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Old 2012-08-06, 14:38   Link #861
maximilianjenus
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Join Date: Mar 2008
what's up guys ? what's with all the novel spoilers ?

back to the episode...and I will try to forget the spoilers, it was a considerable improvement over the previous one, actually it made the previous one necesary as ballon vine put it, things were getting pretty boring. What I was expecting to happen was for iori's body to die and then having her personality be sort of a nomad hopping between her freind's bodies to try and have a semblance of a life, well that can kinda still happen later, as of now it was a nice arc overall.
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Old 2012-08-06, 15:26   Link #862
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
TL;DR - If you're gonna put in supernatural elements into a slice of life/drama series, do it properly and don't half ass it like it is here in Kokoro Connect because it's hurting what is an ambitious teen drama that is actually dealing with interesting and significant issues.
Like Enzo said, isn't it a little late to be bringing this up?

I don't really agree though that KC doesn't benefit from the body swapping. It has been the main mechanism for the plot, it is what has forced the characters to confront their inner demons and unveil their skeletons to each other. If you had characters one after the other all of a sudden coming out with a ton of personal issues I think this would feel kind of forced. This naturalizes the character exposition since it places an external pressure on the cast to do so. There is no motivation otherwise for EVERY character to unveil something (Well the girls at least). Also considering the larger than life character dialogue which is borderline philosophical at times, I think the usage of the body swapping is quite useful in this regard.

Not to say KC doesn't have flaws. I actually feel that the series might not be benefiting so far from the presence of heartseed. Leaving the mechanisms of the body swapping unexplained and as vague as possible might have done the implementation of the body swapping better (Helps with suspension of belief).

Secondly there has been a lot of focus on the girls so far and not enough of the boys. The cast focus hasn't been terribly balanced thus far. This can still be somewhat averted, but ignoring 2/5 of your cast largely for about a third of the show so far is not what I call balanced writing.
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Old 2012-08-06, 16:19   Link #863
Kaoru Chujo
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Heartseed isn't supernatural, he's a visitor from the future or an alien, here to test the human race for membership in the galactic federation. Lol (I actually have no idea).

In any case, I think the inexplicability of the whole thing, including his motives, adds a feeling to the story that I like. Lets call it "deeper." Heartseed is a memorable and interesting character/phenomenon. Why does he imply he has no energy or motivation? He implies that he is doing this because it is his duty. Duty to whom or what?

In general, my opinion is that anime is not the right medium for (fake) "realism." Anime is best for fantasy and myth. What we have here is a pretty strong myth, one that we have no clear understanding of...yet.
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Old 2012-08-06, 16:30   Link #864
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Heartseed isn't supernatural, he's a visitor from the future or an alien, here to test the human race for membership in the galactic federation. Lol (I actually have no idea).
Maybe he really is just a damn plant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
what's up guys ? what's with all the novel spoilers ?
You don't have to click on the Light Novel thread...
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Old 2012-08-06, 16:53   Link #865
Qilin
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Here's the thing, I have no problem with the general premise of the story (i.e. body swapping). However, the way the show attempts to justify this seemed to me lazy at best and downright obstructive at worst. Though since the story has been thoroughly engaging since then, I would have just left it at that, but this episode found a way drag the problem back to the surface.

I would have been fine if Heartseed's role was solely to serve as a trigger for the body-switching phenomenon. That way, it might have been easier to hand wave his existence in the story. Now it's pretty clear that his presence there is to solely generate conflict within the the plot. That said, I don't appreciate it when the an author's ability to create a situation necessary for drama amounts to "I want this to happen, so it just does".

I just had an idea: What if Heartseed exists as the author's avatar within the story?
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-08-06 at 17:03.
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Old 2012-08-06, 17:18   Link #866
maximilianjenus
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either the author or the audience, still it works as meta.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Maybe he really is just a damn plant...



You don't have to click on the Light Novel thread...
I never clicked it, it's people bringing up info from that thread in here what I complain about.

your post is offensive to me, because you assume I am making a dumb complaint when i am complaining about (and reported ) people who read the novel thread or other forums, then leak info from that as if being able to read things in advance instead of wanting to enjoy the anime as it is makes them better than the ones of us who would rather enjoy the anime without being spoiled.
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Old 2012-08-06, 17:39   Link #867
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post

your post is offensive to me, because you assume I am making a dumb complaint when i am complaining about (and reported ) people who read the novel thread or other forums, then leak info from that as if being able to read things in advance instead of wanting to enjoy the anime as it is makes them better than the ones of us who would rather enjoy the anime without being spoiled.

Take it however you like, but I don't see any of the spoilers that you're talking about- or at the very least you seem to be the only one that can see them.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-08-06 at 17:57.
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Old 2012-08-06, 18:03   Link #868
Blonto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Here's the thing, I have no problem with the general premise of the story (i.e. body swapping). However, the way the show attempts to justify this seemed to me lazy at best and downright obstructive at worst. Though since the story has been thoroughly engaging since then, I would have just left it at that, but this episode found a way drag the problem back to the surface.

I would have been fine if Heartseed's role was solely to serve as a trigger for the body-switching phenomenon. That way, it might have been easier to hand wave his existence in the story. Now it's pretty clear that his presence there is to solely generate conflict within the the plot. That said, I don't appreciate it when the an author's ability to create a situation necessary for drama amounts to "I want this to happen, so it just does".

I just had an idea: What if Heartseed exists as the author's avatar within the story?
The thing is that the plot of this show relies on the characters' problems and relationships. So why something happens really isn't that important, what's important is the characters' reactions to the event, which is what the story is about. I'd feel tricked if the plot promised to be realistic and logical and pulled something like that, but the focus of the plot is pretty much: "This weird thing happens, here's how the characters react", so I just remind myself that unexpected/unexplained things happen in real life and give the author freedom based on that to move the plot where he thinks would be most interesting (or rather just the parts whose rules we as the audience aren't sure of. The characters on the other hand are bound by action and consequence, since they're at the core of this story). This might be a matter of my taste, though.

It made more sense the person behind the whole premise would show up at the end and take matters into his own hands for a bit. What I don't like is the lack of progression in this little backstory. We don't know a single new thing about Heartseed and yet he's supposed to be the explanation for these events.
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Old 2012-08-06, 18:53   Link #869
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
The thing is that the plot of this show relies on the characters' problems and relationships. So why something happens really isn't that important, what's important is the characters' reactions to the event, which is what the story is about. I'd feel tricked if the plot promised to be realistic and logical and pulled something like that, but the focus of the plot is pretty much: "This weird thing happens, here's how the characters react", so I just remind myself that unexpected/unexplained things happen in real life and give the author freedom based on that to move the plot where he thinks would be most interesting (or rather just the parts whose rules we as the audience aren't sure of. The characters on the other hand are bound by action and consequence, since they're at the core of this story). This might be a matter of my taste, though.
Just because it doesn't fall into the story's main focus doesn't make it irrelevant. Like you said, it's clear that the show excels (arguably) at fleshing out the relationships and interactions between its characters, but it doesn't mean that we should just turn a blind eye on everything else. How a conflict comes about, I believe, is every bit as important as the consequences it brings about. For one thing, it will determine whether a situation appears contrived (that is to say forced) or natural. Needless to say, how natural a particular scene is perceived to be plays a role in the degree of immersion that is felt by the audience. But then again, it could be, as you say, a matter of taste.
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Old 2012-08-06, 21:07   Link #870
Triple_R
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The way that Heartseed has been handled doesn't bother me all that much personally... but I can see why it would bother some people.

The feeling I get with Heartseed is that the anime wants to have its cake and eat it too in how he's utilized within the anime.


This is the vibe I was getting from the people behind Kokoro Connect after Episode 2: "Ok, we know that some of our audience just have to have some sort of explanation for why these body-switches are happening, so we're going to throw 'Heartseed' at you, and you can basically interpret him however you wish. But we're throwing him out there in a way that makes it clear that the cause of these body-switches is not what is important, and what is important is how the characters deal with those body-switches. Basically, we're throwing Heartseed out there so that your Chitanda-esque curiosity can be dealt with, enabling you to move on to what's really important."

And then Episodes 3 and 4 basically back up those vibes by how Heartseed barely gets a mention, and doesn't show up at all.

But then... In Episode 5, Heartseed might as well be Q from Star Trek. Once a character takes over a main cast member's body, and uses it to literally put her in the hospital, that character has gone well beyond being just a "first cause" plot-trigger. That character is now an important antagonist in and of himself. So the narrative shouldn't just hand-wave him away anymore, imo. He's now simply too involved. The narrative should no longer just treat him as an otherwise unimportant "first cause" that puts the plot in motion.

And yet, I have this nagging suspicion that Kokoro Connect is trying to have it both ways here. I have this suspicion that Kokoro Connect wants the benefits that you can only get from having a personable, powerful antagonist (i.e. the benefit of creating a very specific and tense "test" scenario like what we saw in Episode 5) but without having to take the time and effort to make a full-fledged character out of that antagonist.

So I get the impression that Kokoro Connects wants its own Q, but without having to give him the sort of focus and development that Q rightly received in Star Trek. I can see how it would come off as a bit too cute, or a bit too half-assed, to some viewers.


But maybe my nagging suspicion will be proven wrong. I honestly hope so.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-08-06 at 21:21.
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Old 2012-08-06, 21:38   Link #871
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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So far, I (more or less) agree with what Qilin & Triple R said that Heartseed is basically a “walking plot device” or “the author’s avatar”.

But I have to admit that I found Heartseed to be interesting and helpful since he’s the one that get the story going in a more interesting way. If not for him, we will be stuck with the StuCs gang doin’ nothing but foolin’ around in their clubroom. Yes, Heartseed is (so far) the author’s sorry excuse for designing a scenario, but if this is the nature of the show, then I’ll just sit back and enjoy what’s to come from our alien/plant friend.
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Old 2012-08-06, 21:46   Link #872
Arturia Polaris
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
So far, I (more or less) agree with what Qilin & Triple R said that Heartseed is basically a “walking plot device” or “the author’s avatar”.

But I have to admit that I found Heartseed to be interesting and helpful since he’s the one that get the story going in a more interesting way. If not for him, we will be stuck with the StuCs gang doin’ nothing but foolin’ around in their clubroom. Yes, Heartseed is (so far) the author’s sorry excuse for designing a scenario, but if this is the nature of the show, then I’ll just sit back and enjoy what’s to come from our alien/plant friend.
I believe that this is like saying that Haruhi (Haruhi Suzumiya series) is a walking plot device. Of course she is, it's the whole point of the anime!

/me flips desk.

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Old 2012-08-06, 22:15   Link #873
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Arturia Polaris View Post
I believe that this is like saying that Haruhi (Haruhi Suzumiya series) is a walking plot device. Of course she is, it's the whole point of the anime!

/me flips desk.

Arturia
Dude, I already said the similar thing in my post and I don't mind. Did you read my full post or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Yes, Heartseed is (so far) the author’s sorry excuse for designing a scenario, but if this is the nature of the show, then I’ll just sit back and enjoy what’s to come from our alien/plant friend.
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Old 2012-08-06, 22:17   Link #874
Arturia Polaris
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Dude, I already said the similar thing in my post and I don't mind. Did you read my full post or not?
I was talking about the people who make that point, not you. I just took it because it was the closest one

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Old 2012-08-06, 22:23   Link #875
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Arturia Polaris View Post
I was talking about the people who make that point, not you. I just took it because it was the closest one

Arturia
Oh, is that so?
Next time, please quote directly from the source so that there won't be any misunderstanding .
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Old 2012-08-06, 22:56   Link #876
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturia Polaris View Post
I believe that this is like saying that Haruhi (Haruhi Suzumiya series) is a walking plot device. Of course she is, it's the whole point of the anime!

/me flips desk.

Arturia
Why not? Haruhi Suzumiya is indeed a gigantic plot device.

However, she compensates by being much better characterized, allowing her to bear some semblance of an actual personality. That said, while she may be a plot device, she is much more than just that. At the very least, I can perceive her as an actual character.

On the other hand, Heartseed strikes me as something of a periphery element tacked on solely to keep the plot in motion. There hardly anything remotely humanizing about him. For now, he is nothing more than a plot device.
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Old 2012-08-06, 23:59   Link #877
jeroz
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on a side note, is Kyubey from Madoka Magica a plot device or a character?
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Old 2012-08-07, 01:25   Link #878
Guardian Enzo
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This debate reminds me a bit of people complaining about Deus ex machina moments in Mirai Nikki...
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Old 2012-08-07, 02:28   Link #879
blaze0041
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It irks me a little bit that the ED song, Kokoro no Kana by Team.Nekokan [Neko] featuring. Junca Amaoto (ココロノカラ / Team.ねこかん[猫]featuring.天乙准花), would only be available in physical (CD) form bundled with the Blu-ray volume 1 (episodes 1 & 2) limited edition...

It is, however, available on the iTunes Store, though only if you have a Japanese iTunes account (I think):
http://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/kok...546217440?l=en

Having a listen to it, I really like the full version (perhaps aside from the gaps of silence), definitely contrasts with the faster songs from the R21 album a years back...
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Old 2012-08-07, 03:35   Link #880
Gohan78
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I enjoyed this first arc greatly but I also think that the body swapping gimmick was underutilized. In the first episode they introduced some family members. I was expecting the five friends to interact with each other's family and learn something about their friends this way, alas the families were completely left out of the game.

I think that the only time the body swapping was relevant was when Taichi and Yui switched while the latter was crying. In all the other circumstances, the story could have worked without any body swap at all (barring Iori's "suicide attempt" of course).

They could have done so much more with this gimmick (and not just for fanservice purposes...)
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