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Old 2011-11-29, 10:03   Link #141
Kafriel
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It's a probable one...but I'd hate it anyways.
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No matter how sensible the logic, what Ukitake did was basically fit Ichigo with a leash and collar. It doesn't matter if you let your dog wander and piddle where he wants, it doesn't change the fact that you hold a leash that can be used to choke him anytime.
People have been dropping around the idea that Ichigo could die via control of his badge, but I think he was perfectly fine these 17 months without a single hint of reiatsu. If the badge is a limiter, taking it to the extreme would equal Ichigo having no power at all, but having no power also means not being a hollow target, so you can't say it would kill him in some way.
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He knows they're willing to lie to get what they want from him.
What did they get from Ichigo after giving him the badge? Going to HM was to save Orihime, pick his bone against Grimmjow and save his town. If they somehow observed his vizard training, they showed no sign of it...
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:57   Link #142
Kayin
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Doesn't every person have a collar/leash within a system of law and order? Unless your hax Aizen who kills everyone in the law system to bypass it, every soul reaper in the Soul Society wears an invisible badge that limits what they can do. And when they go to the world of the living, they usually have limiters on their powers as well.

Ichigo has to be a complete ignoramus to realize that still being human doesn't mean a get-out-of-jail-free card with the Soul Society's laws. The badge is a more extreme measure then the usual limits from a system of law, but Ichigo lives in another world that they have no control over other then killing Hollows or making sure it doesn't get destroyed.
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Old 2011-11-29, 23:02   Link #143
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
It's a probable one...but I'd hate it anyways.

People have been dropping around the idea that Ichigo could die via control of his badge, but I think he was perfectly fine these 17 months without a single hint of reiatsu. If the badge is a limiter, taking it to the extreme would equal Ichigo having no power at all, but having no power also means not being a hollow target, so you can't say it would kill him in some way.
I didn't say it would kill him. "choke" was just part of the analogy. They have a way to limit him when he doesn't do what they want so it's still a "leash and collar" effect.

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What did they get from Ichigo after giving him the badge? Going to HM was to save Orihime, pick his bone against Grimmjow and save his town. If they somehow observed his vizard training, they showed no sign of it...
Ichigo saved the entire world. That's what they got from him. Yamamoto had already mentioned that Ichigo was a crucial part of their battle plans against Aizen from the start. So yes, they had always had use for him, but Ichigo was a willing ally anyways.

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Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
Doesn't every person have a collar/leash within a system of law and order? Unless your hax Aizen who kills everyone in the law system to bypass it, every soul reaper in the Soul Society wears an invisible badge that limits what they can do. And when they go to the world of the living, they usually have limiters on their powers as well.
In a law-based system, you agree to follow certain rules or else give up certain rights. Shinigami know they will have their powers limited whenever they go into the real world. Soul Society didn't issue any law for Ichigo to follow. They tricked Ichigo into carrying a device they could use to limit his powers. That's not law. That's just douchebaggery. The honest (and lawful) thing to do would've been to tell Ichigo that if he wanted to continue acting as a shinigami, he had to agree to carry a device that could be used to survey him and limit his power if need be. If he didn't agree to that, fine. No powers or he's on Soul Society's wanted list.
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Old 2011-11-30, 02:01   Link #144
Kafriel
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Ichigo saved the entire world.
I'd say that's just a side effect, SS wanted to beat Aizen in order to save themselves, I doubt they cared much about whether Aizen would give proper soul burials without them around...but that's just me.
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In a law-based system, you agree to follow certain rules or else give up certain rights. Shinigami know they will have their powers limited whenever they go into the real world. Soul Society didn't issue any law for Ichigo to follow. They tricked Ichigo into carrying a device they could use to limit his powers. That's not law. That's just douchebaggery. The honest (and lawful) thing to do would've been to tell Ichigo that if he wanted to continue acting as a shinigami, he had to agree to carry a device that could be used to survey him and limit his power if need be. If he didn't agree to that, fine. No powers or he's on Soul Society's wanted list.
Fair point, that certainly would have been better.
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Old 2011-11-30, 06:33   Link #145
Bonta Kun
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Spoiler for 475 raw:
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Old 2011-11-30, 06:58   Link #146
sayde
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The thread for chapter 475 has been posted here. You can now direct relevant discussion regarding this chapter into its appropriate thread.
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