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Old 2011-11-21, 15:21   Link #21
Shai-Lang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think that "Moe" is now well beyond being a fad. A fad is something that lasts 2, 3, 4 years at most, imo.

"Moe" has now been dominant in the anime industry for a significantly longer span than that.

At this juncture, I would say that moe is to anime what spandex-clad super-heroes are to American comic books. In other words, it predominates the entertainment genre/medium, and it has become "the face" of it in public consciousness.


While I sympathize with older anime fans who became fans at a time when moe didn't predominate anime as a whole (though there were some elements of it around even back then), I also think at some point people need to accept that this is modern anime. This is what defines it, like it or not. There's nothing particularly illegitimate about it. In fact, I think it shows a degree of cultural arrogance to expect Japan's culture (and its exports, like anime) to be more or less identical to America's. What the Japanese find appealing, attractive, sexy, etc... will sometimes clash with what Americans do, but the Japanese people have a right to their cultural preferences, imo, just as we have a right to ours.


Also, given how popular "Moe" is with the majority of those who buy the actual anime DVDs/Blu-Rays (as well as assorted figurines and merchandise), I don't see its dominance going away anytime soon. If people want "Moe" to go away, maybe they should start financially supporting the less moe-driven shows that the anime industry puts out (may I suggest Fate/Zero?)

All of that being said, "Moe" will probably eventually be eclipsed by something else, much like how moe eclipsed mecha many moons ago. But what that something is I honestly have no idea, and I do think it will arise naturally out of Japan itself, rather than from us foreign fans. It might also be a decade or more before that something arises.


It's unfortunate for some older fans, but all I can say is be patient and wait for it, or perhaps try to rediscover North American animation. I've seen some of the modern Thundercats animated show. To a great extent, it's like modern anime only with the American cultural flavor that I think some older anime fans would like to see more of.
Just because it's a cultural thing doesn't mean I have to agree with it. There are plenty of bad and backward things about other cultures that we should try to change. Look at the Arab countries for example....

The fact of the matter is, this Moe obsession is a direct reflection on Japan's views on women. Hell, a Japanese person critisized the Moe craze as well!! Critically acclaimed Hayao Miyazaki said that he's getting worried about the media representation of women and most disturbingly, young girls. He said he hates how the anime fandom seems to think that its okay to treat little girls as "pets" or sex slaves. He's Japanese and he's critisizing his own culture, even he realizes it, so this opinion of mine can hardly be called racist, it's just cutting out all the fluff and telling it like it is.

Moe anime is sexist and demeaning to women

Also while there might have been Moe in older anime as well, the main difference is that the girls weren't so blantly young. Even America's obsession with sex doesn't go as far as to sexualize young girls.
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:27   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai-Lang View Post
First of all, your extremely sexist icon doesn't do you any favors to help your argument....
Umm ... let's leave out moving towards the area of calling others "sexist" or such in the discussion. Not saying you actually did say so to the poster, but you seem to be taking a pretty strong line AND using strong words to support it.

Just my opinion, mind you, in the hopes that discussions would stay "civil"?
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:31   Link #23
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Personally I think if anything is hurting anime right now it's that it's basically struggling to differentiate itself from the light novel/Visual Novel scene, not specifically moe. This mostly relates to TV series though. There just honestly used to be a greater variety of themes, settings, character types and scenarios before light novels started getting popular. Now even with shows you wouldn't expect to see someone in a maid costume or cat ears in, where you wouldn't expect to see someone in a school setting, where you wouldn't expect to see a tsundere archtype personality or a hapless male lead, where you wouldn't expect to see a beach episode or a guy adopting a cute little girl into his home or whatever....now these things are in these shows and it just feels like pandering to me.

It's to the point where anytime a show doesn't have a school setting, cute girls in strange outfits doing cute things everywhere, and just in general things you'd see in your average light novel I applaud it. That shouldn't need to be the case, but it is. TV anime has just gotten a little too stagnant and beholden to a select few specific elements and is not making much progress as a medium lately at all that I can see. I thought this season would be a little different, but even the shows I like (and some I don't) are clearly being held back a bit by what looks a complete lack of modern writers ability to create a scenario without mining the Light Novel scene for what is popular right now and then putting those things in the show to pander and get a bigger audience (?) and it's kind of caught me completely off-guard....at least initially.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2011-11-21 at 15:43. Reason: fixed a few things
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:32   Link #24
0utf0xZer0
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The opening poster in this thread seems to have a rather profound misunderstanding of moe and what its fans see in it.

Let’s start from the top. Conceptually, moe is a feeling. One way of defining it is that a “moe character” makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, maybe even a bit like your brain melted from her (or in a few cases, his) cuteness. There are also those that see moe as a protective feeling towards a characters too, but I tend strongly towards the former definition.

Of course, due to the personal nature of moe feelings, personal preferences in moe characters vary widely. So in general usage, “moe character” tends to become “a cute character otaku like”.

So starting with that definition, the idea that moe is about “jacking off to young, defenseless girls” holds very little weight. Is Aisaka Taiga defenseless? What about Misaka Mikoto? Rin Tohsaka? Fujibayashi Kyou? Sakagami Tomoyo? Even pint-sized little Taiga can kick some serious ass, that’s why she’s nicknamed the palmtop tiger. And I wouldn’t call them particularly childish either. Rin, Kyou, and Tomoyo certainly aren’t. I’ll admit teasability is part of the appeal of Rin and Kyou, but they’ll give as good as they get so that hardly makes them childish. Mikoto and Taiga do have some childish moments when they’re either very happy or frustrated, but otherwise come across as teenagers. And let’s be honest, the “little angel” routine Taiga pulls off sometimes when she’s in a good mood is adorable.

As for the frequent use of “jacking off” by the OP, moe is more about feelings of “she’s adorable” than “I want to jerk off to her”. Look at how much effort shows like K-On! or Taisho Yakyuu Musume put into emphasizing cuteness compared to emphasizing sexiness – its utterly obvious where the main appeal lies. That some fans end up finding them sexually attractive is a function of two things: first, quite a few moe characters are legitimately sexy, even though this is not emphasized. And second, geeks tend to want to have sex with their favourite fictional characters regardless of sexiness. Why do you think that so much pornographic fanfiction exists for Harry Potter? It’s not like Rowling made a particular effort to make her characters appeal to geeky teenage girls.

For reference, BTW, if you actually look up that Miyazaki quote, it long predates the moe boom – early 90s, I believe. Yup, otaku loved cute girls even back then. And honestly, the quote strikes me as extremely hyperbolic, similar to his comment a couple years back that people who use their iPads in public look like they’re making masturbatory gestures.

********************
Now, with that out of the way, I don’t think moe is ruining anime.
First, I find a lot of the stories in moe anime genuinely compelling. And they are hardly all the same. K-On’s second season, for example, is about the feelings a group of friends experience as they approach graduation. Shakugan no Shana, on the other hand, is about a supernaturally gifted young girl coming of age by kicking ass and learning how to have human emotions. And there’s a whole slew of other moe shows I love, those two aren’t even particular favourites of mine. Madoka Magica is great, BTW, lovely juxtaposition of cute and twisted imagery in that one.

Second, the fact there aren’t as many new shows in other genres isn’t, IMO, really due to moe. If you look back a few years, you’ll find a lot of non-moe anime that relied on broadcast revenues instead of DVD revenues. Revenues from broadcast airings of anime have been declining in recent years. Hence, it’s not surprising creators are targeting the DVD market - which has long been a much stronger market for moe anime. There’s plenty of data that suggests that non-otaku Japanese seldom buy DVDs or Bluray in large numbers.
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:50   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The opening poster in this thread seems to have a rather profound misunderstanding of moe and what its fans see in it.

Let’s start from the top. Conceptually, moe is a feeling. One way of defining it is that a “moe character” makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, maybe even a bit like your brain melted from her (or in a few cases, his) cuteness. There are also those that see moe as a protective feeling towards a characters too, but I tend strongly towards the former definition.

Of course, due to the personal nature of moe feelings, personal preferences in moe characters vary widely. So in general usage, “moe character” tends to become “a cute character otaku like”.

So starting with that definition, the idea that moe is about “jacking off to young, defenseless girls” holds very little weight. Is Aisaka Taiga defenseless? What about Misaka Mikoto? Rin Tohsaka? Fujibayashi Kyou? Sakagami Tomoyo? Even pint-sized little Taiga can kick some serious ass, that’s why she’s nicknamed the palmtop tiger. And I wouldn’t call them particularly childish either. Rin, Kyou, and Tomoyo certainly aren’t. I’ll admit teasability is part of the appeal of Rin and Kyou, but they’ll give as good as they get so that hardly makes them childish. Mikoto and Taiga do have some childish moments when they’re either very happy or frustrated, but otherwise come across as teenagers. And let’s be honest, the “little angel” routine Taiga pulls off sometimes when she’s in a good mood is adorable.

As for the frequent use of “jacking off” by the OP, moe is more about feelings of “she’s adorable” than “I want to jerk off to her”. Look at how much effort shows like K-On! or Taisho Yakyuu Musume put into emphasizing cuteness compared to emphasizing sexiness – its utterly obvious where the main appeal lies. That some fans end up finding them sexually attractive is a function of two things: first, quite a few moe characters are legitimately sexy, even though this is not emphasized. And second, geeks tend to want to have sex with their favourite fictional characters regardless of sexiness. Why do you think that so much pornographic fanfiction exists for Harry Potter? It’s not like Rowling made a particular effort to make her characters appeal to geeky teenage girls.

For reference, BTW, if you actually look up that Miyazaki quote, it long predates the moe boom – early 90s, I believe. Yup, otaku loved cute girls even back then. And honestly, the quote strikes me as extremely hyperbolic, similar to his comment a couple years back that people who use their iPads in public look like they’re making masturbatory gestures.

********************
Now, with that out of the way, I don’t think moe is ruining anime.
First, I find a lot of the stories in moe anime genuinely compelling. And they are hardly all the same. K-On’s second season, for example, is about the feelings a group of friends experience as they approach graduation. Shakugan no Shana, on the other hand, is about a supernaturally gifted young girl coming of age by kicking ass and learning how to have human emotions. And there’s a whole slew of other moe shows I love, those two aren’t even particular favourites of mine. Madoka Magica is great, BTW, lovely juxtaposition of cute and twisted imagery in that one.

Second, the fact there aren’t as many new shows in other genres isn’t, IMO, really due to moe. If you look back a few years, you’ll find a lot of non-moe anime that relied on broadcast revenues instead of DVD revenues. Revenues from broadcast airings of anime have been declining in recent years. Hence, it’s not surprising creators are targeting the DVD market - which has long been a much stronger market for moe anime. There’s plenty of data that suggests that non-otaku Japanese seldom buy DVDs or Bluray in large numbers.

Thank you for this post, 0utf0xZer0. You've summed up everything I wanted to say in an astute manner.

I have also heard that moe girls come off to otaku as "girls they want to protect because they're cute/little or like little sisters" much more than sexual objects. That is also true, right?
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:52   Link #26
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Interesting topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai-Lang View Post
The fact of the matter is, this Moe obsession is a direct reflection on Japan's views on women.
More likely, the "moe craze" indicates that the industry has found a theme that's popular, and now they're milking it for all that it's worth. In that regard, it's not so unlike other industries. What's unique is that it deals more with feelings (as 0utf0xZer0 identified), rather than the "sex sells" approach.

These types of discussions about degrading women generally have no winner. Degradation/objectification of women is very real, but those who decry it will never be satisfied. If women are included in shows, the show is frequently criticized for having the women play "stereotypical woman roles" or for going in the opposite extreme. If women aren't included, then the show is criticized for being anti-women for leaving them out entirely. People clamor for strong female characters, but I get the impression that not even the feminists have an idea of what that would look like.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that "moe" is ruining anime. However, if it is, it has little to do with views on women, and more to do with the fact that it's overused and becoming stale.
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:57   Link #27
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To the thread starter:

What exactly are you trying to discuss in this thread? Depending on your reply I may consider closing your thread. Also, can you please show some restraint at how you are coming across? Aside from the poor opening post that doesn't clarify your own understanding of the subject matter you are attempting to discuss, you are now also treading on generalization by making blanket statement. These are the sort of posts that create adverse responses and in turn reduces the chance of any civil exchange of ideas and opinions. If you are honestly trying to engage into a civil discussion with others, then you must attempt a better approach.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:16   Link #28
Shai-Lang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
To the thread starter:

What exactly are you trying to discuss in this thread? Depending on your reply I may consider closing your thread. Also, can you please show some restraint at how you are coming across? Aside from the poor opening post that doesn't clarify your own understanding of the subject matter you are attempting to discuss, you are now also treading on generalization by making blanket statement. These are the sort of posts that create adverse responses and in turn reduces the chance of any civil exchange of ideas and opinions. If you are honestly trying to engage into a civil discussion with others, then you must attempt a better approach.
Alright I'm sorry I'll be civil. I just get so heated up when it comes to women's rights issues.

Anyways, there is a point to this thread. It's supposed to open up a discussion on whether Moe or not is declining the quality of anime, and also if it's objectifying to women.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:32   Link #29
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I think you're mistaken here. It's not like "moe" is a direct representation of all things weak and frail. Moe is such an incredibly diverse subject of appeal that it can mean virtually anything. For instance, I don't consider series like Madoka Magica, Lucky Star, K-ON...To be very moe at all, as it panders to characters arch types I find little appeal in. However, I consider Clannad, Nanoha, Steins;Gate -- very moe. It's very easy for moe to blend into a series and improve on the elements represented in the series. That's not always the case, as a lot of series tend to indulge in moe characters that are presented as moe just for the sake of being moe...And that's generally when you end up with a moeblob, but that discussion is for another time.


And another thing, there is no evidence that moe is intended sexism in any way. Otaku (which btw, is not an accurate example of your typical Japanese) love it, therefore it is popular. That is the only known truth behind the implications of moe. I for one, happen to think the best elements for moe is a character who is tragic, yet capable of fending for herself. Tragedy is a beautiful thing indeed.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:35   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninryu View Post
Moe by itself is not bad, however, when moe is shoved up your face only for the sake of selling without any plot or round characters - it's horrible.
And, when it's generally everywhere, yes. Moe saturation, as I would call it. Plus, you know what. You can blame all the perverted males in Japan. Ratings. Ratings. Ratings.

The real sad effect from the moe marketing. Much of the other genres kinda faded off. Some may exist here and there. But, they're generally dead.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:37   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that "moe" is ruining anime. However, if it is, it has little to do with views on women, and more to do with the fact that it's overused and becoming stale.
This.

Moe isn't directly ruining a lot of modern anime. Overexposure of moe is ruining anime, like any other entertainment industry that has overexposure of some idea. Right now the anime industry reminds me a lot of things like Hollywood's superhero craze, or the medieval fantasy war craze. These things that are directly pandering to a sort of audience in the most soulless way possible.

In previous years (2008-2010) I was getting really worried by the sheer lack of effort put into a lot of production by the anime industry and just how little they tried to tell a story that really spoke from the creator's heart. I usually like to think that a story is a bit of an indirect conversation between a creator and its audience, and that the audience is supposed to understand something about the work/author at the end that goes beyond just your normal on the surface viewing of a show. This is something that wasn't entirely absent in these years, but seemed very hard to find at all with new big franchises like K-ON! flying around.

If there is anything more representative of overexposure of moe to me that is the K-ON! franchise. It is quite possibly one of the most soulless show I have ever personally watched. Marketed at first as a cute girls with music show, it became a gigantic pandering monster that only desired to show off how cute its girls were. Now I won't take a knock against people for liking it (I certainly enjoy more shallow works myself), but when this was supposedly one of the bigger and better things the industry had to offer to the anime crowd in the last few years I can't help but raise an eye brow.

Thankfully there were a few shows that really saved me in these years, and typically they came from the notamina block, but not necessarily. Things like Tatami Galaxy and House of Five Leaves, but also shows like Cross Game and Blue Literature.

That being said, 2011 seems to have subverted a lot of the quality trends of the last couple years (Which I argue is directly tied to overexposure of moe), but a lot of those shows were things that dared to do something different. Shows like Madoka Magica, and Tiger & Bunny. Things like Usagi Drop and Wandering Son. It just makes me think that the industry in general will be better off by moving away from what was the bulk of their 2008-2010 works.

Moe doesn't need to disappear of course, but there is a much needed call for more variety in the industry right now (Of course if we are talking about sales then my point is moot as this is a preferential thing).

I don't know though. I became an anime fan mostly because of the utter lack of creativity and variety presented in most american TV shows in the past (Today I seem to be getting more into them for precisely the things anime lacks, what the hell? ), but it is really starting to seem like the anime industry itself was (And maybe still is, but time will tell) becoming the same sort of shtick that plagues most entertainment mediums and it is this concept of milking any idea or concept dry to the bone before everyone and their dog is sick of the very mention of it.

I just hope the anime industry keeps managing to appeal to me for the very reason I became such a huge fan of it in the first place.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:42   Link #32
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Some objectify women, but then non-moe styled shows do this as well. Other shows of this style do not objectify women in terms of being sexist as in being lesser than man.

Take the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. The moe character is Mikuru, who is passive and subserviant. However who is she subserviant to? Haruhi...a woman. Mikuru is also subserviant and passive to perform her job of blending in as much as possible without being noticed. This does not actually work as Haruhi picks her out for these traits specifically (though her job has still be unnoticed by anyone outside those few she's told).

Take the second moe style character, Yuki. She's quiet and unemotional. She's passive but mostly because she's not involved more than anything else (she observing). She's subserviant due to her nature of observing...but only does things when it is actually required. She takes orders pretty much only from Kyon, and usually it is requests rather than orders (due to Kyon's nature to be passive unless the world is ending.) Yuki, due to her nature, is considered almost godlike, so she is gnerally respected when requesting that she do something.

Then there is Haruhi. Subserviant to no one. Gives orders and expects them to be carried out even if they are pretty much impossible tasks. It takes a lot to get her to back down. She will back down for Kyon, but only because she likes him. And only if what she is doing will harm their friendship (or her place as master to his slave).

For another series, K-On, while Mio is the scary cat of the group (under her cool exterior) as well as the popular one, the rest show no signs of being subserviant to men. Only the more tradition respect to elders and respect to authority (and only then part of the time since they treat their teacher like another one of them most of the time). Of course that there are very few males in the show does make it harder to show sexism in practise.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2011-11-21 at 17:02.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:49   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai-Lang View Post
It's supposed to open up a discussion on whether Moe or not is declining the quality of anime, and also if it's objectifying to women.
...which you obviously think it is. And you can keep saying it, but until you can explain how exactly "moe" is sexist towards women anything you say will hold very little weight. Now, I will admit that I myself have at times felt frustrated by how women have been portrayed in a lot of anime - as no-personality generic "cute" girls with no will, desires, dreams or reason to exist of their own beyond being the idol girlfriend of the "male viewer self-insertion" male lead - but I don't see how this is a problem inherent in "moe", specifically.

On another note, I will say that my favorite anime is K-On!, probably the most popular recent show that is heavily associated with the "moe" term, and not once have I felt any desire to "jack off" to it, as you so tastefully put it. That is to say, I think you've misunderstood the whole "moe" thing to begin with.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go feel disappointed in myself for having participated in this discussion.
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:01   Link #34
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I think the opening poster really needs to give examples of what moe characters and anime brought him/her to this conclusion. Otherwise its hard for me to tell what he/she i getting at. There's a reason why I provide examples of female characters I don't consider weak/defenseless/etc. when I talk about this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
I have also heard that moe girls come off to otaku as "girls they want to protect because they're cute/little or like little sisters" much more than sexual objects. That is also true, right?
Yes, there can be an element of wanting to look out for your cute junior/little sister/etc. Which is an example of targeting a character to a male psychological need ("playing hero" in a way) and hence can be considered sexist, but to be honest I consider it a positive influence if not taken it to the extent of chauvinism.

In cases where both the male and female leads of a series are young and inexperienced, I end up feeling like I could try and help set them up... Renji and Chihiro in EF: A Tale of Memories and Asaba and Iriya in Iriya no Sora, UFO no Natsu are good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
More likely, the "moe craze" indicates that the industry has found a theme that's popular, and now they're milking it for all that it's worth. In that regard, it's not so unlike other industries. What's unique is that it deals more with feelings (as 0utf0xZer0 identified), rather than the "sex sells" approach.
To be fair there's quite a few moe characters who are designed to be legitimately sexually attractive, but yes, thank you for highlighting this. Emotional centricity is to me a core element of moe anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
These types of discussions about degrading women generally have no winner. Degradation/objectification of women is very real, but those who decry it will never be satisfied. If women are included in shows, the show is frequently criticized for having the women play "stereotypical woman roles" or for going in the opposite extreme. If women aren't included, then the show is criticized for being anti-women for leaving them out entirely. People clamor for strong female characters, but I get the impression that not even the feminists have an idea of what that would look like.
I'm personally inclined towards the judging good female characters by the standard at the end of this article.

Needless to say that the author of that article probably wouldn't have a high opinion of the concept of moe since its pandering to (mostly male) nerds. On the flip side, there's a decent amount of moe anime out there that does have well thought out female characters. So a mixed bag overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I for one, happen to think the best elements for moe is a character who is tragic, yet capable of fending for herself. Tragedy is a beautiful thing indeed.
Yeah, there's an awful lot of moe girls who put up a pretty damn good fight against their circumstances - those girls may get assistance from the male lead, but said lead isn't doing everything for them.
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:08   Link #35
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Objectifying of women shouldn't be much of a discussion here. As this has been going on for a long long long long time. Like the naked magical transformation; and that has been around for over 30 years now. Then add-on the slew of characters with big breasts, long legs, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner
If there is anything more representative of overexposure of moe to me that is the K-ON! franchise. It is quite possibly one of the most soulless show I have ever personally watched. Marketed at first as a cute girls with music show, it became a gigantic pandering monster that only desired to show off how cute its girls were.
Bearing repeating. This is the real reason for the complaints against the "moe-blob". They're story killers. You can make an episode of K-ON featuring Grocery Shopping; and people will still find it enjoyable. This "deep storyline" idea... dead when "moe" is the feature.
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:13   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai-Lang View Post
It seems to me that anime is just degrading to a lower level with this whole new Moe fad. Gone are the days of quality anime like Sailor Moon
I know wikipedia isn't the best of sources about this topic but I can't help quoting this

Quote:
Anime columnist John Oppliger has outlined several popular theories describing how the term would have stemmed from the name of anime heroines, such as Hotaru Tomoe from Sailor Moon
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:49   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Bearing repeating. This is the real reason for the complaints against the "moe-blob". They're story killers. You can make an episode of K-ON featuring Grocery Shopping; and people will still find it enjoyable. This "deep storyline" idea... dead when "moe" is the feature.
Who says you need storyline for entertainment, much less depth? Furthermore, how is your conception of moe a story "killer"? If you took away the moe from K-On, would it suddenly have a story? Did adding the moe appeal "kill" the story?

5 Centimeters per Second is possibly my favorite movie of all time. Part 1 is about a guy who takes a train ride. Part 2 is about a girl who doesn't tell the guy she likes him. Part 3 is a music video. It has about as much "plot" as K-On! does. I defy you to watch it and tell me there is no depth to it, or that a stronger plot would have made it better.

[/devilsadvocate]
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:53   Link #38
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Depends on the type of story. Television is full of all sorts of things. Drama, reality, sports, science fiction, tragedy, sitcom, comedy, etc.... A story like K-On would be like a comedy or a sitcom. The main difference between it and American version is that the anime doesn't have a laugh track or a studio audience.
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:54   Link #39
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I think there should be some distinction when it comes to “moe”, in terms of definition and connotation. Ideas of protectiveness and innocence seem to be core to its definition. But its connotation leans to one of subdued “innocent” sexuality. And that connotation should be put in perspective in regards to culture. Is moe being viewed in the context of an eastern culture or a western one? It seems shallow to generalize a culture’s perception of women by using the standards of another culture. I wouldn’t say that it’s moe causing the shallow portrayal of woman but rather the lack of characterization of (oh no!) characters in anime in general.

A lot of moe hate seems to stem from the lack of creativity and stagnation of the industry. I personally believe that moe has been a huge part of the industry in the past few years and due to its popularity, I think a lot of anime has been churned out with the moe sticker of proof in order to gain attention. What had once been great storytelling with elements of moe has more or less degraded to an industry spitting out the same old same old. Then again they say that 90% of art is shit. But moe itself causing the degeneration of the anime industry? That seems to be a bit trite. I would say the overuse of an idea would be the cause of the dry spell. That is to say that it wouldn’t be moe as much as lack of effort of many parts of the industry in terms of variety and creativity.

I think that saying moe being the cause of the ruination of anime and the objectification of women is a hastily made conclusion. I believe that it goes deeper than that, culturally and contextually.
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:54   Link #40
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Atmosphere and emotion give 5cm per second its soul though. It's a sort of pandering, but in the sense that can captivate its audience through these simple concept.

Simple things can be deep too when you factor in context. It is simplistic on the outside, but there's more to it than just that.

Although, yea 5cm's story and characters aren't necessarily the strong point.
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