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Old 2012-08-30, 23:47   Link #2921
Rising Dragon
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Wars usually aren't.
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Old 2012-08-30, 23:48   Link #2922
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Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
Yeah, Zeheart is Ezelcant's follower, but he also cares about his subordinates and the future of Vagans. The show tried to have him questioned his loyalty to Ezelcant and also to think what's best for Vagan. But in the end he sort of lost it.
All it took was Ezelcant using his X Rounder ability to show him pretty pictures to convinced him that Project Eden is for the best of not just Vagans but humankind, throw in that sympathy card with Ezelcant himself dying of Mars Rays and wasn't intending to rule as a tyrant and it's not really that hard to follow on from there considering how loyal and how much unwavering faith he has towards Ezelcant and his methods since the very beginning. Zeheart had always put 120% of his faith on Ezelcant, him suddenly changing would actually be the odd thing.

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I just watched the videos. What's up with Ezelcant getting a 'good' ending?
It seems to me that the final theme in AGE is that "even old people can change" - you see this in Flit and you see this in Ezelcant.
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Old 2012-08-30, 23:51   Link #2923
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Zeheart's also been experiencing Ezelcant's visions since early childhood, so it's no real wonder the guy's so susceptible to Ezelcant's words.
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Old 2012-08-31, 00:41   Link #2924
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This is just a joke really.
Ezelcant , who is pretty much responsible for 70 years of war and death, gets to pass away peacefully with his wife at his side and everything gets dumped on Zeheart. I can't decide if that's just sad or stupid. He doesn't deserve that honorable death, he should've been shot by his own subordinates given how low he sank. I think they completely destroyed his character, and then didn't even give him proper justice.
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Old 2012-08-31, 01:03   Link #2925
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
He doesn't deserve that honorable death, he should've been shot by his own subordinates given how low he sank.
Only Zeheart knew what Project Eden was about, if Zeheart wasn't going to shoot Ezelcant for pulling the wool over the eyes of the Vagan citizens, then no one would or could.

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I think they completely destroyed his character, and then didn't even give him proper justice.
Nope, as a Gato-clone I think Zeheart got exactly what he deserved (again just because he wears a mask does not make him a Char clone). I must point out that Zeheart has no ideals of his own - he had and alway was just blindly following Ezelcant - exactly like Gato following Gihren's ideal. He may act just a bit more noble to his subordinates just like Gato was all chivalry and stuff, but on the bigger moral issue he was just as blind and don't deserve that much justice. If you really think about it, even back in Gen 2 he could've tried and work with Asemu and by extension Flit to bring real peace between the Vagans and the Feds - he could've been that leader of the peace seeking splinter group inside the Vagans to start the understanding process having fully tried and integrated into the Earthnoid society, but no, he fully trusted Ezelcant. From the beginning he was lost by all accounts.

Just like I would have no sympathy towards a Nazi whom was kind and caring to his fellow Nazi members but rounds up the Jews to the camps and saluting Hilter proudly. Zeheart is merely the same thing.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2012-08-31 at 01:14.
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Old 2012-08-31, 05:27   Link #2926
GN0010 Nosferatu
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Originally Posted by gordol View Post
PSP Gundam Age Cosmic Drive Universal Accel MOVIE Compilation 1,2 3 and Ending
Thank you! I appreciate it.


I gotta say, I love that beam weedwacker thing, fucked that Gafran up nicely. It's a shame it wasn't in the anime, would have gone great in the episode.


I also love how the Gafran just takes off after seeing it.

It's like the pilot said "Oh fuck this I'm out!"
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Old 2012-08-31, 05:39   Link #2927
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What's this about some game spoiling the ending of age? I personally don't take it with any grain of salt but this has turned up in a few places like gamefaqs(Like that's realiable.... Well, it's reliable for SRW but this was on the Overworld Board and Age 3 isn't even set to appear in that game).

Spoiler:


So... False?
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Old 2012-08-31, 05:56   Link #2928
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Nope, as a Gato-clone I think Zeheart got exactly what he deserved (again just because he wears a mask does not make him a Char clone). I must point out that Zeheart has no ideals of his own - he had and alway was just blindly following Ezelcant - exactly like Gato following Gihren's ideal. He may act just a bit more noble to his subordinates just like Gato was all chivalry and stuff, but on the bigger moral issue he was just as blind and don't deserve that much justice. If you really think about it, even back in Gen 2 he could've tried and work with Asemu and by extension Flit to bring real peace between the Vagans and the Feds - he could've been that leader of the peace seeking splinter group inside the Vagans to start the understanding process having fully tried and integrated into the Earthnoid society, but no, he fully trusted Ezelcant. From the beginning he was lost by all accounts.

Just like I would have no sympathy towards a Nazi whom was kind and caring to his fellow Nazi members but rounds up the Jews to the camps and saluting Hilter proudly. Zeheart is merely the same thing.
It was totally out of character. Zeheart has shown on multiple occasions that he is capable of independent thinking outside of Ezelcant's indoctrination, when he repeatedly hindered Vagan's operations because of his inability to finish off his friend. His new development also at odds with plot progression up to this point. In the last 4-5 episodes he had as much screen time as any of the Asunos and was consistently portrayed as a caring and honorable leader who values live of his people above his own, which is indication of the strong moral values. Up until now, i would have never imagined that his story would end up as such a complete and total trainwreck.

Don't know what to say about Nazi thing, but few people would be capable to completely give up everything they have for the sake of others. Maybe I'm too soft, but i think that alone deserves respect.
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Old 2012-08-31, 06:07   Link #2929
GN0010 Nosferatu
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So we only get to hear an adult Kio? Not see him as well?


They better not pull that shit in the anime.
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Old 2012-08-31, 06:54   Link #2930
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Originally Posted by overloard View Post
It was totally out of character. Zeheart has shown on multiple occasions that he is capable of independent thinking outside of Ezelcant's indoctrination, when he repeatedly hindered Vagan's operations because of his inability to finish off his friend. His new development also at odds with plot progression up to this point. In the last 4-5 episodes he had as much screen time as any of the Asunos and was consistently portrayed as a caring and honorable leader who values live of his people above his own, which is indication of the strong moral values. Up until now, i would have never imagined that his story would end up as such a complete and total trainwreck.

Don't know what to say about Nazi thing, but few people would be capable to completely give up everything they have for the sake of others. Maybe I'm too soft, but i think that alone deserves respect.
They have to mess up Zeheart's character because the plot now can't be solved

With too much contrast between 3 main protagonists , the main story cannot go advanced. The final battle will never happen before battle between 3 Asunos.

- Flit wants only genocide
- Kio blindly wants to save everyone while both Vagan and EFs never want
- Asem's standpoint is never cleared
- Vagans don't have any good commander to match with 3 Asunos
- Too many good people on Vagan side Zeheart , Fram , Deen

It seems if Flit isn't got rid , the story cannot continue.
To prevent this, the only one way the director can do : Make all vagans evils
When one side is totally evil, the other side's doing is always good whether genocide or not

- makes Zenald kill Deen
- makes Zeheart kill his friend
- makes Zera Gins to be the common enemy

Now there are only bad and silly Vagans , they only mess things up , any action to do on them will feel reasoned : open way to Flit's reason
Common Enemy : open way to Kio's reason
Zehatto goes wrong : open way to Asem's reason

All good vagans just have to be dumped , or just being wiped out
Zeheart's character must be sacrificed to solve this strucked plot
and Fram must die as well as Deen.

Last edited by Frioniel; 2012-08-31 at 07:19.
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Old 2012-08-31, 07:51   Link #2931
Mechanon
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
What's this about some game spoiling the ending of age? I personally don't take it with any grain of salt but this has turned up in a few places like gamefaqs(Like that's realiable.... Well, it's reliable for SRW but this was on the Overworld Board and Age 3 isn't even set to appear in that game).

Spoiler:


So... False?
They're true. Gundam AGE has a PSP game that came out yesterday. It goes through the entire plot of the show.
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Old 2012-08-31, 08:20   Link #2932
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Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
Yeah, Zeheart is Ezelcant's follower, but he also cares about his subordinates and the future of Vagans.
Yeah, he did show compassion to his subordinates. But he's even willing to set those aside, even friendship and blood-ties, if they hinder Ezelcant's plans.

Quote:
The show tried to have him questioned his loyalty to Ezelcant and also to think what's best for Vagan. But in the end he sort of lost it.
He did question Ezelcant's plan. He's willing to set aside and even sacrifice whatever he had just to see it completed. If it was just something different, he probably would have left. But, it was the same utopia Ezelcant promised, only much grander(...). Adding that he's in charge now and have powerful mobile suit to use, the responsibility have pretty much intoxicated him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overloard View Post
Zeheart has shown on multiple occasions that he is capable of independent thinking outside of Ezelcant's indoctrination, when he repeatedly hindered Vagan's operations because of his inability to finish off his friend.
He did. But it was also shown he was fighting that inner conflict for the sake of Ezelcant's plan. He hated that he spared Asemu multiple times when the situation called it.

Quote:
In the last 4-5 episodes he had as much screen time as any of the Asunos and was consistently portrayed as a caring and honorable leader who values live of his people above his own, which is indication of the strong moral values.
As long as it didn't hinder Ezelcant's plan... He's even willing to swallow defeats and humiliations multiple times if that's what it takes.
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Old 2012-08-31, 09:27   Link #2933
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Originally Posted by Frioniel View Post
- Too many good people on Vagan side Zeheart , Fram , Deen
Wait what's so good about them?

Quote:
It seems if Flit isn't got rid , the story cannot continue.
To prevent this, the only one way the director can do : Make all vagans evils
When one side is totally evil, the other side's doing is always good whether genocide or not

- makes Zenald kill Deen
- makes Zeheart kill his friend
- makes Zera Gins to be the common enemy

Now there are only bad and silly Vagans , they only mess things up , any action to do on them will feel reasoned : open way to Flit's reason
Common Enemy : open way to Kio's reason
Zehatto goes wrong : open way to Asem's reason

All good vagans just have to be dumped , or just being wiped out
Zeheart's character must be sacrificed to solve this strucked plot
and Fram must die as well as Deen.
The show never made any sympathy towards the Vagans in the first place. The closest would be Lu but that was about it.

Everything for the Federation was corrupt but that's about as far as it went. Even with Renai it turned out that the Federation was framed for her accident which led to her betraying them.

One major problem of this show though is character development. I mean how many characters have we seen get put into the show and then forgotten without so much of a cry?
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Old 2012-08-31, 09:38   Link #2934
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Originally Posted by overloard View Post
Don't know what to say about Nazi thing, but few people would be capable to completely give up everything they have for the sake of others. Maybe I'm too soft, but i think that alone deserves respect.
Giving up something for the in group is a fairly natural human instinct, so I don't think that deserves much respect. Not that I've actually seen Zeheart giving up much in the first place? Again his moral compass on the bigger issue is wacked - even minus Project Eden believing in Ezelcant's way of killing innocent civilian as a way for the Vagan's to conquer Earth was already plenty to show this, I don't know why people keep trying to make the Vagan military to be some honourable army when ALL evidence shows otherwise in the show - again being nice to your fellow mates in the in group but going out to murder civilians really doesn't support this idea they are "good" people.

I'd say Zeheart is a tragic character in the Shakespearen sense - in that he made his own end like Julius Caesar and not that "it was so sad!" way we usually use the word, and I still don't think that automatically make us have to respect or sympathise with him just because he was a tragic character.
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Old 2012-08-31, 10:32   Link #2935
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Zeheart is not tragic, he just goes from being a decent chracter to a joke in the span of a few episodes. He loses all reasoning ability and ends up doing things that go against the character that was developed all throughout the series. That's just Destiny level writing right there.
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Old 2012-08-31, 10:46   Link #2936
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No Revolutionist he is tragic - again in the Shakespearen/literacy way not the usual way we usually associate the meaning with the word which is "it's so sad the way he died".

Again he could've turned for the better - think for himself and not follow Ezelcant's crazy ideals, his time in Gen 2 with Romary and Asemu could've been the doorway to something better, but he chooses not to and believe in Ezelcant. He made this end for himself. This is tragic in the Shakespearen way like Julius Casear - the audience can see every step Casear took which led to his undoing and ultimately his death, Zeheart had been doing the same thing here for the entire show - for every time he spared Asemu and for every time he unquestionably follow Ezelcant's crazy orders to "better" humankind was one more step towards his own downfall.

Also he lost all reasoning ability way before Ezelcant revealed Project Eden to him - admit it what he did in beginning of Gen 3 is proof of this. Again as I've said to you long before you've bought into his pretty words but if you take a step back he wasn't much of a decent character on bigger issues.
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Old 2012-08-31, 11:33   Link #2937
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
No Revolutionist he is tragic - again in the Shakespearen/literacy way not the usual way we usually associate the meaning with the word which is "it's so sad the way he died".

Again he could've turned for the better - think for himself and not follow Ezelcant's crazy ideals, his time in Gen 2 with Romary and Asemu could've been the doorway to something better, but he chooses not to and believe in Ezelcant. He made this end for himself. This is tragic in the Shakespearen way like Julius Casear - the audience can see every step Casear took which led to his undoing and ultimately his death, Zeheart had been doing the same thing here for the entire show - for every time he spared Asemu and for every time he unquestionably follow Ezelcant's crazy orders to "better" humankind was one more step towards his own downfall.

Also he lost all reasoning ability way before Ezelcant revealed Project Eden to him - admit it what he did in beginning of Gen 3 is proof of this. Again as I've said to you long before you've bought into his pretty words but if you take a step back he wasn't much of a decent character on bigger issues.
This is unnecessarily convoluted character development for the show like AGE, given that his effect on overall plot turns out to be almost non-existent. Show wasted too much time to bulid up the character who in the end turns to be just a punchbag for the minor protagonist. Writers should have stuck with one of the character archetypes and either made him Zeheart the Honorable Guy or Zeheart the Crazy Zealot. If he is good guy, he doesn't lead attacks on civilians. If he is not, he doesn't sacrifice himself to shield friend from asteroid. Not saying that he should be one-dimensional, just act accordingly his established personality. They decided to mix thing up, and result is illogical, inconsistent and on the whole ruined character.
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Old 2012-08-31, 11:34   Link #2938
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Well Zeheart aside, I cleared the game.
And to add on to what wasn't told:
Spoiler for Massive spoilers:
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Old 2012-08-31, 11:52   Link #2939
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Originally Posted by overloard View Post
This is unnecessarily convoluted character development for the show like AGE, given that his effect on overall plot turns out to be almost non-existent. Show wasted too much time to bulid up the character who in the end turns to be just a punchbag for the minor protagonist. Writers should have stuck with one of the character archetypes and either made him Zeheart the Honorable Guy or Zeheart the Crazy Zealot. If he is good guy, he doesn't lead attacks on civilians. If he is not, he doesn't sacrifice himself to shield friend from asteroid. Not saying that he should be one-dimensional, just act accordingly his established personality. They decided to mix thing up, and result is illogical, inconsistent and on the whole ruined character.
My thoughts exactly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltyred View Post
Well Zeheart aside, I cleared the game.
And to add on to what wasn't told:
Spoiler for Massive spoilers:
So they perfect the shielding but does that apply to only Second Moon or the remaining Vagan Colony/ies as well? Because if it's just SM then this ending is just facepalm inducing. All it takes is for 1 colony left to get screwed over and they start terrorism or hell maybe even all out war against those they feel wronged them..
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Old 2012-08-31, 11:58   Link #2940
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I'm not quite understand why did they even stop fighting. Just because Flit (almost?) blown them up but then had change of mind and aided in rescue mission? As it happens, this vagans are surprisingly forgiving and understanding guys.

Last edited by overloard; 2012-08-31 at 12:59.
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