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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 27 42.86%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 34.92%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 17.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 0 0%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.17%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.59%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-22, 16:04   Link #121
creb
Hiding Under Your Bed
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yeah, that's what it makes me think of too.

Bring drunk lowers a person's inhibitions considerably, kind of letting the "id" take over entirely, to put it in Freudian terms. You can't truly consent to anything in such a state, in my view, but what you do/say in such a state is often the most unvarnished representation of what you really want and feel.


It is possible, though, that Yuri's plan all along was to help Ringo forward her relationship with Sho. So she set up a situation that would naturally bring out Sho's protective and romantic feelings for Ringo, forcing him to kind of own up to them as it were.

If this is the case, then Yuri perhaps never really intended to rape Ringo, but to simply make it seem like the two were having sex, in order to arouse Sho's passions. Maybe in the process of enacting her plan, she couldn't help but get caught up in how much Ringo was like Momoka, and hence allowed herself to steal a kiss from Ringo and let her imaginations run wild a bit.
Indeed. Yuri gets my vote for best mother figure of the year!
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:05   Link #122
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
It's done to heighten sexual pleasure for those into bondage. Those ropes/knots were straight out of typical bondage fantasies. I assume, "stopping her moving" in the context you used it was more about keeping her from escaping. I totally disagree. I don't think Ringo had any intention of escaping at that point.
Could be, but some drugs kind of forces spastic movement, really random stuff, like swinging your arm to kicking at full force.
But yeah it could be a bondage thing.
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:10   Link #123
Kirarakim
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You know I would be fine with Yuri giving Ringo a drug to let down her inhibitions so Shouma would get jealous; if there just wasn't that line about wanting to mess her up.

Shouma wasn't there to hear that so there was no need for a line as disturbing as that (unless the translation was too strong).
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:14   Link #124
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
(unless the translation was too strong).
No it wasn't. But this is exactly the same thing Ringo tells Shouma over the phone in the first call, which supports my take that Yuri was leading her on what to say to same extent.
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:14   Link #125
faburosumakusu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
You know I would be fine with Yuri giving Ringo a drug to let down her inhibitions so Shouma would get jealous; if there just wasn't that line about wanting to mess her up.

Shouma wasn't there to hear that so there was no need for a line as disturbing as that (unless the translation was too strong).
Also, Yuri says something like I guess it has to be you Momoka as she watches Shouma and Ringo sleep which sort of reinforces the idea that she was planning on raping Ringo but at some point she realized she wouldnt be able to do it because the person she loves is Momoka, not Ringo (Sort of like when Ringo couldn't have sex with Tabuki because she doesn't really love him that way).
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:14   Link #126
Shiroth
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I love how hilarious and obvious it was that Shouma was in the room next door. & you end up not caring at all, because these are the type of twists you expect to see in such a show.

Yuri's Father, oh my. Ikuhara certainly can write twisted characters, and he totally out did himself here. Love how Yuri's character keeps on developing in this episode, and keeps on reminded me of my favourite character from Utena, Juri.

As for the diary, never expected it would turn out to be something like that. I'm pleased with such a twist.

As for the new OP, kissing foot~
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:44   Link #127
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ele-ene-ene View Post
Spoiler for misteriuos classmate:
That blacked out person in the OP is actually Kanba. On Shouma's friend, I think he's just there for comedic effect. I also think that Shouma being at the onsen was more or less for comedic effect. Some plot/character progression happened after Shouma woke up and in the aftermath of Natsume's attack. But I don't think Shouma's being there and his involvement in the scene was important so much except to tease him.

Quote:
Spoiler for the second diary:
Not to throw any water on the second diary theories, but I just got this joke, and thought it was pretty funny. What the katakana on that book there actually say is "EROSU", or "eros" for English. Notice also the "18" label. So that's actually a porn book there that No. 1 was getting all excited over, lol.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall:
Sora no Method 20/5 :: Karen Senki 8/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Best adorable shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:53   Link #128
Kanon
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I knew I wouldn't be the only one reminded of Shigofumi. The similarities were uncanny. Yuri's father was nowhere near as fabulous as Kirameki though.

The flashback was highly informative. I'm delighted we finally got to meet Momoka. I have no trouble understanding why Yuri and Tabuki are so hung up on her. That kid was an angel. The diary was as good as confirmed to be the penguin drum (it had to be after they spent so much time over it) since it has the power to alter the fate of a person, and therefore to save Himari.

On a lighter note, Shouma's attempt - which ended in an epic failure- to save Ringo and Natsume and Yuri's face-off were hilarious. To think we were worried about Ringo getting raped by a dickgirl last week... it all seems so far away after witnessing such silly events. Nice bondage, by the way. This show does a terrific job at blending drama and comedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
You only understand how messed up RGU is when you realize Utena and Anthy are indeed 14 and in their 2nd year of middle school. Welcome in Ikuhara's world, for the best and worst .
WHAT? I never knew that...

AKIOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Old 2011-10-22, 16:57   Link #129
zeando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ele-ene-ene View Post
Spoiler for misteriuos classmate:
mm, hairs don't match much, but comparing with the previous kanba and shouma falling, both don't exactly match too, but kanba is the most near of them
and if the way to wear the uniform can be taken as an element too:
kanba's: jacket open, necktie out
shouma's: jacket closed, necktie in
shadow's: jacket open, necktie in
the shadow in OP1 probably was kanba :/

confronting op1 and op2, before the shadow falls in op1 there are 2 male hands getting separed, guess kanba and shouma? in the op2 there are still 2 hands getting separed at the end, but this time one is of himari
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:04   Link #130
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
WHAT? I never knew that...
I should have told you.
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:17   Link #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Sorry, I don't see it. I don't think Ringo had a state of mind clear enough to think all that. Plus when Shouma got there Yuri was all "just as planned" too. I don't think she told Ringo exactly what to say, but I do think making the call was her idea and she prompted Ringo on what to say to some extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faburosumakusu View Post
I agree.
Plus, I don't see why Ringo would want to have sex with Yuri when she couldn't even do it with Tabuki and that had been what she had wanted all along but because of what Shoma said, she couldn't do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I understand your point, and I agree. I just wouldn't use the world "willing" to describe it, since I think you need to be in a right state of mind to be truly willing. Just my two cents on the semantic issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No it wasn't. But this is exactly the same thing Ringo tells Shouma over the phone in the first call, which supports my take that Yuri was leading her on what to say to same extent.
From how I understood the situation:
  • Ringo is not exactly the shining example of mental stability
  • Ringo was deeply hurt by Shouma, and deep down wanted revenge
  • Ringo admired Yuri both physically and mentally, to the point that I expect during the last episode for her to make advances towards Yuri
  • Before the hypnotic Ringo, was blushing and happy about what I call seduction lines
  • Ringo trusted Yuri
  • When Ringo woke up bound, and all; she did not struggle
  • And enjoyed teasing/ridiculing Shouma, which persuaded me that from Ringo's perspective, Yuri's advances were welcome, yet unexpected
which makes perfect sense since for the first time in her life she not only felt important, attractive, and useful to someone she thought highly of, but achieved that without trickery, in the same way as her idolized sister, as well as for a person that cherished and needed Momoka.

From Yuri's perspective, I tend to believe that she honestly saw Momoka in Ringo, but half way she realized that she was just deluding herself, probably kept that in the back of her mind during the previous episode, and bottom-line is that she was completely in control of the situation both episodes, with a willful victim (both debatable and subject to definition) and a useless white knight next door, which both she arranged to be in those places and state.

But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Yes and it would still be considered date rape and no one would say Ringo was in her right mind & willing. From a date rape website:
  • It's harder to think clearly.
  • It's harder to set limits and make good choices.
  • It's harder to tell when a situation could be dangerous.
  • It's harder to say "no" to sexual advances.
  • It's harder to fight back if a sexual assault occurs.
  • It's possible to blackout and to have memory loss.
I tend to give people more credit than the mindless meat puppets that find everything harder, abolish any responsibility and hide behind emotionally charged labels to justify their complete and utter lack in judgement. If one can not set limits, make good choices, tell when a situation could be dangerous, say "no" to sexual advances, fight back if a sexual assault occurs, blackout, and to have memory loss... well, probably he/she should not be dating in the first place, rather wait a couple of years until they mature (at least mentally).

EDIT: And before anyone misinterprets or takes out of context the above, I am not saying that it's not date rape (by the strictest definition); what I am saying is what the hell did you expect to happen?!

Last edited by Malkuth; 2011-10-22 at 17:26. Reason: clarifying
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:22   Link #132
risingstar3110
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Momoka is really a little angel from Yuri's perspective. And we still have Tabuki's past story... It's not likely, but I will be real sad if she turns out to be the antagonist of this series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
WHAT? I never knew that...

AKIOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Shocked here too, can't believe that bloody Akio got away with that...So, Utena and Anthy actually was a loli yuri couple then. Which i still can't believe.

Maybe should just set on deny mode and assume those two to be 17 -_-
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:25   Link #133
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
[*]to the point that I expect during the last episode for her to make advances towards Yuri.
After this I couldn't take you seriously anymore. Let's just stop here and agree to disagree.
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:28   Link #134
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I tend to give people more credit than the mindless meat puppets that find everything harder, abolish any responsibility and hide behind emotional labels to justify their complete and utter lack in judgement. If one can not set limits, make good choices, tell when a situation could be dangerous, say "no" to sexual advances, fight back if a sexual assault occurs, blackout, and to have memory loss... well, probably he/she should not be dating in the first place, rather wait a couple of years until they mature (at least mentally).
Okay I am going to edit my last post because I am thinking maybe I was not clear.

The reason someone cannot set limits, make good choices, black outs, can't say no, has memory loss, can't fight back, etc, etc is because they are either under the influence of alcohol or were given a date rape drug.

Hence I don't really understand your point that if they can't do these things they shouldn't be dating in the first place. The point is they can't do them because they are intoxicated and more easy to take advantage of (hence date rape).

And yes everyone should be careful (don't drink too much, watch your drinks, stay with friends) but in taking advantage of someone in an intoxicated state (whether you slipped them a drug or not) is rape.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2011-10-22 at 18:01.
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:45   Link #135
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
This has nothing to do with the whole Yuri/Ringo thing but if you are drugged or under the influence of alcohol you might not be able to do those things. You might not even be able to say no when under normal circumstances you would.

And of course if someone slips a drug in your drink and you suffer black outs or memory losses that is totally the victim's fault.

Everyone should be careful, but being careful and putting the blame on the victim are two completely different things.
I still think human mind is complex through. I means even candle light, expensive gifts and flirty words along with forceful advance can get people out of their state of mind (to the point of can barely resist someone). In fact, by the law, the state of "being drunk" in most country, will still have to be responsible for their actions/ decisions, which would be suck if you couldn't remember what you did. But then that's why Islam country forbid alcohol i guess

Back to the main topic. I knows Yuri actually spike on Ringo's drink to start with. But if Ringo get her brain back to be clear enough level to make a decision, and (next episode) shows her being responsible for her decision, then we can't really keep blaming everything on Yuri or the drug isn't it? That's why next episode will likely to end this debate. Also I don't think the situation gone serious enough that Ringo would have to consult therapist to know whether she has to be responsible for what she did or say
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:55   Link #136
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Back to the main topic. I knows Yuri actually spike on Ringo's drink to start with. But if Ringo get her brain back to be clear enough level to make a decision, and (next episode) shows her being responsible for her decision, then we can't really keep blaming everything on Yuri or the drug isn't it?
Nobody is blaming Yuri for anything but trying to rape Ringo, which is pretty much a fact.

Next episode will probably have Ringo reinforcing her resolve to break free from the whole diary business and live out her own fate, which is where she seemed to be heading before Shouma fucked up, back in episode 14.
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:57   Link #137
Kirarakim
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In fact, by the law, the state of "being drunk" in most country, will still have to be responsible for their actions/ decisions, which would be suck if you couldn't remember what you did. But then that's why Islam country forbid alcohol i guess
You are responsible for your drinking you are not responsible for what someone else does to you in that state.


Quote:
Back to the main topic. I knows Yuri actually spike on Ringo's drink to start with. But if Ringo get her brain back to be clear enough level to make a decision, and (next episode) shows her being responsible for her decision, then we can't really keep blaming everything on Yuri or the drug isn't it? That's why next episode will likely to end this debate. Also I don't think the situation gone serious enough that Ringo would have to consult therapist to know whether she has to be responsible for what she did or say
I also don't think Ringo is going to need a therapist. Let's be clear she wasn't actually raped. At the most if she remembers what she said she might be a little embarrassed.

But I think people don't understand how date rape drugs work if you think Ringo is responsible for her actions in any way (the way Ringo was talking she was definitely still under the influence of the drug).

I mean it's not really that big of a deal because what Ringo said to Shouma is just talk. If anything had happened though I could only see it as rape (no matter what Ringo was saying when she was drugged).
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Old 2011-10-22, 17:58   Link #138
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Nobody is blaming Yuri for anything but trying to rape Ringo, which is pretty much a fact.

Next episode will probably have Ringo reinforcing her resolve to break free from the curse of the diary and live out her own fate, which is where she seemed to be heading before Shouma fucked up, back in episode 14.
Intention is not a crime through. I means she is not the first in this anime
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Old 2011-10-22, 18:02   Link #139
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Intention is not a crime through. I means she is not the first in this anime
And that's why she's still redeemable, like Ringo was. It doesn't mean she isn't to blame though.
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Old 2011-10-22, 18:02   Link #140
Nina.Wolken
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Maybe but I don't understand why "attempted rape" was used at all or why Yuri said something like I am going to mess you up really badly. That was just disturbing.
If you take into account she is into bondage, could be part of a one sided SM play. Insults and threatening are part of the game. I'd need to watch the scene again, but maybe the "I will mess you up" sentence was no real threat, but rather a way to get into the mood...
Were there any candles in the room?! *ouch*


Quote:
Originally Posted by ele-ene-ene View Post
Spoiler for the second diary:
That book made me regret I didn't comment earlier on own Kanba was similar to the mythological Eros. Should do that soon in the appropriate thread.
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