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Old 2013-10-28, 12:35   Link #5521
Village Idiot
Fate/ Stay Night
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
This is a good point to clarify. Est currently possess ten percent of her original power, as in what she had when Areshia was her master. Restia is at full power at the time she reunites with Kamito. And, yes, he says they are roughly equal in power.

Now for clarification. Est in unsealed form would thrash Restia, and Laeventain (the real thing, not just the sword form), and Greyworth (prior to losing her power) all at once in a matter of seconds. Restia specifically says that she can mess around with Est because she(est) is sealed, but that Restia would have no way to oppose the unsealed Est. She even goes so far as to mention that the Elemental Lords themselves are afraid of her.

In short, if Est wasn't sealed this series would have ended the moment Kamito stepped into the throne room of the Lords.
Actually, Restia in vol 9 mentions she's at less than 50% of her original power due to the corruption within her spreading.
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Old 2013-10-28, 15:16   Link #5522
Ophis
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Actually, Restia in vol 9 mentions she's at less than 50% of her original power due to the corruption within her spreading.
Indeed. Restia in the days she won the Blade Dance with Kamito she probably was as strong as 20% of Est's full form.

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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
^ And that's the reason, why I doubt that Est is going to reach her full power, until we are pretty close to fighting the final boss of this story.

Since in other cases, it would make Kamito's fights too predictable, and ... also reduce the number of chances that Kamito's harem could assist him, in his fights.

Finally, there is also the fact that releasing Est would also increase the effectiveness of her curse, which would ultimately result in Kamito reaching a bad end.
Kamito is going to fight a war soon. He will need Est's full power, there probably will be «Archdemon Class» spirit and strategic-military spirit to fight against.
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Old 2013-10-28, 16:18   Link #5523
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
Kamito is going to fight a war soon. He will need Est's full power, there probably will be «Archdemon Class» spirit and strategic-military spirit to fight against.
He'll probably regain Restia, maybe at full power too, and he has support spirit users now.
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Old 2013-10-28, 17:42   Link #5524
Yami no Ou
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
Indeed. Restia in the days she won the Blade Dance with Kamito she probably was as strong as 20% of Est's full form.



Kamito is going to fight a war soon. He will need Est's full power, there probably will be «Archdemon Class» spirit and strategic-military spirit to fight against.
well Kamito can deal with militarized class and archdemon class spirit with the current Est and if he regain Restia thats more than enough
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Old 2013-10-28, 18:03   Link #5525
GetInDaZone222
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I think the most useful point to having Est unsealed isnt the power increase, but the energy consumption rate. Seeing as its a war, he will have to be fighting for a lot longer intervals than he has so far. If he had to fight a war with the current Est, he'd be in bad shape(Especially if he had Restia too). Regarding Est's curse, Im hoping since Kamito has a different disposition than Areishia(The demon king taking on the hatred of spirits should be less harmful than the sacred maiden) he'll have a easier time handling the curse. Maybe if Restia comes back & gets a power up, she'll be able to help him to handle the curse.
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Old 2013-10-28, 18:28   Link #5526
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
This is a good point to clarify. Est currently possess ten percent of her original power, as in what she had when Areshia was her master. Restia is at full power at the time she reunites with Kamito. And, yes, he says they are roughly equal in power.

Now for clarification. Est in unsealed form would thrash Restia, and Laeventain (the real thing, not just the sword form), and Greyworth (prior to losing her power) all at once in a matter of seconds. Restia specifically says that she can mess around with Est because she(est) is sealed, but that Restia would have no way to oppose the unsealed Est. She even goes so far as to mention that the Elemental Lords themselves are afraid of her.

In short, if Est wasn't sealed this series would have ended the moment Kamito stepped into the throne room of the Lords.
Est, or Sacred Sword Est, was at 100% when Areshia was her contractor.

Its the reason why Kamito is given more time before the curse build up starts reaching critical levels and Est starts transfering them over. Because since Est is only at less than 10% of her original power, she only absorbs less than 10% of the curses.

And Est can't reach 100% not just due to Kamito sub-consciously rejecting her, but due to herself sub-consicously rejecting him as well, resulting in the birth of Est and Sacred Sword Est.

He got over it in vol 5 and truely accepted Est. Est two selves are still rejecting one another, and until they come to terms, she can't return to her original power.
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Old 2013-10-28, 18:34   Link #5527
blade82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Est, or Sacred Sword Est, was at 100% when Areshia was her contractor.

Its the reason why Kamito is given more time before the curse build up starts reaching critical levels and Est starts transfering them over. Because since Est is only at less than 10% of her original power, she only absorbs less than 10% of the curses.
her true name is Terminus Est
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Old 2013-10-28, 18:37   Link #5528
Village Idiot
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Originally Posted by blade82 View Post
her true name is Terminus Est
I know, she just shortened her name to Est due to Areshia.

I just called her Sacred Sword Est to differentiate between her two selves.
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Old 2013-10-28, 21:53   Link #5529
Chris38
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Since, Est doesn't want Kamito to suffer the same fate as her previous master did, I think that she's going to keep rejecting her true power, until Kamito and the rest, find some way to remove / neutralize her curse.

It probably won't be done by using the help of the Elemental Lords, so they have to find other means to achieve that - and I personally doubt that it's something that can be done, during a single volume - since, first of all they need to find an solution to this issue (which is going to be hardest, and longest part of this task), and then use their found solution to remove the curse.
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Old 2013-10-28, 22:38   Link #5530
XFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Est, or Sacred Sword Est, was at 100% when Areshia was her contractor.

Its the reason why Kamito is given more time before the curse build up starts reaching critical levels and Est starts transfering them over. Because since Est is only at less than 10% of her original power, she only absorbs less than 10% of the curses.

And Est can't reach 100% not just due to Kamito sub-consciously rejecting her, but due to herself sub-consicously rejecting him as well, resulting in the birth of Est and Sacred Sword Est.

He got over it in vol 5 and truely accepted Est. Est two selves are still rejecting one another, and until they come to terms, she can't return to her original power.
Close but not quite. Est and Terminus Est are now actually separate entities. This was explicitly stated in the fifth novel after she returned. It might still be possible to rejoin the halves, but they aren't currently connected.
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Old 2013-10-28, 23:54   Link #5531
Waxman
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About Restia, didn't she said that when Ren Ashdoll warred with the other elemental lords, as his general she clashed many times with Scarlet in her valkirie form and were evenly matched?
.
Having seen how the water elemental lord was immensely weakened does that mean that when/if Restia is freed she too will lose most of her power?
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Old 2013-10-29, 00:55   Link #5532
Ophis
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Originally Posted by Yami no Ou View Post
well Kamito can deal with militarized class and archdemon class spirit with the current Est and if he regain Restia thats more than enough
No, he cant. He needed the suport of Claire and Ellis and was using both Est and Restia to just deal with one single hand of Laevathein. Now think about Kamito using only Est 10% and against Laevathein full body, he would never win.
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Old 2013-10-29, 02:21   Link #5533
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
No, he cant. He needed the suport of Claire and Ellis and was using both Est and Restia to just deal with one single hand of Laevathein. Now think about Kamito using only Est 10% and against Laevathein full body, he would never win.
hey now Laevateinn is on a completely different level than a militarized and archdemon class spirit cause Laevateinn is the strongest fire spirit,and if its just archdemon class and militarized class Kamito will be fine with just Est
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Old 2013-10-29, 04:56   Link #5534
Libros
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
No, he cant. He needed the suport of Claire and Ellis and was using both Est and Restia to just deal with one single hand of Laevathein. Now think about Kamito using only Est 10% and against Laevathein full body, he would never win.
Didn't Kamito fight an ADM class spirit to get his anti-spirit technique?
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Old 2013-10-29, 06:26   Link #5535
Yami no Ou
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Didn't Kamito fight an ADM class spirit to get his anti-spirit technique?
more like he already have that anti-spirit sword skill to begin with
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Old 2013-10-29, 15:18   Link #5536
Ophis
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Originally Posted by Yami no Ou View Post
hey now Laevateinn is on a completely different level than a militarized and archdemon class spirit cause Laevateinn is the strongest fire spirit,and if its just archdemon class and militarized class Kamito will be fine with just Est
There are different types of militarized spirit, we have yet to see a strategic class one. The hand of Laevattein was on the level of a Arch Demon, even if the entire spirit is stronger than that. The current Kamito and Est cant beat that hand alone.

Vol 11 Chap 2
Quote:
However, the hand extending out from thin air—
(...Archdemon class, at the very least probably.)
Just an arm already produced such astounding heat. Once the main body manifested, surely the entire space itself would be destroyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libros View Post
Didn't Kamito fight an ADM class spirit to get his anti-spirit technique?
True but at that time he was Ren Ashbell and was stronger than he is now, besides, Restia was in full power that time, it would be two times stronger than the current Est.
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Old 2013-10-29, 21:48   Link #5537
XFire
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
There are different types of militarized spirit, we have yet to see a strategic class one. The hand of Laevattein was on the level of a Arch Demon, even if the entire spirit is stronger than that. The current Kamito and Est cant beat that hand alone.

True but at that time he was Ren Ashbell and was stronger than he is now, besides, Restia was in full power that time, it would be two times stronger than the current Est.
You do remember that he fought the giant hand after several days of intensive fighting, awakening as the Demon King, un-awakening (Sleepening?) as the Demon King, and fighting Rubia, right?

And we saw a strategic class spirit. The one Muir used in vol 9 was a strategic class.

Also, Kamito has surpassed his days as Ren Ashbell.

Finally, can someone give me the actual line where Restia says her power is sealed? Because I still don't remember anything like that.
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Old 2013-10-29, 23:55   Link #5538
Yami no Ou
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true Kamito was exhausted before he fought Laevateinn and he also surpassed his power during his Ren Ashbell's days so there is no doubt that Kamito can handle archdemon and strategic class militarized spirit with just Est's 10% power,and regarding Restia's power I don't know of it was ever mentioned that her power was sealed its just my assumption and I don't know about the others
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Old 2013-10-30, 00:20   Link #5539
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
You do remember that he fought the giant hand after several days of intensive fighting, awakening as the Demon King, un-awakening (Sleepening?) as the Demon King, and fighting Rubia, right?

And we saw a strategic class spirit. The one Muir used in vol 9 was a strategic class.

Also, Kamito has surpassed his days as Ren Ashbell.

Finally, can someone give me the actual line where Restia says her power is sealed? Because I still don't remember anything like that.
You do remember that Rubia applied a healing spell on him and that served as to boost to his divine power, right? Kamito used an anti-spirit technique of 36 strikes and defeated Laevattein in the last one. Kamito could never do that with only one sword.

No, it wasnt. At least, I, did not find a reference about «Valaraukar» being a strategic one.

Maybe you could say that Kamito using dual swords has surpassed his past self. But only using Est, he has not.


Restia's power is not sealed. It's corroded by the darkness of another world.

Quote:
"Black thunder that incinerates even souls to nothingness -- «Hell Blast»!"
She mercilessly released high level wide area annihilation magic.
Out burst forth jet black lightning, instantly wiping out the the surging swarm of «Forsaken Spirits».
This was overwhelming power as befitted the highest ranking spirit.
However--
(...Looks like the corrosion has already advanced greatly.)
Pressing her hand against her chest, a painful moan escaped from Restia's lips.
Restia's original power was not merely at this level.
Starting three years ago, when the pitch black «Wish» of the «Elemental Lords» devoured her that day, her very existence had been gradually corroding from within.
Over half of what constituted her being had already been lost.
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Old 2013-10-30, 02:27   Link #5540
Yami no Ou
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Valaraukar is a tactical-class militarized spirit,unless its different from what you are saying,that strategic one and its true that Rubia healed him however do you think that his fatigue will be recovered? he may possess huge amount of Divine Power at that time but his body is almost at its limits due to his fatigue
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