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Old 2013-08-26, 22:16   Link #1061
Akiyoshi
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Just by mentioning there are more than one method to qualify heroic spirits and summin them as servants open a shit ton of possibilities to summon any character from any series as a servant. Including the Nanoha cast.

Plus, the rules of the grail are far from perfect or absolute, just as the grail itself.

In fanfiction everything is possible.

I thin Fateverse os the only part of the Nasuverse fit for a crossover with the Nanohaverse due to Servants and Masters being among the weaker groups in the verse as it was implied beings fron other TYPE-MOON series are several tiers superiors like vampires whch can take down any servant not named Gilgamesh with ease.

There's no reason to pit characters from one verse in one-sided battles against overpowered characters from another verse. It turns boring and lame pretty quickly.
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Old 2013-08-26, 23:04   Link #1062
Tiresias
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There's no reason to limit story possibilty to Fate Stay Night, let alone making it yet another frakkin' rehash of Heaven's Feel. The nasuverse is not limited to a few days of skirmish on a godforsaken city. Hell, they had their own magical girls. There's plenty plot potential out there.

But noo, it just has to be "hey, let's make X a Servant despite the lack of justification and have them fight for no reason whatsoever!"

How about this. Before you start wanking ungrounded skills and stats to your favorite characters...give me one reason why they should answer the summoning at all. Because otherwise, you're going nowhere.
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Old 2013-08-26, 23:26   Link #1063
Akiyoshi
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Reasons are plenty. As for power levels Nanohaverse characters can't do jack shit against anything stronger than a servant which will make any other crossover even more pointless.

The only chatacters in the Nanohaverse able to fight in the upper Nasuverse tiers are juggernauts like the full powered Sankt Kaiser, Reinforce Eins, Yuri Eberwein, Hardis Vandein and the Huckebein. The rest are simply hopelessly outclassed xDU

It's like the Wolkeritter figjting against Mazoku. The result is so painfully obvious is not even entertaining.

Servants, Masters and human Magi are more suited to offer an even and interesting challenge to The Aces/Wolks/Forwards whatever group is the one you decide to use in the crossover.
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Old 2013-08-26, 23:43   Link #1064
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I don't see any answer to the "why shoud they bother accepting the summon" question.
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Old 2013-08-26, 23:55   Link #1065
Akiyoshi
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Amend for a big failure? A way to accomplishing an unfinished goal? To get a chance at the grail in order to attempt "set right what once went wrong?" you know, just a bit of what is englobed within "Reasons are plenty" xDU

Oh yeah, a bit late Gx Hero but i like your ideas for a Card Captor fic, maybe you could make Vivio somehow the next inheritor of the Cards xD? You know after Sakura passes away she must leave the Sakura cards, the book and the Guardians to a new Master in order to preserve their existence xD
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:04   Link #1066
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Unless Section 6 got really really really really really really really really famous, more famous than legendary military formations of Old Belka...nope, not seeing it.
...speaking of which, you do NOT want to see what I can pull out of an Ancient Belka "Ionioi Hetairoi".

Now I have nothing but a body of regret.

*sigh*

I guess I can be summoned as a Caster in Nanohaverse.
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:07   Link #1067
Akiyoshi
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...speaking of which, you do NOT want to see what I can pull out of an Ancient Belka "Ionioi Hetairoi".

No, there's not only Sisters of Belka in there.

All this talk reminds me of an old fic. One that eventually got me 'ignored by everyone'... *sigh*

I guess I can be summoned as a Caster in Nanohaverse.
Well, if you really want to go that route there's the line of Kaisers, the Sankt Kaiser, the Thunder Emperor, Hegemon, Jeremiah ...all of them the stuff of legends and all of them more likely with tons of deceased loyal followers xDU
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:11   Link #1068
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Alright, I'll bite. This was what I did, a long time ago.

Firstly, it starred this guy:



And this girl:



And I recreated the Holy Grail War using Nanoha rules with a mishmash of Earth and Ancient Belka heroes... and a good heaping of a grim and dark past where there was only war.
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:15   Link #1069
Akiyoshi
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I understand Shirou as S-ranked given his Story Bfreaker Powers but what about Rin? She certainly have magical knowledge but as far as i've seen her in action she seems to be no greater than B+
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:20   Link #1070
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See that outfit? The "Rin" character in [Nanoha/Cente Gravia] wields the Kaleidostick and together with the offensive power of Zelretch sword is what the Bureau decided to rank her as SS+.

Oh and Rin's twin sister... is Hayate.

Yes I went there, implying that the Tome of the Night Sky is a less-cruel form of a kind of magic worm...
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:23   Link #1071
Akiyoshi
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Does the rank of a mage includes it's equippement as well?

I mean, one thing is being powerfull yourself and another is getting a power boost or an increase in your effectiveness due to an outstading equipement. Hayate's rank is sintethic, maybe Rin's SS-rank is something similar due to being dependant on a MacGuffin?
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Old 2013-08-27, 00:53   Link #1072
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Does the rank of a mage includes it's equippement as well?

I mean, one thing is being powerfull yourself and another is getting a power boost or an increase in your effectiveness due to an outstading equipement. Hayate's rank is sintethic, maybe Rin's SS-rank is something similar due to being dependant on a MacGuffin?
Exactly that. It was something the Tech thread divined a long time along, and I stuck it in as one of the metauniversal rules to follow.
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Old 2013-08-27, 01:07   Link #1073
Tiresias
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Amend for a big failure? A way to accomplishing an unfinished goal? To get a chance at the grail in order to attempt "set right what once went wrong?" you know, just a bit of what is englobed within "Reasons are plenty" xDU
Unless you start giving me expanded character background that explains why Post-StrikerS Nanoha characters would have these goals, and which character has which motive, I'm afraid that's not an answer.

Characterization comes first. And the reason for these to be summoned would affect how they would pursue victory, how pragmatic/idealistic they would be, what tactics they would use, how they would react to other Servants, how they would react to fellow Nanohaverse Servants, how they would react to knowing the Grail was a lie, how they would interact with their Masters...

Yes, Masters. What, you didn't think Heaven's Feel is just fought between Servants? No, there are Masters to be involved, and they too are characters with their own goals and personalities, some of which may clash with their Servants. Which reminds me, you will also need reasons why these Masters get their Servants.

Gee, for all this talk about "let's not get into power level debates", people seem pretty determined on focusing on powersets and Noble Phantasms and OMGHayateWillBeOPThisIsAwesome!!! wankfest instead some things that might be just a wee bit more important...like the actual story and characterization. (Since that's the case, I might as well add that no, RF6 will never be an NP. In a few hundred years, Midchildan historians and schoolbooks will still remember they great Emperors of Belka that conquered entire worlds. RF6 willl be lucky to become a footnote.)
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Old 2013-08-27, 01:22   Link #1074
Akiyoshi
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There are things called "modern legends" by your definition Emiya should never been able to become Archer in first place xDU

But even then, i could make an entire background if you wish but i won't do that unless i want to make a fanfic like that myself. I don't even know why is this an issue, this is fanfiction, if we were discussing the elements for a canon cross-over then i'll understand so much stubborness but hell, we hav eunlimited resources to fix those details.

In fact i wasn't even thinking about a full Nanoha x Fate crossover, more like a massive crossover using the Holy Grail war template as a resource to take characters from several continuities as servantas and/or masters. I understand characterization, i understand all you said about the possible relationships Master/Servant, it's one of the main elements of the story.

The thing is, we can get things flexible, not every master MUST be an exclusive Nasuverse character for example.

If we go by your specific roules, someone could summon Kenshin Himura or Hajime Saito as a servant xD
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Old 2013-08-27, 01:42   Link #1075
Lhklan
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@Aki
Nope. EMIYA is a Counter Guardians, somebody who sold his soul to protect the world.

Not to mention that the only other case of "Modern Servant" is Shakespeare, and that was in the Apocrypha Grail War. (Extra and CCC Servants don't count because they came from Moon Cell, not the Throne itself)

Also, you have to work on the balance. Yes, it's fanfiction. But no balance => wank-fest. Which is bad. Very bad.

@Tiresias

Hmm... I can think of a few reasons for a couple of RF6 members to participate. For example:

Hayate would want to save Reinforce, while Fate can wish for a happy life with Precia and ALicia. Teana can wish for her brother back, while Vice can ask for his sister's eyes.

I'm stumped on Nanoha, Subaru, Erio, Caro and the Wolks though.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:41   Link #1076
Keroko
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@Summoning char:
Okay, first off, they have to be Heroic Spirits/Wraith/Counter Guardians to be summoned. Meaning that the character have to be DEAD in the first place.
Doesn't matter, the throne of heroes exists outside of time and space. Nanoha & co. are heroes, so there's an excuse for them to be in the throne.

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Second, a cataclyst. Whoever want to use Nasuverse summoning ritual need a cataclyst, otherwise they would only get someone compatible.
Which, coincidentally, happen to be the Nanoha cast. Because fate/an attempt to balance the war/insert reason here. Problem solved.

The only thing that's a considerable plothole is an actual reason for them to want the grail, really.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:42   Link #1077
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Only Nanoha has done several feats that would qualify her for one... maybe she should be the one to summon them....

Wonder what her Noble Phantasm would be... Befriending?
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Old 2013-08-27, 03:22   Link #1078
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Doesn't matter, the throne of heroes exists outside of time and space. Nanoha & co. are heroes, so there's an excuse for them to be in the throne.
But the one summoned is a copy of the original in the Throne. Not the character while they're still alive. So, still dead people.

Quote:
Which, coincidentally, happen to be the Nanoha cast. Because fate/an attempt to balance the war/insert reason here. Problem solved.

The only thing that's a considerable plothole is an actual reason for them to want the grail, really.
I mean Cataclyst for summoning the Nanoha char. Compatible might be easier, but I'm not quite sure since the only example of that - that I remembered - turn out to have a cataclyst as well.
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Old 2013-08-27, 03:30   Link #1079
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Why do they even want the Grail? They managed to solve all their incidents, get their happy end. And it's more likely that many of them would likely retire and live peaceful lives ever after. It's Nanoverse, not Nasuverse, let alone Urobuverse. Many Servants' backstories are tragic tales of underachievement, fall, betrayal, regret and misery, and whatever could have gone wrong did go wrong.
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Old 2013-08-27, 04:40   Link #1080
MeisterBabylon
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This is why, in the end, transplanting the Holy Grail War, its characters and all their motivations per se would just flop. That's why I didn't do that.

Instead, I used the Seiha Sensou as an inspiration to build a tale of my own. I point you to the side story which features a False Holy Grail War. That is an example of using the rules but not the content.

This is going to be quite a spiel, so bear with me.

In my planned fic [Nanoha/Cente Gravia], it begins on a day almost like any other day. The Yagamis are busy with preparations for a outdoor party on Earth. Nanoha, Keroko and Fate have gone to a Midchilda hospital for Takamachi's last post-rehab review. A boy on a distant planet who was born without magic was living his small life ekking by with a small secret that he discovered.

Then, it happens. A quake rocks Tokyo slightly, but it affects the mages with a sense of foreboding. And Hayate's arm is suddenly marked with a blood red tattoo, as well as summoning her own Servant, Caster.

After another cycle of the Epsilon Arcus (roughly 5,126 years on Earth), the 8th Holy Grail War to decide the next leader of the Ancient Belka empire begins anew.

This was a war of heroes and legends past, where those hopefuls chosen by the nascent Grail call upon the phantasmic familiars called Servants from the Throne of Heroes to clash in sanctified battle. The last one standing shall prove her justice to prevail, claim the Holy Grail, and rule the Imperium of Belka for another 5000 years.

Except, the Imperium of Belka collapsed over 500 years ago.

No one knows how it started, or who initiated the ritual, but it drags many an innocent soul into this fight. The Aces would have been involved because of Hayate, but Bureau instead reassigns Fate and Nanoha off world, to prevent all that power gathering in one operation. The war splinters into various perspectives as each Ace searches for clues that would help them understand the mystery of the Seihai Sensou across the multiverse.

This was the setting in which I began plotting my False Holy Grail War crossover. More details in a while as I dig through old documents...
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