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Old 2011-10-14, 15:47   Link #41
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
^ That's what I'm hoping will be the case, but it's becoming increasingly more unlikely as the chapters progress. Let's not forget that Zoro isn't even taking the fight seriously, so Hyouzou is going to have to pull off something extraordinary to even somewhat make the fight more even.

That's why I'm being patient before I judge Hyouzou's strength. And as I said before, we still haven't even seen him use poison since his encounter with Luffy, so there's a very good chance that he's still holding back some special skills. We all know that he'll inevitably get thrashed in the end anyhow, but I still think there's a chance that he may actually force Zoro to push himself a bit before finishing him off.....




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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
umm... I cant say that the fights in this arc are dissapointing at all...


I think you misunderstood me somewhat. I'm actually enjoying the battles so far as well, but I would be disappointed if things were too easy for Luffy and co. That's actually why I like how Hody brought the fight to the ocean to give him more of an advantage (sure, he's still getting smacked around silly, but at least he's very much still in the game, right? ). And who knows what crazy tricks Daruma and Zeo have in store for Usopp and Brooke, for instance. But I just hope that the battles are over when they've barely begun.....
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Old 2011-10-14, 18:28   Link #42
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Hmm, I think it's OK for the Straw Hats to look overpowered... I mean, they've trained 2 years, more than they've been on the Grand Line, and that should've brought them way over the level of the NFP, even with their ES pills. They'll get their challenge when they resurface - isn't the new Marine HQ there?
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Old 2011-10-14, 23:13   Link #43
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Hmm, I think it's OK for the Straw Hats to look overpowered... I mean, they've trained 2 years, more than they've been on the Grand Line, and that should've brought them way over the level of the NFP, even with their ES pills. They'll get their challenge when they resurface - isn't the new Marine HQ there?
I don't mind at all that the strawhats make the NFP look like jokes, for like you said 2 years of training warrants such a massive increase in power. But my issue is that if the enemies in this arc don't pose a serious threat, why is Oda taking so long to move the story forward (I know I'm not the only one who feels this way)? Don't get me wrong, I really like this arc, but admittedly there have been issues with the pacing lately. Some things could have been executed more quickly.
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Old 2011-10-15, 06:29   Link #44
randomlex
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I don't mind at all that the strawhats make the NFP look like jokes, for like you said 2 years of training warrants such a massive increase in power. But my issue is that if the enemies in this arc don't pose a serious threat, why is Oda taking so long to move the story forward (I know I'm not the only one who feels this way)? Don't get me wrong, I really like this arc, but admittedly there have been issues with the pacing lately. Some things could have been executed more quickly.
That's true, it does feel a bit slow paced... I don't know, maybe Oda's still deciding what to do next...
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Old 2011-10-15, 10:35   Link #45
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Really, the only pacing issues I've had during this storyline was during Jinbei's flashback (more specifically, the half of it that focused on Fisher Tiger..... it felt a bit rushed at some points). The rest I'm okay with, pretty much. I guess the battle might feel longer to some because we're shifting back and forth between the individual fights of the main cast, but I'd say the pacing is a lot smoother here than it was compared to Enies Lobby (which DID drag at certain points).



Actually, the only slight regret I've had so far with the storyline (aside from the flashback thing) is that I kinda wished we saw Luffy and co. explore the island a bit more. I mean, yeah we got to see the mermaid beach, the cafe, and the royal palace and so forth, but we still haven't seen the merman karate dojo that Hachi mentioned before the skip, nor have we seen the inside of Big Mom's candy factory. And now that there's a chance that the island may get destroyed, we may never actually get a chance to explore those places......
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Old 2011-10-15, 11:12   Link #46
Hisoka??
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
There's no reason why we should believe this notion. Regardless of whether or not it's the first time Hyouzou has taken the pills, his physical stats are boosted nonetheless. Kaku also had to get used to his giraffe zoan DF, but that inexperience had no negative effects on his stats.

Also, I find it unlikely that Oda would make Hyouzou the anomaly amongst his peers. By that, I mean that the other strawhats aren't being challenged by their respective opponents, so why should Zoro be the only one who's given an opponent comparable to him? All the more reason to believe that Hyouzou will be going down soon as well.
Actually Kaku had problems with his abilities initially and only really got serious/better at the end.

That said, I really don't expect hyouzou to be that much of challenge to Zorro, just putting up the theory that this may not have been all he is capable of.
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Old 2011-10-15, 12:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
but we still haven't seen the merman karate dojo that Hachi mentioned before the skip, nor have we seen the inside of Big Mom's candy factory. And now that there's a chance that the island may get destroyed, we may never actually get a chance to explore those places......

someone email oda before he forgot this hehe,


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Originally Posted by randomlex View Post
They'll get their challenge when they resurface - isn't the new Marine HQ there?
yeah, expect serious opponents in the next Arc, since this arc is only the beginning of their 2 years training outcome....

NFP are about the same level of CP9... or even weaker
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:43   Link #48
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I don't understand how are you able to make any guesses as to how strong NFP are compared to CP9, or any other pre-time skip opponents. The only comparable fight the SH's have had after the time skip was when they fought the two Pacifistas, but from that fight alone it is still next to impossible to compare NFP to CP9.
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Old 2011-10-15, 19:35   Link #49
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Not saying they are the same strength either but...I would actually love to see NFP vs CP9...
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Old 2011-10-16, 00:07   Link #50
yakumo-chan
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I don't understand how are you able to make any guesses as to how strong NFP are compared to CP9, or any other pre-time skip opponents. The only comparable fight the SH's have had after the time skip was when they fought the two Pacifistas, but from that fight alone it is still next to impossible to compare NFP to CP9.
just saying that we wouldnt see any serious fight in this arc, except 1 of the yonkou appears or whatever,
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:20   Link #51
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Eh, I doubt Luffy and Co. would be able to defeat a Yonkou at this point. It would probably be a repeat of the Aokiji fight albeit with a much stronger chance but still. Oda might throw one in though, to show just how much the SH still have to go.
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Old 2011-10-17, 09:53   Link #52
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That's why I'm being patient before I judge Hyouzou's strength. And as I said before, we still haven't even seen him use poison since his encounter with Luffy, so there's a very good chance that he's still holding back some special skills. We all know that he'll inevitably get thrashed in the end anyhow, but I still think there's a chance that he may actually force Zoro to push himself a bit before finishing him off.....
Lets look at a Zoro vs Magellen fight compared to a Luffy vs Magellen fight.

Now what is the difference between Zoro attacking magellen and Luffy attacking magellen. When Luffy attacks him, he has to PHYSICALLY touch him and thus gets poisoned. When Zoro attacks only his SWORDS touch magellen and thus he does not get poisoned.

Now we dont' know how exactly Hyozou poisoned luffy, but I'm going to assume it was through his tentacle legs he released the poison and hit luffy with it. So in order to poison Zoro Hyouzou has to have his legs touch zoro physically. What is the one major problem you guys see in that? Oh yea, Zoro just cut 9 swords vertially in half, what are the chances of a tentacle getting close enough to touch zoro. Most likely he will cut off any limbs that get that close.
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Old 2011-10-17, 10:59   Link #53
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^How do you know that his poison comes from his tentacles only? He could be capable of spreading his poison with long range/projectile attacks not unlike Magellan. In fact, Mags isn't a good comparison either precisely BECAUSE his DF allowed him to utilize attacks with a large AOE (recall that it only took ONE attack from him in order to poison Blackbeard's entire crew). So again, I think it would still be a bit premature to underestimate Hyouzou just because Zoro seems to have the upper hand so far. His venomous body can easily grant him the opportunity to turn the whole fight around in a heartbeat......



Oh, and now to make a (zany) prediction for the next chapter: It will be revealed that the Hody that Luffy's currently isn't the true Hody Jones, as the real one will appear at the end of the chapter as a zombie that was reanimated by Moria (who will appear alongside the zombie, completely wrapped in bandages).
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Old 2011-10-17, 11:40   Link #54
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^How do you know that his poison comes from his tentacles only? He could be capable of spreading his poison with long range/projectile attacks not unlike Magellan. In fact, Mags isn't a good comparison either precisely BECAUSE his DF allowed him to utilize attacks with a large AOE (recall that it only took ONE attack from him in order to poison Blackbeard's entire crew). So again, I think it would still be a bit premature to underestimate Hyouzou just because Zoro seems to have the upper hand so far. His venomous body can easily grant him the opportunity to turn the whole fight around in a heartbeat......



Oh, and now to make a (zany) prediction for the next chapter: It will be revealed that the Hody that Luffy's currently isn't the true Hody Jones, as the real one will appear at the end of the chapter as a zombie that was reanimated by Moria (who will appear alongside the zombie, completely wrapped in bandages).

Actually not that bad an example, assuming they are not able to somehow dodge the AOE and are also able to avoid/deflect projectiles/ range attacks. Luffy based on his fighting style still has to "touch" Magallen and therefore get poisoned by touch while Zorro doesn't need to because he is using a stick/sword.


Besides, Zorro is the better choice quite simply because he has strong range attacks while Luffy doesn't, so even AOE and airborne poisons have lesser chance to hit him. Or at least based on what has been depicted. But of course, if Luffy is now really immune to poison, it would be another case.

Arguably Ussop would be the best choice, but so far his attacks still aren't that strong. Even his new seed attacks don't seem that strong and let's not forget that plants = living things and meeting poison/ acid = gg. And Magallen has quite a slick poison armour.
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Old 2011-10-17, 12:45   Link #55
randomlex
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Maybe Luffy learned some ranged attacks of his own in the two years... I mean, Zoro has them, Jinbe too, and it would be beneficial to Luffy to be able to attack without having to touch the opponent - would've saved him from Magellan, too, probably...
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Old 2011-10-17, 13:41   Link #56
Simonsy
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I had forgot zoro had ranged attacks even. Now I'm not trying to say if Zoro fought Magellen he would have won, because I don't believe he had a chance in hell against Magellen. I also don't believe that if Luffy had ranged attacks he would have won. Still think that even if he were immune to poisons back then he still might now even have won. Magellen was a strong person.

All I'm trying to say is that if Hyouzou hasn't poisoned Zoro yet, I have a hard time believing he will be able to in the future. I dont' see Hyozou having some of the versitility in the poison attacks that magellen had. He will most likely just have one method, and only one poison, WHICH due to Luffy being poisoned already and Chopper already seeing it the whole crew may have already taken an antidote or have said antidote on person in case.

Face it, this arc the strawhats are the TOP DOG, and there isn't going to be some epic battle like cp9.
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Old 2011-10-17, 14:07   Link #57
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Besides, Zorro is the better choice quite simply because he has strong range attacks while Luffy doesn't, so even AOE and airborne poisons have lesser chance to hit him. Or at least based on what has been depicted. But of course, if Luffy is now really immune to poison, it would be another case.

While Zoro most certainly does have ranged attacks of his own, there's still the question of exactly how he can defend himself against a poison assault. He doesn't seem to be as fast or agile as Luffy and Sanji, and whether or not CoA Haki can defend against poison is still up in the air at the moment. And frankly, I'm rather unsure of that being the case since we saw how Magellan's Hell's Judgement had rendered Mr. 3's wax armor useless during Luffy's rematch with him at ID (I'm not saying that Hyouzou's poison is at the same level as Mags', but it's pretty likely to be pretty darn close, at least).


Really, the only method I can think of for Zoro to defend against poison (aside from becoming a more nimble fighter) would be for him to pull that wacky "mist transformation" stunt he pulled with Kaku at EL, but we don't really know if Asura is capable of a feat like that.....



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Originally Posted by Simonsy View Post
Face it, this arc the strawhats are the TOP DOG, and there isn't going to be some epic battle like cp9.

I never denied that. I'm just saying that I don't think this battle will be as completely one-sided as some people are making it out to be. Of course Luffy and co. will inevitably destroy Hody's crew, but I just doubt they'll accomplish it without getting a few cuts and scratches in the mix, y'know?
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Old 2011-10-17, 14:55   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Hisoka?? View Post
Besides, Zorro is the better choice quite simply because he has strong range attacks while Luffy doesn't, so even AOE and airborne poisons have lesser chance to hit him. Or at least based on what has been depicted. But of course, if Luffy is now really immune to poison, it would be another case.
Technically, Luffy has the greatest range technique in the crew: King's Haki. .

But, if range is the issue, then Usopp needs to step in since he, and partially Franky and Nami, is the only true ranged fighter in the group.
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:16   Link #59
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Bah! This fight with Magellan will probably never occurs, anyway.
It's highly probable he was killed and absorbed by Blackbeard when he came back from the level 6. The current Magellan is probably Bon-chan. The soldiers stated back at that time Magellan was found "defeated and in critical condition". As strong as Bon-chan is, there's no way he could have done this the Impel Down Boss. So, something definitely happened. And Mr 2 seized the opportunity to get treatment and a new life.

So, back on this arc, the SH have clearly the upper hand.
But there's still Caribou around. He's like a T1000, so he might be deadly to any non-haki user. Using mermaid hostages will also make him able to take down Sanji... or piss him to a whole new level.
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Old 2011-10-17, 16:03   Link #60
randomlex
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That would be nice - it was actually weird how his death was kinda brushed aside (or so it seemed to me), plus, no body, no proof
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Bah! This fight with Magellan will probably never occurs, anyway.
It's highly probable he was killed and absorbed by Blackbeard when he came back from the level 6. The current Magellan is probably Bon-chan. The soldiers stated back at that time Magellan was found "defeated and in critical condition". As strong as Bon-chan is, there's no way he could have done this the Impel Down Boss. So, something definitely happened. And Mr 2 seized the opportunity to get treatment and a new life.

So, back on this arc, the SH have clearly the upper hand.
But there's still Caribou around. He's like a T1000, so he might be deadly to any non-haki user. Using mermaid hostages will also make him able to take down Sanji... or piss him to a whole new level.
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