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Old 2012-04-03, 13:36   Link #201
August138
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Roger: In the original plan for YAMATO in 1974, and dropped from the narrative, was that the nations of the Earth Defense Force rotate in one year stints, and 2199 was Japan's year.
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Old 2012-04-03, 13:51   Link #202
Ithekro
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What would the point be for that system when you are in a total war with Gamilus?

Though that would indicate that there are (or were) other fleets of different nationalities other than Japanese. As First Fleet seems to clearly have been made up of all Japanese ships (judging by the names written on the sides of the ships).

Though I do recall 1974 radio chatter from several other countries reporting radiation depths and or signing off to Defense Force Command. Followed by of course Yamato III and the other space battleships supposedly build by other countries for exploration work. Aside from that I recall no other mention of any countries aside from Japan.
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Old 2012-04-03, 15:24   Link #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
What would the point be for that system when you are in a total war with Gamilus?
What system? Ranking system? Remember, in 2199 there was a previous interplanetary war between the Earth and one or more colonies (probably Mars). So, they would've have already had that system into place just for exploration in a military system. Unless you meant something else, and it went over my head. Sorry!

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Though that would indicate that there are (or were) other fleets of different nationalities other than Japanese. As First Fleet seems to clearly have been made up of all Japanese ships (judging by the names written on the sides of the ships).
It's not known in this version, if Japan is the last nation standing, as it was in the 1974 series. The Yamato was originally built to escape Earth's doom, and after being contacted by Iscandar (and given the WME tech) did they decide to go on a roundtrip mission to save the Earth.

The questions you are asking are the same questions that a lot of Japanese fans have been asking since the original broadcast, and the staff of 2199 said that they are going to address them, fill the holes, or do away with, some of these inconsistencies or missing bits.

You might want to read some of the interviews with them on the official Star Blazers website that went up yesterday. Oh, and there's now an English scanlation of the 2199 manga that went live yesterday.
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Old 2012-04-03, 15:44   Link #204
Ithekro
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I meant a system of rotating of nations for Earth Defense Forces for a year at a time during a war. Or more a war of total destruction.

I am unsure if that is how the current NATO structure works, but then NATO and the like have not had to fight a total war....well since World War II.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-03 at 16:33.
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Old 2012-04-03, 16:57   Link #205
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I meant a system of rotating of nations for Earth Defense Forces for a year at a time during a war. Or more a war of total destruction.
Especially considering the large level of devastation that the planet bombing has caused, it's questionable if any one country would have the resources to put up even a pretext of resistance against the Gamilon.

It's silly, but I'm not gonna dig at the show because of it. It's still gonna be enjoyable.
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Old 2012-04-03, 19:43   Link #206
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It would make complete sense to get as many people and military equipment involved as possible when your very existence is at stake. The national rotation plan seems to be, how should I put it, inefficient? Time and time again military history has proved that throwing your assets at the enemy piecemeal is wasteful and will lose the battle for you.

On the other hand, in regards as to how easily the Gamillas defeated the Cosmo Navy, it was a good idea (or luck) NOT to have every capable ship present at the battle.

I've always let the "Japan saves the world" thing go because 1) I feel that it's OK for a nation to have some pride in itself and 2) I don't think (and I could be wrong here) that the creators intended for the show to gain worldwide fanship.

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Old 2012-04-03, 19:58   Link #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August138 View Post
Ithekro: Yes, the ranking system was driving me a bit batty; it seems to be a mixture, but according to those working on the series, its foundation is that of the JMSDF, first. So, we may need to work that out I hope that the English Subtitle translator for Bandai's BDs gets them right...
The rank translations have been debated a bit, as there was an argument about whether to "translate" them to ranks that existed in western navies, however I think I managed to convince prod. ig there was no need for that...
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Old 2012-04-03, 20:08   Link #208
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Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
It would make complete sense to get as many people and military equipment involved as possible when your very existence is at stake. The national rotation plan seems to be, how should I put it, inefficient? Time and time again military history has proved that throwing your assets at the enemy piecemeal is wasteful and will lose the battle for you.
Also very vulnerable. Suppose right before it's Japans turn to play defense duty for a year, they get hit by more planet bombs than usual? Now planetary defense has been massively affected due to one region being damaged more than usual by attacks.
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Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
On the other hand, in regards as to how easily the Gamillas defeated the Cosmo Navy, it was a good idea (or luck) NOT to have every capable ship present at the battle.
As others have mentioned, the Cosmo Navies actions at Pluto are less a random heroic last stand, and more a calculated move to draw fire from the Iscandar ship coming in. It's simply a cost benefit analysis.

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Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
I've always let the "Japan saves the world" thing go because 1) I feel that it's OK for a nation to have some pride in itself and 2) I don't think (and I could be wrong here) that the creators intended for the show to gain worldwide fanship.
The thing that got me was that it was less "Japan saves the world" and more "Japan calling itself the world saves the world". But you're right about national pride...or at least ethnocentrism of wanting to see characters of a similar nationality. That's why in Star Trek the Captain of the Enterprise is a macho American.

Though I'm not sure #2 is an excuse. Going by Star Trek again, I really doubt they were planning it to be an international phenomena either. But they were still conscious of giving the future international space crew an actual international feel. It's not like having an international team/crew was unprecedented in anime, what with Cyborg 009 (even the protaganist character was still only half Japanese).



But I'd like to emphasize that this is NOT something that is going to effect my enjoyment of this series.
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Old 2012-04-03, 20:23   Link #209
Ithekro
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Well there is always this:
Spoiler for large picture: possible future:
http://lighthousezen.up.seesaa.net/image/2201title.jpg

Yes I know it is a April Fool's gag from http://lighthousezen.seesaa.net/. I want it anyway.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the rank translations: I don't think they are needed in the episodes themselves unless someone specifically calls someone by their rank, which I don't often hear in any show like this.

What I would like is maybe some sort of order to the ranks as a side item. The rank can be presented in whatever fashion is appropriate, just as long as the order is correct. Each country and service is different and uses different terms....but they almost always match up in some way to everyone else. With a few random "in-between" or subdivided ranks thrown in from time to time by one country or service or another.

The Department Uniform colors may also need an update, but so far I've only seen two new ones (Medical/nurse = pink (possible custom made as the nurse's uniform is rather different), and Security = grey)

The rest about other countries other than Japan surviving the War will probably wait until a future episode or even series to see the aftermath of the war. Assuming that basically Yamato leaves and we don't get all that much about Earth again aside for flashbacks until the last episode or even next potental series.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-03 at 21:15. Reason: Ranks, Uniforms, and Other Countries.
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:13   Link #210
August138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I meant a system of rotating of nations for Earth Defense Forces for a year at a time during a war. Or more a war of total destruction.
Sorry, originally it was supposedly organized to rotate to allow time for each country to band resources together for their respective stints. Not that any of it makes sense; I'm just imparting the facts, for better or worse.
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:24   Link #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post

The thing that got me was that it was less "Japan saves the world" and more "Japan calling itself the world saves the world". But you're right about national pride...or at least ethnocentrism of wanting to see characters of a similar nationality. That's why in Star Trek the Captain of the Enterprise is a macho American.

Though I'm not sure #2 is an excuse. Going by Star Trek again, I really doubt they were planning it to be an international phenomena either. But they were still conscious of giving the future international space crew an actual international feel. It's not like having an international team/crew was unprecedented in anime, what with Cyborg 009 (even the protaganist character was still only half Japanese).
Speaking of Star Trek.
Has anyone noted that in the English Translation (link from Starblazers.com) one of the crewmen on the bridge of the Kirishima says "Phaser Gun power has failed!"
Is that just a mistranslation, or are the beam weapons of the UNCN ships referred to as "phasers?"

Also, I noticed that the numbers and types of ships are different.
In the English translation of the manga the Gamilas types are listed as:

3 Dreadnaughts
7 Battleships
22 cruisers
and numerous destroyers.

The mid-sized Earth ships are also called "cruisers" not "battleships" in the manga.

Not sure if the English translator is making mistakes or if the manga differs slightly from the anime.
Does anyone here know?
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:29   Link #212
August138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
The rank translations have been debated a bit, as there was an argument about whether to "translate" them to ranks that existed in western navies, however I think I managed to convince prod. ig there was no need for that...
Excellent; at least we can have them standardized, based on your work (which I'm eagerly looking forward to)!

BTW, I had some insight into the song the crew of the Yukikaze sing as they fly into the jaws of death it has a basis in a similar anthem sung by rocket pilots in Ishiro Honda's GORATH, entitled 「俺ら宇宙のパイロット」(We're Space Pilots): http://youtu.be/RHPnkQwgeYY
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:38   Link #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Speaking of Star Trek.
Has anyone noted that in the English Translation (link from Starblazers.com) one of the crewmen on the bridge of the Kirishima says "Phaser Gun power has failed!"
Is that just a mistranslation, or are the beam weapons of the UNCN ships referred to as "phasers?"

Also, I noticed that the numbers and types of ships are different.
In the English translation of the manga the Gamilas types are listed as:

3 Dreadnaughts
7 Battleships
22 cruisers
and numerous destroyers.

The mid-sized Earth ships are also called "cruisers" not "battleships" in the manga.

Not sure if the English translator is making mistakes or if the manga differs slightly from the anime.
Does anyone here know?
I'm the translator. No mistakes. Double and triple checked.

巡洋艦 (Juyokan) = "Cruiser"
戦艦 (Senkan) = "Battleship"
フェザー胞 (Fuezaa Hou) = Phaser Gun/Cannon

Yes, the manga differs from the anime so they will compliment each other.
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:55   Link #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August138 View Post
I'm the translator. No mistakes. Double and triple checked.

巡洋艦 (Juyokan) = "Cruiser"
戦艦 (Senkan) = "Battleship"
フェザー胞 (Fuezaa Hou) = Phaser Gun/Cannon

Yes, the manga differs from the anime so they will compliment each other.
Wow, thank you very much August138 for taking the time and putting the effort into doing this for all of us.

I meant no offense to you BTW, I was just a little confused.

I am happy to see the "shout-out" to Star Trek in the manga.
Very cool IMO.

Thank you again for spending your time doing this, it is appreciated very much.
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Old 2012-04-03, 23:44   Link #215
August138
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GundamFan0083,
No offense taken — happy to help!
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Old 2012-04-04, 04:43   Link #216
Ithekro
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I'm plotting already.

The miniatures game has all but the new Earth Cruisers already made (though not to the revised scale, but the older scale). I could put on a revised Battle at Pluto fairly easily. Thoug the Earth Fleet will lose....regardless of what changes I might need to make for the Kirishima or craft up a sheet for the new cruisers. Even if I leave the Gamilons the same, they will still outnumber the UNCF and with a full on Battleship on the table, completely outclass them.

I could probably get away with using the miniatures for both the torpedo destroyers and the Kirishima as is....just use the game Kirishima mini (called a Mogami-class cruiser in game) as the cruisers and use one of the Bandai models as the Battleship Kirishima. (It would be huge and important looking next to the three or so inch long Gamilon battleship and the centimeter of so long rest of the ships).
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Old 2012-04-04, 08:01   Link #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I'm plotting already.

The miniatures game has all but the new Earth Cruisers already made (though not to the revised scale, but the older scale). I could put on a revised Battle at Pluto fairly easily. Thoug the Earth Fleet will lose....regardless of what changes I might need to make for the Kirishima or craft up a sheet for the new cruisers. Even if I leave the Gamilons the same, they will still outnumber the UNCF and with a full on Battleship on the table, completely outclass them.

I could probably get away with using the miniatures for both the torpedo destroyers and the Kirishima as is....just use the game Kirishima mini (called a Mogami-class cruiser in game) as the cruisers and use one of the Bandai models as the Battleship Kirishima. (It would be huge and important looking next to the three or so inch long Gamilon battleship and the centimeter of so long rest of the ships).
Can you get some pics of the game? I would be interested in seeing that.

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Old 2012-04-04, 12:31   Link #218
Ithekro
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When and if I do that game. At present it might be September at CelestiCon, but I am unsure of that at present.

Though I do not think we've ever done a game using the pre-Yamato Earth fleet. It just was not as interesting before. We usually focus on 2201 or 2202 era combat, or hypothetical actions after 2205.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-04 at 20:45. Reason: new post needed
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Old 2012-04-04, 20:46   Link #219
Ithekro
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I've managed to make some avatar sized versions of the patches, though they doesn't look all that pretty as I only partly cleaned them up from the tiny images they were at first.



...
...
...
...
.

*And that is about all I can do.

Color Coding for the three box avatars to match uniforms (approximate):

Black on white: Possibly Command (generic avatar)
Red on white: Combat Division
Green of white: Navigation Division
Black on yellow: Life Sciences Division
Blue on white: Science Division
Orange on white: Engineering Division
Black on pink: Medical Division (Nurse only know wearer)
Black on grey: Security Division
Yellow on black: Black Tigers - Fighter Squadrons
Yellow on blue: Alternate Fighter Squadrons - (based on fighter paint jobs)



(...They are only 3 day left...)
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-05 at 13:38.
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Old 2012-04-05, 05:36   Link #220
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ah thanks Ithekro
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