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Old 2014-04-06, 13:27   Link #2861
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
If an author had a definite vision of how it should end it would be very poor to alter it to a largely dissatisfying open end just to please fans of the most popular character(s).
I have no idea if that is the case, but bear in mind that in Japan reader preferences have in the past shaped not only the ending, but the general story of a manga. i.e. Lum was supposedly a one-shot character, but she stayed and became the winner at the end. Shampoo was just the same (albeit she did not won Ranma's heart). Also, Ranma 1/2 started with a more romantic feeling to it and ended up being mostly slapstick. Also, remember how Kannagi was forced into hiatus due to an unfortunate plot decision or how the female lead in School Rumble changed due to fan demand.

So in this times of dwindling magazine prints, it would be no surprise that the author at the very least will try not to anger his fans.
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Old 2014-04-06, 14:44   Link #2862
Chosen_Hero
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I personally think that it's ok if an author changes the ending depending on fan choice, as long as it's done right, gives us a viable reason in the story it should end like that way and is handled with care. I personally think that Nisekoi's author should stick to the RakuxChitoge end because we already have seen a lot of development from them pointing in that direction, while Raku's development with Onodera hasn't even made a dent, they are still the same they were in the beginning of the series.

Fans apprecieate good development, seeing how they change, how they interact and how they deal with it is what makes us follow this kind of series (it could be said it's why shipping exists, when someone clicks with the main character it's difficult not to cheer for them, although we do get people who go overboard).

I'm someone who sometimes likes the whole "first girl = end girl" development, sometimes but most of the times I like one of the other main girls, I'm mostly tired of the "insert unbelieveable girl (idol, cool beauty, etc.) appears out of no where (or gets transferred, or magically falls from the sky, etc.) and the main prltagonkst thinks he found the love of his life" scenario, it's boring. I rather see the one that puts the actual effort win in the end (so what if she stalks him a little, like non of you ever did it once) that's wby I'm a fan of Chitoge (although Tsugumi is my favorite) she actually tries, it's why I'm a fan of Mikoto (she tries, much to the dismay of her haters and to comedic effect but tries), it's why I was and still am a Zessica fan (damn you Aquarion and your fight destiny by following said destiny you are trying to fight), etc. Sadly the vast majority in anime consist of the same clkche that is never going to change.
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Old 2014-04-06, 15:19   Link #2863
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Death Usagi View Post
Well, if we don't want a Deja Vu of what happened with OreImo, then yeah. Open End is the best usually, just to leave things to the fans to speculate after the series ends.
Open endings (in romance) are the worst. They try not to displease anybody and end up making nobody happy. Remember the rage when School Rumble and To Love-ru ended? Nisekoi should have a definitive ending, one that will please at least one part of the fanbase. Incidentally, OreImo's ending is hated because it's half-assed and inconclusive. You want to make an incest ending? Go all the way!
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Old 2014-04-06, 15:35   Link #2864
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Open endings (in romance) are the worst. They try not to displease anybody and end up making nobody happy. Remember the rage when School Rumble and To Love-ru ended? Nisekoi should have a definitive ending, one that will please at least one part of the fanbase. Incidentally, OreImo's ending is hated because it's half-assed and inconclusive. You want to make an incest ending? Go all the way!
IMO School Rumble's ending was half-assed and inconclusive (the mangaka ran out of ideas and didn't even bother with any real closure). TLR I did not see. But OreImo had a conclusive ending (he threw any real life waifu material to pork his sister, only that the ecchi stuff was done off camera because a family oriented magazine publishes the original light novel) and as a Kuroneko fan I am mad since she even offered to share Kyosuke >_<

I wonder how come this genre is still popular because at the end the author is damned if he does, damned if he does not.
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Old 2014-04-06, 15:36   Link #2865
Starshipw
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Winners in a harem manga... Most of these stories start at 14 or 15. Whose life story is decided at that age? If they have a good run they may last until graduation or even college. The real life MC picks a girlfriend at 15 and how many last until Christmas or even next month? What small percent stay together until graduation? Stay together thru college? Get married and live happily ever after?

So are the rest of the harem losers? Not really. They find someone else and live more or less good lives, often happier than they would have been with the boy of their dreams. Shipping wars for fictional characters have only so much attraction for me. I have my favorites, but mainly because I like nice girls. I wouldn't hang around with someone who punched me over the treetops.

KNIM, among much drama that stretched credulity, was in ways realistic. He liked different girls at different times of his life. He had major breakups. His friends split into camps about who was the destined girl he should be with or how he treated the jilted girl. Nearly all the characters found someone to love. Then at the end there were fantasy chapters which showed that life would not have been so horrible whichever girl he chose.
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Old 2014-04-06, 15:45   Link #2866
Ginko08
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
make no mistake I prefer onodera over both of them.
Girls like marika annoy me because they go a bit too far with their feelings.
Girls like chitoge annoy me because their personality takes away from their attractiveness.
Girls like Onodera (even though she's my favorite) generally get the backseat because of the rule of manga (print more volumes make more money). Most manga where the mutual attraction is known and focused on from the start generally don't last very long there are quite a few of those. Fact is if Onodera confessed to Raku as early as it suggested they could. This manga wouldn't have made chapter 50. (which is why they write her so shy to keep that plot going)
I might have liked Onodera if she did exactly that, I hate how she and Raku are both utterly oblivious. Onodera is just kinda boring for me, she doesn't contribute much (not that the others do much more recently), and feels like some standard high school girl, something that seldomly piques my interest, but oh well.
As to Chitoge, I am actually fond of the tsundere archetype, I like their mindsets and their reactions, but I can see why you would be bothered by her aggressive side. I'm one of those who appreciate that, even though meeting her irl would be downright terrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Open endings (in romance) are the worst. They try not to displease anybody and end up making nobody happy. Remember the rage when School Rumble and To Love-ru ended? Nisekoi should have a definitive ending, one that will please at least one part of the fanbase. Incidentally, OreImo's ending is hated because it's half-assed and inconclusive. You want to make an incest ending? Go all the way!
IIRC School Rumble has some side stories that take part after the series which hint at some couples.
And I agree, open endings are horrible. I'd want either a harem end or Raku picking one girl, and as the first one is absolutely impossible in this one, I am hoping for a valid conclusion.
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Old 2014-04-06, 15:47   Link #2867
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
Winners in a harem manga... Most of these stories start at 14 or 15. Whose life story is decided at that age? If they have a good run they may last until graduation or even college. The real life MC picks a girlfriend at 15 and how many last until Christmas or even next month? What small percent stay together until graduation? Stay together thru college? Get married and live happily ever after?

So are the rest of the harem losers? Not really. They find someone else and live more or less good lives, often happier than they would have been with the boy of their dreams. Shipping wars for fictional characters have only so much attraction for me. I have my favorites, but mainly because I like nice girls. I wouldn't hang around with someone who punched me over the treetops.

KNIM, among much drama that stretched credulity, was in ways realistic. He liked different girls at different times of his life. He had major breakups. His friends split into camps about who was the destined girl he should be with or how he treated the jilted girl. Nearly all the characters found someone to love. Then at the end there were fantasy chapters which showed that life would not have been so horrible whichever girl he chose.
But if I wanted that I would be watching some soap opera or japanese drama or something, as much as there are things that don't make sense in romcom anime I don't want it to get too real. It's like with videogames, I don't want it to be too real, if I want complete realism I would go and do it irl.
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Old 2014-04-06, 17:27   Link #2868
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Ginko08 View Post
I might have liked Onodera if she did exactly that, I hate how she and Raku are both utterly oblivious. Onodera is just kinda boring for me, she doesn't contribute much (not that the others do much more recently), and feels like some standard high school girl, something that seldomly piques my interest, but oh well.
As to Chitoge, I am actually fond of the tsundere archetype, I like their mindsets and their reactions, but I can see why you would be bothered by her aggressive side. I'm one of those who appreciate that, even though meeting her irl would be downright terrible.
I'm bothered by Marika's aggressive side but chitoge's problem is her attitude.

Again I do agree onodera and raku are utterly oblivious but lets face it much like TLR the manga would fall apart if they weren't. Here's what would happen if Raku had half a brain.

He'd convince chitoge to talk to the group have a meeting with all of them admit that they faked the relationship and say they did it so you guys would get along. Since both groups care about the kids assumingly the problem ends.
He'd then confess to dera problem is if that happened the manga would end
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Old 2014-04-06, 17:47   Link #2869
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
He'd convince chitoge to talk to the group have a meeting with all of them admit that they faked the relationship and say they did it so you guys would get along. Since both groups care about the kids assumingly the problem ends.
He'd then confess to dera problem is if that happened the manga would end
Why should it end there. Then he gets to know Kosaki better and finds out she's not his dream girl, breaks up with her and pursues another girl. Or they are hunted by angry mobsters who think Chitoge was merely lying to cover up for Raku breaking up with her, as she cares about him and they have to run for their lives and so on, and so on.
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Old 2014-04-06, 18:06   Link #2870
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
He'd convince chitoge to talk to the group have a meeting with all of them admit that they faked the relationship and say they did it so you guys would get along. Since both groups care about the kids assumingly the problem ends.
Living in a country where the mafia (the "carteles") are alive and kicking, I find your solution quite hilarious. Those kind of people think with their guns, the only reason they are not trying to kill each other is because if Raku/Chitoge are engaged, therefore their organizations will fusion in the future, fighting each other would be akin to having your left hand try to cut your right leg (as in, no matter how dumb you are, you don't do that). The moment their fake relationship ends is hunting season all over again, they only care for Raku or Chitoge, not for both. They might spare chitoge and raku out of the heirs desires, but that does not mean they will not try to exterminate the opposing organization.

Either they marry each other or one of the organizations leave the others area of operation. There is no middle ground.
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Old 2014-04-06, 18:33   Link #2871
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Why should it end there. Then he gets to know Kosaki better and finds out she's not his dream girl, breaks up with her and pursues another girl. Or they are hunted by angry mobsters who think Chitoge was merely lying to cover up for Raku breaking up with her, as she cares about him and they have to run for their lives and so on, and so on.
Idk if that's cause your a chitoge fan or because you're a jokester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Living in a country where the mafia (the "carteles") are alive and kicking, I find your solution quite hilarious. Those kind of people think with their guns, the only reason they are not trying to kill each other is because if Raku/Chitoge are engaged, therefore their organizations will fusion in the future, fighting each other would be akin to having your left hand try to cut your right leg (as in, no matter how dumb you are, you don't do that). The moment their fake relationship ends is hunting season all over again, they only care for Raku or Chitoge, not for both. They might spare chitoge and raku out of the heirs desires, but that does not mean they will not try to exterminate the opposing organization.

Either they marry each other or one of the organizations leave the others area of operation. There is no middle ground.
I cant imagine the brutality of the true cartels but you should be well aware that most real life dynamics don't exist in manga (its what makes them so fun). Still I get what you're saying
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Old 2014-04-06, 19:01   Link #2872
LeaD36
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FYI Mafias exist in every country with a population exceeding roughly 500k-1kk.
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Old 2014-04-06, 19:18   Link #2873
mangamuscle
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FYI Mafias exist in every country with a population exceeding roughly 500k-1kk.
I would go as far as to say you only need a city to have a local "thieves guild". But most of the time mafias do their thing in the shadows, you do not see often one group fight the other and if they do, they try to exterminate the other in one single night if possible (cue to one of The Godfathers movies). But if both groups are about the same strength, a fight can last for years and cost then of thousands of lives (those are no estimates, but actual figures, I will spare you the link to the actual monthly tally). So my point was that if they could not eliminate each other quickly, the heads of the organization decided to put their offspring in a fake relationship, I would not be surprised if these was arranged ten years ago and would not be surprised that by the end of high school they will get the news that their wedding has already been arranged (what a better plan to deceive those two?). Even if they do not love each other they will care for each other too much to go against such arranged marriage, they do not desire to kill each other and running away would only mean many people would die instead.
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Old 2014-04-06, 21:17   Link #2874
SuitUp
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^
Were this a drama series grounded in serious reality, I would tend to agree, but this is a goddamn romcom, a clichéd one at that, and your description, while somewhat acurated (not entirely, but it's rather impossible to have a good insight on mafia's business unless you're either a history buff or an actual mobster) it's too goddamn serious to use on the context of this manga.
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Old 2014-04-06, 21:56   Link #2875
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by SuitUp View Post
^
Were this a drama series grounded in serious reality, I would tend to agree, but this is a goddamn romcom, a clichéd one at that, and your description, while somewhat acurated (not entirely, but it's rather impossible to have a good insight on mafia's business unless you're either a history buff or an actual mobster) it's too goddamn serious to use on the context of this manga.
bro calm down yea its not realistic but don't bite the persons head off. Either way back to the topic we had going. is it good or bad for tsugumi/marika to find out about the faked relationship between raku and chitoge
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Old 2014-04-06, 22:17   Link #2876
Lazy cat
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marika would love it, that would mean that chitoge and raku aren't realy in love with each other (actualy chitoge is but marika wouldn't know), in worst case scenario she could use her father influence to interfere with the gangs so they can't figth(don't ask me how)

tsugumi would be very conflicted because of the thrust cloud have in her, but in the end would chose to help chitoge and ichijou while not having to hold back

conclusion
marika: is too imprevisible
tsugumi: that would be good

Last edited by Lazy cat; 2014-04-07 at 14:15.
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Old 2014-04-06, 22:51   Link #2877
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by Lazy cat View Post
marika would love it, that would mean that chitoge and raku aren't realy in love with each other (actualy chitoge is but marika wouldn't know), in worst case scenario she could use her father influence to interfere with the gangs so they can't figth(don't ask me how)

tsugumi would be very conflicted because of the thrust cloud have in her but in the end would chose to help chitoge and ichijou while not having to hold back

conclusion
marika: is too imprevisible
tsugumi: that would be good
If the police force got involved the fights would intensify and make an even bigger mess.

Also not trying to be a grammar nazi but can you please edit your comment, I alnost jad a heaet attack when I read the "thrust cloud have in her but" part. don't misunderstand me, I find it hilarious but you'll confuse some people with that.
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Old 2014-04-06, 23:07   Link #2878
SuitUp
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No, no, let him keep it that way, it's even better than what he intended to say
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Old 2014-04-07, 01:36   Link #2879
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
Idk if that's cause your a chitoge fan or because you're a jokester.
I was joking.
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Old 2014-04-07, 04:11   Link #2880
ImperialFlameGod8190
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fair enough. Glad we have a fun topic going on instead of the wars im sorry for being so intense guys
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