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Old 2012-08-12, 09:11   Link #1181
Blonto
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Wait, wasn't it just Inaban who called Taichi a selfless freak?
Aoki did it too, only in nicer words.
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Old 2012-08-12, 09:18   Link #1182
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I would say it's different. Others said it in a way to say "Take care of yourself too". Inaban was closer to "Don't give a damn about others".
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Old 2012-08-12, 10:03   Link #1183
frivolity
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A little surprised that nobody posted this:
Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Did anyone notice the crocodile slippers too? It was quite popular some time back for their comfort, but also had a tendency to get stuck in the corners of escalators.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-08-12 at 11:31. Reason: please use tags for big images!
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Old 2012-08-12, 10:35   Link #1184
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I suppose you could have left the cause behind these body-switchings, and now these Id Mode moments, a complete mystery. But I honestly think that would infuriate more viewers than Heartseed himself does. I can just imagine all the viewers going "When are they going to explain what causes all this bizarre stuff?!" Honestly, I'd probably be singing much the same tune myself at this point, if not for Heartseed.
Exactly. It would change the tone of the story completely. The audience and the characters would be wondering how and why all this stuff is happening. It'd be a weird supernatural mystery, and never giving any kind of answer makes it a frustrating mystery.

With Heartseed, we know exactly why this is happening and even the details of how it works (only affects them, happens randomly, etc). So the characters, as well as the audience, can stop wondering about this stuff and instead focus on how the characters are dealing with it. Not how to stop it of course, since it's well established to Heartseed is invincible, but just how to cope with it. Which happens to be the entirety of the story.
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Old 2012-08-12, 10:36   Link #1185
s07195
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So I was wondering what the heck Inaba was typing up so fast when Taichi first went into the clubroom, and so it turned out to be a folder of some sort... (So is it fake typing? )



The image is small cuz I watch it on an anime hosting website.
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Old 2012-08-12, 11:25   Link #1186
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by s07195 View Post
So I was wondering what the heck Inaba was typing up so fast when Taichi first went into the clubroom, and so it turned out to be a folder of some sort... (So is it fake typing? )



The image is small cuz I watch it on an anime hosting website.
She was looking at porn -- remember, that's why she got a sudden urge to jump Taichi's bones. Once he entered the room, she obviously went into, "Oh, innocent me is just sitting here working on the paper," mode.
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Old 2012-08-12, 11:31   Link #1187
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Actually, it looks like Inaba is working on Excel.
Also, she most likely claimed to have glanced to a NSW picture, in order not to let Taichi think she has lust for him.
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Old 2012-08-12, 11:33   Link #1188
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I wonder if we're going to get an evolving ED. What with all the line art and all.

Last edited by eupseudes; 2012-08-12 at 11:34. Reason: s/EP/ED/
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Old 2012-08-12, 11:51   Link #1189
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Forget Q, the ST: TNG you need to watch is "Where Silence Has Lease". The analog for Heartseed is definitely Nagilum.

I think a rejection of Heartseed is basically a rejection of Kokoro Connect, because Heartseed is basically the entire premise for the series. It's not a school romance or slice-of-life - it's a show about a mysterious entity and the experimentation he performs on a bunch of kids. Complaining that's he's an author's avatar or deux ex machina seems quite odd to me - what Heartseed does isn't plot convenience, it's just plot. If you don't like the plot, that's fine - but why would you expect something different? It's like saying "I like Moby Dick except for the whole whale thing."

And I heartily agree that the writing treatment of teenaged males in anime today is atrocious, one of the biggest problems facing the medium. KC isn't good in the respect - there are shows that are far worse, but that doesn't let KC off the hook. And the whole concept of playing girls beating up boys for comedy is tired, insulting and unfunny. This series is usually very good at drama and very weak at comedy, and the latter is never more evident than when they play the violent teenage girl card.
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:41   Link #1190
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think a rejection of Heartseed is basically a rejection of Kokoro Connect, because Heartseed is basically the entire premise for the series. It's not a school romance or slice-of-life - it's a show about a mysterious entity and the experimentation he performs on a bunch of kids. Complaining that's he's an author's avatar or deux ex machina seems quite odd to me - what Heartseed does isn't plot convenience, it's just plot. If you don't like the plot, that's fine - but why would you expect something different? It's like saying "I like Moby Dick except for the whole whale thing."
I do think that there is an aspect of it all that is supposed to be inherently frustrating. I think back to all the stories I've read/watched where the "hand of the author" is all too visible, and you can see clearly that plot elements are being introduced completely unnaturally simply to create artificial drama and force the story forward. But here, that is the plot of this show. The issue is that you want to care for the characters and, at least speaking personally, they're really likeable people. You want to see them succeed. When you realize that the story's basic premise is to allow the author to introduce whatever random elements they want to their story just to "see how it all plays out" (or "because it's interesting")... it's actually pretty twisted. In the process of manipulating the characters, all the author is really doing is manipulating the audience (because the characters don't exist, of course); "making us" care for completely artificial characters by forcing them in artificial situations caused "just because I can". And the most frustrating thing is that it works, even though it's completely obvious we (in the audience) are being played like fools the whole time. Why do we care for these fake people, their fake lives, and their fake problems both inherent and introduced by a fake and completely unbelievable "god"? We really are just "intelligent animals" in the end. But again, that's the whole point. The show is asking the question of us: what does it mean to be human? And I have to admire that sort of ambition.

This story is taking the basic building blocks of storytelling and drama and throwing them in our face in the most plain and inelegant ways, as if to say "this is the ugly truth of what authors do all the time when writing stories, and I'm not going to bother trying to hide it at all". And in the process is showcasing the "ugly truth" (or is it a beautiful truth?) of how human empathy can overcome even that sort of manipulation; the characters are being manipulated, we're being manipulated, but we can still care for these "people" anyway! I can't decide if the author is extremely cynical, or extremely wise... maybe both.

(All that to say, I agree with what others have said: there's nothing to fix. What's broken isn't the show, it's us. We're only just starting to figure that out.)
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:43   Link #1191
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Forget Q, the ST: TNG you need to watch is "Where Silence Has Lease". The analog for Heartseed is definitely Nagilum.
Nah, go back to the inspiration for them both -- Tralane from the original series. Just a bored little kid with a magnifying glass who's found some ants.

Quote:
I think a rejection of Heartseed is basically a rejection of Kokoro Connect, because Heartseed is basically the entire premise for the series. It's not a school romance or slice-of-life - it's a show about a mysterious entity and the experimentation he performs on a bunch of kids. Complaining that's he's an author's avatar or deux ex machina seems quite odd to me - what Heartseed does isn't plot convenience, it's just plot. If you don't like the plot, that's fine - but why would you expect something different? It's like saying "I like Moby Dick except for the whole whale thing."
Heartseed setting the plot in motion and driving it forward isn't a deus ex machina, I agree, however the first arc getting resolved when he says, "Bored now," without the protagonists really doing anything, is. Given the situation, I don't see how the protagonists can resolve their situation short of Taichi giving a big Kirk Speech and convincing Heartseed to stop, which makes for a lame story. The character interactions are still interesting, but the heroes being entirely reactive and incapable of driving the plot themselves is a problem.
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:47   Link #1192
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A thought: Yui stayed home the day Heartseed explained the new situation. I wonder if Inaba's comment that hiding in their rooms probably wouldn't work was made in reference to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, it looks like Inaba is working on Excel.
Also, she most likely claimed to have glanced to a NSW picture, in order not to let Taichi think she has lust for him.
Yeah, I'm surprised some people took that explanation at face value. I mean, I guess it's possible that's what she was doing, but it sounded to me like an excuse to define the desire as a general one rather than specifically Taichi-related. I doubt very much she saw anything of the sort, accidentally or otherwise.

Taichi's narration suggests she was probably working on the club newsletter. What immediately preceded her sudden impulse was teasing Taichi; specifically him commenting on her joke about "taking out her frustrations" on him. We didn't get to hear the voice in her head, but I don't think we need to in this case.
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:51   Link #1193
Blonto
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I agree that rejecting Heartseed in a series like this (whose entire premise can only go up regarding explanation) is basically rejecting the series itself, but I think adding something more to his story would truly make the series stand out. This way he's just there and we'll probably know about him in the end as much as we know now. I feel that's a wasted opportunity.

To give them some credit, Inaba hit Yui once for doing something dumb, it's just that the guys tend to say more things that don't sit well with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Did anyone notice the crocodile slippers too? It was quite popular some time back for their comfort, but also had a tendency to get stuck in the corners of escalators.
I noticed them right away! Didn't expect to see them in anime.
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:49   Link #1194
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think a rejection of Heartseed is basically a rejection of Kokoro Connect, because Heartseed is basically the entire premise for the series. It's not a school romance or slice-of-life - it's a show about a mysterious entity and the experimentation he performs on a bunch of kids. Complaining that's he's an author's avatar or deux ex machina seems quite odd to me - what Heartseed does isn't plot convenience, it's just plot. If you don't like the plot, that's fine - but why would you expect something different? It's like saying "I like Moby Dick except for the whole whale thing."
It's probably a matter of interpretation.

The way I see it, Heartseed isn't so much part of the premise as he is a justification for the premise, and a poor one at that. The story's focal point lies in the interactions between the main cast in response to certain conditions. HS is more of a periphery element rather than a crucial point in the story. The way things are, you could probably replace HS without affecting the story's content at all. The author may as well take all the plot twists and hooks that come up and claim that an alien did it, particularly one named "Heartseed".

Oh, and that part about HS being the author's avatar wasn't a complaint. In fact, I would find it pretty clever if the author wrote him into the story with that intention in mind. But it wouldn't help its quality as a story. The reason why things like deus ex machina and melodrama are generally frowned upon is because there are writers who are unable to justify plot and character developments believably in a manner that retains the audience's suspension of disbelief. This here is a similar case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This story is taking the basic building blocks of storytelling and drama and throwing them in our face in the most plain and inelegant ways, as if to say "this is the ugly truth of what authors do all the time when writing stories, and I'm not going to bother trying to hide it at all". And in the process is showcasing the "ugly truth" (or is it a beautiful truth?) of how human empathy can overcome even that sort of manipulation; the characters are being manipulated, we're being manipulated, but we can still care for these "people" anyway! I can't decide if the author is extremely cynical, or extremely wise... maybe both.
I think you're giving the author too much credit, though I guess there really is very little way of telling whether the haphazard writing was inspired or or just plain lazy. But the author's intentions aside, the writing is still pretty bad despite having fairly good characters.

For now, it looks like the best way for me to enjoy this show is to view Heartseed as an entity that exists outside the story, a sort of meta existence that pulls the strings behind the scenes. Then, I'd interpret him as a reference to the omnipotence and omniscience that an author holds over the characters of a story, something like Sophie's World if anyone here knows about it.
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:54   Link #1195
Dop
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I am hoping in the end we do get to find out more of Heartseed's motivation, is he just being obnoxious for the sake of it or has he got some hidden agenda which, when revealed, will show his actions in a new light?

As an aside, am I the only person here who gets completely sick and tired of people crying "emasculation, emasculation" all the time on this and other threads?
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:58   Link #1196
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Originally Posted by Dop View Post
As an aside, am I the only person here who gets completely sick and tired of people crying "emasculation, emasculation" all the time on this and other threads?
I don't try to get into any arguments over it, but the repetition of it can get a little grating.
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Old 2012-08-12, 15:47   Link #1197
webkid94
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http://kokoro-connect.com/release/bddvd_7.html

Confirmed from the official Kokoro Connect website that the series is 17 episodes. Woot~~ Love odd numbered shows!
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Old 2012-08-12, 15:51   Link #1198
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I think you're giving the author too much credit, though I guess there really is very little way of telling whether the haphazard writing was inspired or or just plain lazy. But the author's intentions aside, the writing is still pretty bad despite having fairly good characters.

For now, it looks like the best way for me to enjoy this show is to view Heartseed as an entity that exists outside the story, a sort of meta existence that pulls the strings behind the scenes. Then, I'd interpret him as a reference to the omnipotence and omniscience that an author holds over the characters of a story, something like Sophie's World if anyone here knows about it.
I think you're actually seeing what I was getting at. I think the way the story is written is exactly befitting the Heartseed character. If you think of Heartseed as the author's view of "god" (this sort of powerful, unfathomable, cruel puppet master who has some bizarre sense of fairness despite otherwise seeming quite menacing), then the author is also playing "god" in the same sort of way in the story's plot. But, at the same time, special care is shown by the author to make the human characters in the story somewhat believable (and "human-seeming") despite their situation. I think this is because they are supposed to represent different facets of ourselves in the audience. I don't think we are supposed to be able to really understand Heartseed, and his appearances in the story are supposed to be convenient without pretense. He is the most blunt of plot devices in a show that's all about exposing its plot devices.

So anyway, to me, the "pretty bad" "haphazard" writing is part of the meta-narrative of the work. If the writing were "good" (by common definitions), I don't know that it would communicate the same point (to me anyway) about how we're all just puppets in someone else's play. The story itself is an image of the message. That doesn't mean we have to like it; in fact, maybe we shouldn't like it. But I think it's somehow compelling at the same time.
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Old 2012-08-12, 15:54   Link #1199
Lantern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webkid94 View Post
http://kokoro-connect.com/release/bddvd_7.html

Confirmed from the official Kokoro Connect website that the series is 17 episodes. Woot~~ Love odd numbered shows!
That's great! Though I have minor concern whether they can fit Volume 4 into four episodes.

Last edited by Lantern; 2012-08-12 at 17:07.
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Old 2012-08-12, 16:09   Link #1200
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Originally Posted by webkid94 View Post
http://kokoro-connect.com/release/bddvd_7.html

Confirmed from the official Kokoro Connect website that the series is 17 episodes. Woot~~ Love odd numbered shows!
does this mean that the last 4 episodes will be blu-ray only?
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