Shirou tell Saber are basically the same thing, if only Saber listened/understood Rider's words during the banquet, so much could have been avoided.
the biggest difference: Shirou banged Saber.

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Old 2011-12-12, 03:52   Link #172
orangejuicetang
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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
The difference is she sees her own life story playing out right in front of her in Shirou and how he tackles and deals with it.
You mean Archer.
Spoiler for just in case:

Spoiler for more elaborate/detailed response/explanation:



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
the biggest difference: Shirou banged Saber.

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Old 2011-12-12, 04:09   Link #173
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
You mean Archer.
Spoiler for just in case:

[spoiler=more elaborate/detailed response/explanation]
To elaborate: while there may be some similarities between Fate Shirou and Saber's life, it's really Archer's life which closest mirrors Saber's own, as we see in UBW. The thing is, we just don't see enough of Shirou's life in Fate to make a call like 'oh, it mirrors Saber's life exactly', but we get a good look at Archer's life through a few flashbacks via Rin's dreams in UBW. This is why Saber's unable to completely refute Archer's accusations and words: she sees too much of herself in him.

Take a look at the two of them. Saber strived to become her vision of an ideal king, EMIYA strived to become his vision on an ideal 'superhero'. They both 'reached' their vision, and worked selflessly for others. Because they both worked selflessly for others, they were both never understood by other people, but still, it was enough for those two to just selflessly help others. They both did things 'for the greater good', sacrificing the few to save the many. And in the end, this lack of understanding came back to bite them in the ass, EMIYA being betrayed and killed by somebody he saved, and the whole civil war ravaging Arturia's country. And thus, they both now seek to rewrite history, basically erasing themselves out of existence.

That's why, iirc, Saber couldn't finish her statement in UBW which went something like 'you became your ideal vision of a superhero, so why do you...' but can't finish with something like 'want to erase yourself so badly'. Because, it's the same for Saber. She became her ideal vision of a king, but at the end of it, regretted it, and wants to erase what she did.

And in the True Ending, Saber reaches the same conclusion as she did in Fate, and some of my favorite lines of the game.
It's not the right place to discuss this, but while it's true Fate doesn't encompass everything that needed to be, the readers need to take the combined story that was presented to us into the context of each individual route.

Spoiler for stuff:
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Old 2011-12-12, 05:20   Link #174
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
the biggest difference: Shirou banged Saber.

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Rider should have given her a lion plushie as a part of his compelling argument.

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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
okay then
Basically, the descendants of invaders she fought so hard against, usurped the lands, slain her people and drove them to a corner. Those are doing really well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
It's not the right place to discuss this, but while it's true Fate doesn't encompass everything that needed to be, the readers need to take the combined story that was presented to us into the context of each individual route.

Spoiler for stuff:
Spoiler for Shirou...:
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-12-12 at 05:30.
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Old 2011-12-12, 06:10   Link #175
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Spoiler for Shirou...:
I don't mean the choice per say, but where Shirou takes that choice into his future.

Archer was an existence defined by how he interpretated an ideal, and the choices he made in hi s life in pursuit of it since youth. His story was a story of a journey.

We don't exactly see where the choices that Shirou made in each route actually lead him in life after the end of the story told to us.
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Old 2011-12-12, 07:08   Link #176
giorno
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we do know that none of FSN shirous will become archer though
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Old 2011-12-12, 13:23   Link #177
mAc Chaos
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
You mean Archer.
Well, I meant actually Shirou, in the Fate route, because he's so self-sacrificial and the way he refuses to budge from his ideals. She mentions it herself. Shirou has his own disaster that he could have used the Grail to erase; the fire from his childhood.
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Old 2011-12-13, 19:54   Link #178
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Originally Posted by giorno View Post
we do know that none of FSN shirous will become archer though
Fate Shirou would have became Archer. Illya's death post F/SN is one of the key factors in him turning down the road to becoming Archer.
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Old 2011-12-13, 20:09   Link #179
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Fate Shirou would have became Archer. Illya's death post F/SN is one of the key factors in him turning down the road to becoming Archer.
Fate!Shirou is the closest Shirou towards becoming Archer. It didn't mean he actually becomes that particular Archer.

Last Episode tells it pretty well visually with what was probably Fate!Shirou's UBW.

It looks almost identical to Archer's, but there was a definite difference.
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Old 2011-12-14, 02:43   Link #180
Thess
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Fate!Shirou is the closest Shirou towards becoming Archer. It didn't mean he actually becomes that particular Archer.

Last Episode tells it pretty well visually with what was probably Fate!Shirou's UBW.

It looks almost identical to Archer's, but there was a definite difference.
Last Episode wasn't tackled on until later and only exists outside the PC original name, so we can consider it an AU not particularly linked to Fate, UBW or HF, but another route or chain of events (like Hollow/Ataraxia).

I don't remember this clearly, but wasn't Archer come from a timeline he wasn't romantically attached to Saber or Rin? (I'm betting Illya route?). Sakura route makes him forsake the path for a greater sense of happiness, so he's the only one 100% safe.
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