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Old 2011-10-14, 05:30   Link #61
Alchemist007
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I know I said it already, but everyone present vs Ichigo would be really fun to see. Then he runs away with his new powers being for naught against his friends. Then he has his previously brainwashed friends and Urahara/dad to concoct new schemes.
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Old 2011-10-14, 11:31   Link #62
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poor bleach.....the arc started out so awesome......fresh...new...going places.....and then it reverted back to the same ol....introduce a character and have a captain ruin them, one at a time..one chapter at a time.
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Old 2011-10-15, 12:38   Link #63
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It's hardly character development. We're just seeing these guys doing the same things over and over again with their opponents. That's not character development, it's called being lazy.
Are you for real?!

They're not doing the same things over and over again

Hitsu actually used his brains in a fight instead of blindly rushing in like he usually does (did this against Aizen twice) and won a fight with his brains and not some random move that he pulled outta of his ass

Byakuya actually wants to protect "bonds" of nakama. Byakuya...

Renji is cool and laid-back when he's much the same as Ichigo and usually just charges in

Yamaji actually bended a rule...
When Ikkaku first met Zaraki he wanted to die for a stupid reason...because he lost. He's come a long way, and that's clear in the speech he delivered to Shisho..or whatever the hell his name is

Kubo is showing you how contact with Ichigo has made an impact on the Shinigami. How they matured in these 17 months. Kubo is not being lazy, you're so used to bashing him you don't even make an effort to try and understand him. Because everything is not stated outright--- like other mangas and you ("you" being a generalization and not you personally) actually have to think about it.

This is my beef with the entire Bleach fandom because they complain and nit pick every goddamn thing Kubo does and seldom put any thought into the chapters before they start to shit on Kubo.

Think about it. Every fight is not a fight just for fight's sake. There is an actual point to all of this but people don't seem to get it.

@ Sabu Kyu...it's not a retcon. Inserting himself into people's and objects pasts has always been his powers. He doesn't change the past he can insert himself in it and use it to his advantage.

@ Ronin Mayel --OP is the most boring piece of crap ever and...Luffy wants to be the pirate king. Plot is simple, the characters are simple. I truly fail to understand why it's so popular and the characters are the ugliest characters I have ever seen--barring Spongebob.. I just can't get into it and I really hate the way Oda draws his battle scenes. I like the fights A LOT so it turns me off..that and it's boring and the characters are so damn ugly...so I can't read it...I couldn't make it past 30 chapters and that was hard to do. I was bored to tears. but it's a matter of taste. I think it's crap but that doesn't mean it is crap. Hell I think Bleach is a masterpiece but I am one of the few people you will ever meet that thinks like that. To each his own...
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:05   Link #64
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Spoiler for off-topic ^^:
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Old 2011-10-16, 05:13   Link #65
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^ Lawls LoP's got a point though, Ikkaku even volunteered to use his full power to bring down Mr. Knuckles and the commander sees rules in a less absolute manner. The rest didn't change though, Toushiro doesn't know Yukio, but if he did I bet you mah cookies he'd ROOOOOAR and charge in like usual, and Byakuya had always been one to protect bonds - remember Hisana? He just shifted from lost love to newfound friendship. Renji knows how to let his fans down :P
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Sabu Kyu...it's not a retcon. Inserting himself into people's and objects pasts has always been his powers.
Actually, inserting yourself into the memories of an object is ridiculous, but it does follow the pantheistic nature of fullbringers manipulating the souls of everything around them...still doesn't make much sense though.
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OP is the most boring piece of crap ever
You haven't read Gantz, obviously And, OP gets beyond epic after Roguetown, it's #1 for good reason...
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Old 2011-10-16, 07:13   Link #66
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@ Ronin Mayel --OP is the most boring piece of crap ever and...Luffy wants to be the pirate king. Plot is simple, the characters are simple. I truly fail to understand why it's so popular and the characters are the ugliest characters I have ever seen--barring Spongebob.. I just can't get into it and I really hate the way Oda draws his battle scenes. I like the fights A LOT so it turns me off..that and it's boring and the characters are so damn ugly...so I can't read it...I couldn't make it past 30 chapters and that was hard to do. I was bored to tears. but it's a matter of taste. I think it's crap but that doesn't mean it is crap. Hell I think Bleach is a masterpiece but I am one of the few people you will ever meet that thinks like that. To each his own...
i used to think so too, believe it or not. took me a while to warm up to it myself. but i think i know why you think it's boring, you only managed to read the first few chapters. i had the same reaction the first time i read it. but i was told that one piece starts slow, it doesn't reach "epicdom" until the arlong arc. that's around some 70 chapters later, that's when the real story really unfolds. but once you reach that point it becomes better and better. the art starts to look better too. i just think one piece is misjudged. it's not just about some kid with a dream. sure there's a lot of whimsy and silliness in it but there's also a lot of political undertones, conspiracies, social issues and some pretty tricky mysteries that will keep you guessing. the writing is solid and consistent. the humor is epic too.

luffy may be somewhat retarded but there's a lot more going on about his character than ichigo. i think that's why ichigo gets a lot of criticism, many people think he lacks motivation and personality for a lead character. that's probably why the most popular bleach character is hitsugaya and not him. don't get me wrong, i like ichigo. but then again, i like the quiet cool brooding type. i think he's a bit more realistic compared to most shonen leads but i understand where his critics are coming from. he doesn't have dreams or real interests, he's as bland and boring as a rock. he's so hung up on being the protector that all he wants to do is either hang out in his room or fight. it would be nice to see ichigo wanting to become something other than the defender of his loved ones. and in that aspect, luffy beats him by a mile.

like kafriel said, one piece is the biggest-selling manga in the world for good reason. and there's a reason why oda is one of the most celebrated and critically-acclaimed manga writers. its popularity is not overrated unlike some series. i'm not forcing you to read it of course, i'm just trying to explain why it's so popular and beloved. but i guess you won't be able to truly understand its epic greatness unless you find out for yourself. well that's enough, i just realized this a bleach thread and i'm off topic!

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You haven't read Gantz, obviously And, OP gets beyond epic after Roguetown, it's #1 for good reason...
have you seen the gantz live action movie version? horrible! well, at least i think so.
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Old 2011-10-16, 08:20   Link #67
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And, OP gets beyond epic after Roguetown, it's #1 for good reason...
Seriously. I had my students do a show and tell class and half a dozen brought in copies of OP and said that it was the only manga to ever make them cry while reading it (these were male students, for the record). That's why it's #1 in Japan - it 100% caters to the Japanese teenage male reading audience (see: target Shonen audience).

On a random and sort of related note, I went to the Shonen Jump store today. Bleach merch has been relegated to a single shelf in a far corner of the store. The rest of the shop was OP, Gintama and some other one I've never heard of before. Beginning of the end, my friends.
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Old 2011-10-16, 15:56   Link #68
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Seriously. I had my students do a show and tell class and half a dozen brought in copies of OP and said that it was the only manga to ever make them cry while reading it (these were male students, for the record). That's why it's #1 in Japan - it 100% caters to the Japanese teenage male reading audience (see: target Shonen audience).
Exactly! I am not a male, nor am I a teen. Therefore it doesn't interest me. Bleach on the other hand has Seinen undertones
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Toushiro doesn't know Yukio, but if he did I bet you mah cookies he'd ROOOOOAR and charge in like usual,
Not true. He usually goes Bankai and then tries to win with brute force, not brains. Against Luppi...Luppi was distracted so it gave him time to set up his move. Against Harribel it was the same...You make hot water and I'll freeze it. Then he used a move that could potentially kill the people he loves and cares for as well, just so he could win. This time he actually thought past the victory and actually thought about Yukio's fullbring before he used his zanpakuto. He did change and he actually looked cool
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Byakuya had always been one to protect bonds - remember Hisana? He just shifted from lost love to newfound friendship
Yes I remember her. What about her? If you're talking about his promise to her regarding Rukia. All he did was honor that promise. He did not give Rukia the love that Hisana could not give her like she asked him to. He made her feel unwanted and never openly showed affection. He would have killed her to honor a vow...a stupid one at that. It was not until he fought Ichigo that he changed his way of thinking. When he fought Zomari he called her his "pride" which was cool but it's not the same as saying "you tried to kill my beloved little sister, so I am going to kill you" He previously put honor and duty before friendship. Ichigo changed him
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Renji knows how to let his fans down :P
More like Kubo knows how to let Renji fans down BUT...I am actually glad he was so laid back. It would have been worse to see him go all out and get angry over a fodder opponent
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Actually, inserting yourself into the memories of an object is ridiculous, but it does follow the pantheistic nature of fullbringers manipulating the souls of everything around them...still doesn't make much sense though.
Not when you come from culture that believes it's possible to leave an imprint of your feelings and memories on objects you touch. It does make sense if you look at in that light.
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Old 2011-10-16, 19:14   Link #69
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I feel like this could all be Aizen's bankai..
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:43   Link #70
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LOP is not the only one to dislike Naruto. I tried reading a chapter and I couldn't make it past four pages. To me, it was boring and the artwork reminded me of Hanna-Barbera. Different people like different things and I've always liked Bleach for its more seinen elements.

We really should be discussing Bleach, however, and not Naruto. Why the hell are the soul reapers still training to defeat Aizen? And I'm wondering if Ichigo is losing his ties to his family and the living world, literally losing his place in the memory and feelings of his friends and family, and finding that he really belongs in SS. I doubt it because it is such a harsh step to take, so the interesting part will be to see how Kubo resolves it.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:51   Link #71
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@ Sabu Kyu...it's not a retcon. Inserting himself into people's and objects pasts has always been his powers. He doesn't change the past he can insert himself in it and use it to his advantage.
It's not retcon in the sense that he's changing the story, but retcon in the sense that he rewrites the past. Like you said, he doesn't travel in time to change history. If he did, he actually wouldn't be retconning. His ability is more powerful and way cheaper than actually being able to time travel. In a way, it's almost like the opposite of Orihime's ability to reject things from existence. Orhime makes things so that they have never been. Tsukihima makes things so that they have always been.

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Originally Posted by ronin myael
he's as bland and boring as a rock. he's so hung up on being the protector that all he wants to do is either hang out in his room or fight. it would be nice to see ichigo wanting to become something other than the defender of his loved ones
Yeah, but Ichigo actually lives in the "real" world. Yes, there's the supernatural world of shinigami and hollows but that's not actually his life. His life is school, sports, a part-time job and his family. He has concerns and aspirations of a typical teenager (getting decent grades, saving money for college, etc.). Luffy doesn't have that duality in his life. He lives his life in a fantastic world of pirates and he is a pirate 24/7.

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and in that aspect, luffy beats him by a mile.
Yes. In addition to fighting and defending his loved ones, Luffy also loves eating. Definitely, he's a layered and complex hero compared to Ichigo
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Old 2011-10-16, 23:34   Link #72
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^ yeah, agree, Ichigo lives in the "real" world,.....too real, that even the characters just go with the flow just like the readers and thus making all of us leave to nowhere.

unlike Luffy and Naruto, we know that there is always one ultimate destination and ending for them. Luffy - pirate king or not. Naruto - Hokage or not. Ichigo - ???????????????

Ichigo is like an "easy forgotten hero" right now, there's nothing to tell to him to make him legendary like Luffy and Naruto and I guess even Kubo didn't know what to do to him..............but i still have my hope that Kubo will reveal that Ichigo is "special" too because Kubo is Ichigo, just like Sir Oda is Luffy and Kishimoto is Naruto. He will never make himself to be forever Substitute. neh? ^^

On a side note, this is getting ridiculus! i'm wondering why those fullbringers who recieved a shred of fullbring power from ichigo become more weak and lame. I'd expect at least for them to show a little percent of power boost but there is not!.....Tsukishima and that Lucky guy displayed more at least equal footing to the shinigami's even they didn't get a shred of ichigo's power.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:43   Link #73
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Maybe Ichigo hasn't met his destiny yet? It doesn't even have to be much more than saving the world (again) and living happily in the end (like Goku from DBZ).
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Old 2011-10-17, 02:29   Link #74
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i'm wondering why those fullbringers who recieved a shred of fullbring power from ichigo become more weak and lame.
Same reason why Soi Fon had a hard time using her Bankai for the first time: the first form is entirely different from the second form.
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Old 2011-10-17, 02:37   Link #75
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Which means that Ginjou inadvertedly made them weaker? That kinda contradicts the whole "OMFG THEY'VE GOTTEN STRONGER" feeling Kubo was trying to force on us...
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Old 2011-10-17, 02:40   Link #76
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Not to mention that they are not used to their powers and they are to face much stronger opponents.
Talk about being buffed and nerfed at the same time.
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Old 2011-10-17, 04:35   Link #77
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This is my beef with the entire Bleach fandom because they complain and nit pick every goddamn thing Kubo does and seldom put any thought into the chapters before they start to shit on Kubo.
When Kubo starts to write new and interesting material, instead of reusing the same old formula time and time again, then i might just enjoy Bleach , but for now it's more fun this way. Plus, Kubo's female characters are hot, so there's enough reason there to keep on reading.
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Old 2011-10-17, 06:31   Link #78
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Then he used a move that could potentially kill the people he loves and cares for as well, just so he could win.
He didn't use it right off the bat though, so as to take them down as well.
Quote:
This time he actually thought past the victory and actually thought about Yukio's fullbring before he used his zanpakuto.
And in his fight with Halibel, he considered her powers before attacking, I don't see how that counts as thinking past victory though.
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Yes I remember her. What about her? If you're talking about his promise to her regarding Rukia. All he did was honor that promise. He did not give Rukia the love that Hisana could not give her like she asked him to. He made her feel unwanted and never openly showed affection. He would have killed her to honor a vow...a stupid one at that. It was not until he fought Ichigo that he changed his way of thinking. When he fought Zomari he called her his "pride" which was cool but it's not the same as saying "you tried to kill my beloved little sister, so I am going to kill you" He previously put honor and duty before friendship. Ichigo changed him
That vow was his own bond though, so he did have something to protect, even back then.
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Which means that Ginjou inadvertedly made them weaker? That kinda contradicts the whole "OMFG THEY'VE GOTTEN STRONGER" feeling Kubo was trying to force on us...
Nah, it's more of a "OMG the shinigami are stronger than the FB who are stronger than before :O :O :O !!!" They were just a measuring stick, Ginjou's fate is probably the same.
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Why the hell are the soul reapers still training to defeat Aizen?
They only have 19998 years and 5 months left till Aizen is set loose again...they must be ready next time
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Old 2011-10-17, 08:41   Link #79
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Yeah, but Ichigo actually lives in the "real" world. Yes, there's the supernatural world of shinigami and hollows but that's not actually his life. His life is school, sports, a part-time job and his family. He has concerns and aspirations of a typical teenager (getting decent grades, saving money for college, etc.). Luffy doesn't have that duality in his life. He lives his life in a fantastic world of pirates and he is a pirate 24/7.

Yes. In addition to fighting and defending his loved ones, Luffy also loves eating. Definitely, he's a layered and complex hero compared to Ichigo
ichigo may live in the real world but he didn't exactly live a normal life before he was introduced to the shinigami world. the kid can see ghosts for crying out loud! he talks to them and helps them move on. nothing about that is normal. i never said luffy is a complex character, i even called him retarded! that's why i chose him as a basis of comparison. at least simpleton luffy has an interest and as the series progresses you get to know a little more about his dreams, why he wants to become the pirate king and what makes him tick. what is ichigo interested in? we don't even know. yu yu hakusho's yusuke wasn't as boring and to think he really lived a normal life before he died and became a spirit agent. he was a troublemaker who often cut classes, he often got into fights too and he didn't care much about his loved ones. but as the series progresses he starts to evolve, he starts to realize how important his life was, his friends, his family and how much he regretted the things he did and didn't do when he was alive.

at the start of the series, a "normal" teen-aged ichigo is understandable, but even after all the things he went through, the things he has seen, the people he has met, he remains the same. he's still scared shitless whenever he lacks the power to save anyone. he still needs to have someone else (namely rukia) to "beat the crap out of him" just so he could snap out of his self-pity and despair. i was expecting a more mature ichigo after the time-skip. perhaps someone who is a little more curious about his lineage and powers. but no, he goes back to his former life like nothing happened. his father even asked him if he wanted to talk about it but he declined. i don't get him at all. that's not character depth. that's just kubo trying to put ichigo in the same mystery veil he cloaked aizen with.

everyone has motivations, we all have interests no matter how common or boring. to me, ichigo just seems like a kid who doesn't even care whether he lives or dies. he looks bored all the time. he goes to school, to work, meets up with his friends but he doesn't seem to enjoy any of it very much. guys like renji have more personality than he does. at least renji has ambitions. he aims to become stronger to someday surpass byakuya. he even adds a new tattoo every time he gains a new level of power. and he seems to have a fetish for shades and bandanas. what about ichigo? i just feel that ichigo could use some serious character development befitting of someone who literally saved the world and almost died doing it. i used to really like the guy and i still have a soft spot for him but he's boring as hell.
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Old 2011-10-17, 16:12   Link #80
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This was posted in the Fairy Tail manga thread by ShiroiRyu. It's somewhat relevant to this weeks chapter.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...mx-d4cw6xj.png

by fc01@deviantart
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