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Old 2011-11-28, 23:32   Link #141
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But that's not Yuuno. It just doesn't FIT.

He's a warrior when he needs to be, but he's ultimately a scholar, not a fighter. If he was the kind of guy who used weapons, he'd already have a weapon, or at least a single shooting-type spell.
I'm pretty sure pre-summon Saito wasn't exactly a battle-hardened fighter either xDU
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Old 2011-11-28, 23:47   Link #142
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Yuuno with the ability to use any weapon. Almost sound like a game breaker. There isn't much Weapon of Mass Destruction in the ZoT world. Or at least not before the end of season 2. Kinda dropped it in the beginning of 3.

He can already do a lot of stuff that weapons there are almost useless to him.
Hey does this mean he can use other's Intelligence Device? what about being able to use RH properly?

Oh my God I'm coming up with a lot of ideas
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Old 2011-11-29, 00:16   Link #143
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I'm pretty sure pre-summon Saito wasn't exactly a battle-hardened fighter either xDU
It's not about skills, it's about temperament.

Saito IS the kind of guy that would pick up a sword and charge someone headlong with it, without any strategy.

Saito IS the kind of guy who accepts a duel from some ponce who think's he's God's gift to the world.

Yuuno is a scholar who avoids unnecessary fights. Faced with a superior opponent, Yuuno's preferred response would be to retreat and find another way to deal with the problem.

For example, when confronted by a Gandalfr with a magic-eating sword that can carve through all of his dragons, Yuuno would retreat, and then attack and subdue Saito when he's asleep.

Which is exactly what the Sword of God should be doing. The Shield is the one who's meant to charge into the thick of the fray, because the Left Hand of God is the meatshield.

Subaru is a meatshield. Yuuno is a support-type, like Caro.

You wouldn't give Caro the Gandalfr powers, you'd give her the Windalfr ones.
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Old 2011-11-29, 00:22   Link #144
Akiyoshi
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Still Yuuno is quite different to Caro, those are few but Yuuno also have his moments of charging into enemies during battles, in fact, most of his fights consist of charging at the enemy(just watch his skirmishes with Vita during A's), it's true that Yuuno is a defensive mage with support skills but he also knows how to go face to face against an opponent if he decides it's necessary, Caro rarely makes such an aggressive approach to the enemies.

To be fair, i didn't know such trivial things like temperament and such are part of the selection criteria of the familiars in the Zeroverse. Still Yuuno isn't completely stranged from direct confrontation so, he can still qualify for Gandalfr powers.
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Old 2011-11-29, 01:40   Link #145
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There're some snippets in the SB thread about Yuuno getting summoned as the familiar and then coming back after some time has passed:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2809
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2814
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2986
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2980
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2824
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=3039
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2855
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2857
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2906
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showt...53#post6471953
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2947
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2974
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showt...50#post6867850

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But that's not Yuuno. It just doesn't FIT.

He's a warrior when he needs to be, but he's ultimately a scholar, not a fighter. If he was the kind of guy who used weapons, he'd already have a weapon, or at least a single shooting-type spell.
He's not a warrior, he's a scholar... but he's also a warrior, so don't get any funny ideas.

He is the Most Interesting Man on Mid.
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Old 2011-11-29, 02:17   Link #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
There're some snippets in the SB thread about Yuuno getting summoned as the familiar and then coming back after some time has passed:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2809
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2814
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2986
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2980
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2824
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=3039
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2855
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2857
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2906
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showt...53#post6471953
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2947
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showp...postcount=2974
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showt...50#post6867850



He's not a warrior, he's a scholar... but he's also a warrior, so don't get any funny ideas.

He is the Most Interesting Man on Mid.
He lost to Guiche... HUH? did I miss a chapter that says "Lost all of his magical powers"?
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Old 2011-11-29, 05:04   Link #147
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On counterspell, let's not forget that Mid magic has barrier breaking spells. That's going to make for fun surprises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Still Yuuno is quite different to Caro, those are few but Yuuno also have his moments of charging into enemies during battles, in fact, most of his fights consist of charging at the enemy(just watch his skirmishes with Vita during A's), it's true that Yuuno is a defensive mage with support skills but he also knows how to go face to face against an opponent if he decides it's necessary, Caro rarely makes such an aggressive approach to the enemies.

To be fair, i didn't know such trivial things like temperament and such are part of the selection criteria of the familiars in the Zeroverse. Still Yuuno isn't completely stranged from direct confrontation so, he can still qualify for Gandalfr powers.
Yuuno's way of fighting is supportive. Sealing movement and blocking enemy attacks. He's not the kind of person to hammer into enemies with weapons, but rather to shield against and hinder them. In a way, this makes him the perfect Gandalfr, as he can not just protect his master from multiple foes, but also seal their movements to allow Louise's attacks to hit home without risk of harming anyone else, while a sword wielding Gandalfr would always be in the line of fire.
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Old 2011-11-29, 07:31   Link #148
WarpObscura
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Originally Posted by ZeroIchiNi View Post
He lost to Guiche... HUH? did I miss a chapter that says "Lost all of his magical powers"?
No, he threw the match because he didn't see the point in fighting.

Quote:
On the one hand there was really no way the noble boy had any hope of beating him as back home he often sparred with Mid-childa's aces. Even being low on the totem pole compared to them the mere fact that he could mostly keep up still put him in the top one or two percent of all Mid-childan combat mages. Some kind of student level mage, even one using an unfamiliar magical system, was really little more than a minor inconvenience at best.

On the other hand... did he even want to win this fight? It wasn't like there was much reason to go through with it. The damage to the boy's reputation over his two-timing had already been done and no duel was going to clear that mess of his own making up any time soon... so Yuuno didn't feel any particular need to prove this fact all over again in what was essentially trial by combat. On top of that he didn't particularly wish to use magic at all if it wasn't necessary - one of the earliest lessons he had learned as an archeologist was not to reveal one's hand too early. Sure that lesson had been about publishing research papers but the theory, he found, held true to all sorts of situations.

Finally he came to a decision.

"Very well then," he stated as he readjusted his glasses once more and took a breath.

Then promptly fell to his hands and knees, his head angled downwards in the most multiculturally common form of pure grovelling that he knew. "I apologise!" he exclaimed, causing murmurs of derision to pass through the watching crowd - and a mixed gasp of shock and anger from what he assumed must have been his 'master'.

"F-familiar!" Yes, that was his 'master' alright. "Wh- Y-you... G-get up! H-how dare you embarass me like this!"

Yuuno found it slightly irritating that the girl who had been ordering him not to show up to the duel earlier was now apparently expecting him to actually fight. Honestly... he'd only showed up to appease the noble boy, had he not then the boy would likely have just found some other way to get his own back for having his two-timing exposed. Now his master wanted him to fight? Well, it was probably rather embarassing to have her familiar - more like a manservant in this case - surrender so quickly and without a fight. Hopefully she'd get over it though.
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Old 2011-11-29, 16:30   Link #149
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
There're some snippets in the SB thread about Yuuno getting summoned as the familiar and then coming back after some time has passed:
Cool.

While nice, that's not how I would have done things, which is good, as it means I could do the same crossover in a sufficiently different fashion.


Quote:
He is the Most Interesting Man on Mid.
That version of the interrogation scene was better than the second.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On counterspell, let's not forget that Mid magic has barrier breaking spells. That's going to make for fun surprises.
That is, if Yuuno knows or has any talent with the Barrier Break spell.

The spell he's preparing in Vita's capture field is a Teleporter High, according to the guide. After he gets that ready, he asks Arf how she's doing on breaking the barrier part of the field to let them out; he tells her that he cannot break it himself. That might mean that he tried and failed already, or that he simply doesn't know the right spell in the first place, or that he does know and is hopeless at it.


Quote:
Yuuno's way of fighting is supportive. Sealing movement and blocking enemy attacks. He's not the kind of person to hammer into enemies with weapons, but rather to shield against and hinder them.
Exactly.

And commanding beasts is a power much better suited to hindering an enemy's movements, as well as facilitating the movements of his own allies.


Quote:
In a way, this makes him the perfect Gandalfr, as he can not just protect his master from multiple foes, but also seal their movements to allow Louise's attacks to hit home without risk of harming anyone else, while a sword wielding Gandalfr would always be in the line of fire.
Yes, but he doesn't NEED the Gandalfr runes to be a supportive defender, and the Gandalfr runes wouldn't help him play that role at all.

If he ever needs to strike someone, he can lash out and crush with his Chain Bind, or smash someone with a Round Shield or Circle Protection barrier.

The Jewel Seed monster that threw itself against Nanoha's basic Protection spell was blasted to pieces by the kickback; years later, a teenage Nanoha says that Yuuno is still better with barrier and shield spells than she is. Yuuno's defenses should therefore pack a lot of kick, if he hits someone with them.

Basically, Yuuno will never voluntarily engage an opponent close enough to use a sword against them, nor will he let an opponent get that close to him. Even if they DID get that close, they'd have to get past his defenses and then penetrate his Barrier Jacket armor.

He doesn't need a sword or Gandalfr powers for self-defense, or for the defense of others. It would be a wasted gift.

Derflinger would likewise be a wasted gift, but one he's likely to never get.

Yuuno would sooner reveal that he's a "ferret" with non-elemental magical powers than he would reveal that his true form is a human being, so it's doubly unlikely that Louise would take him out shopping for a sword.

It's three-times unlikely in that Yuuno would discourage her from such a purchase, as he's not the sword-wielding type.


The most use that Yuuno might get out of the Gandalfr runes is getting himself a bow, so that he can snipe enemies with super-far, super-strong, super-accurate arrows. Maybe he could even figure out a spell to create arrows from magical energy, so that he doesn't run out of ammo, and can therefore fire an endless flurry of shots with super-speed. ("My arrows will blot out the sun!")

But he still wouldn't be using Derflinger.

Also, why would he need to do that? Louise is the one who brings the firepower and long range devastation.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:25   Link #150
Keroko
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Wasted gift? The Gandalfr runes allow the Gandalfr to know how every aspect of a weapon works. For someone like Yuuno, who's job includes finding out how old forgotten stuff used to work, that's like gods gift to archaeologists. Limited to weapons, sure, but Yuuno would be jumping in joy when he learns of it. Then he'd find smart ways to apply it, like, ooh I don't know, figuring out the weaknesses of the enemy weapons? Or learning how they work and apply that into replicating them?

And that's not even getting into the fact that the word "weapon" is rather undefined. Magic can be used as a weapon, no? Bam. Total understanding of magic.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:27   Link #151
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And that's not even getting into the fact that the word "weapon" is rather undefined. Magic can be used as a weapon, no? Bam. Total understanding of magic.
I agree in that would be incredibly awesome but i thinked Saito's expertise appear when he makes physical contact with solid stuff meant as a weapon. I don't think it works on abstract concepts like magic.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:32   Link #152
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Wasted gift? The Gandalfr runes allow the Gandalfr to know how every aspect of a weapon works. For someone like Yuuno, who's job includes finding out how old forgotten stuff used to work, that's like gods gift to archaeologists.
The runes of the Mind of God allows for understanding and control of devices, or possibly only magical devices. That would undoubtably be a superior archaeological tool, since it wouldn't be limited to weapons.


Quote:
And that's not even getting into the fact that the word "weapon" is rather undefined. Magic can be used as a weapon, no? Bam. Total understanding of magic.
Again, that is the power of the Mind of God, not the Left Hand.

The Mind of God can cast Void spells, or make things that do.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:32   Link #153
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'Meant as a weapon' is still pretty darn vague. If I pick up a stick with the intent of killing someone, for me that stick is 'meant as a weapon.' And offensive spells are definitely designed to kill, and they definitely make physical contact considering the magic in question comes from the mage's body.

Edit: Sneaky Sunder ninja is sneaky.
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Old 2011-11-29, 18:10   Link #154
Akiyoshi
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Well, to be more specific, an object made with the intent of being a weapon. The stick can be a weapon but if it wasn't originally crafted with the intent of it being a weapon then the Gandalfr powers don't work on it.

This was explained in the anime when Saito took an ornamental sword and wasn't able to gain expertise on it because it was created to be a decoration, not a weapon, even when it's a perfectly functional sword.
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Old 2011-11-30, 01:27   Link #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
This was explained in the anime when Saito took an ornamental sword and wasn't able to gain expertise on it because it was created to be a decoration, not a weapon, even when it's a perfectly functional sword.
Anime-only. IIRC in books it did affect runes, it just sucked to much and broke. But I don't remember that part very well - so I can be wrong.
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Old 2011-11-30, 01:39   Link #156
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I'd just ask them over in the ZnT section, but those guys are pricks and I'm not talking to them again. Assholes, the lot of them.
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Old 2011-11-30, 01:47   Link #157
Akiyoshi
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I'd just ask them over in the ZnT section, but those guys are pricks and I'm not talking to them again. Assholes, the lot of them.
Try with wikias, usually those are nicer and neutral.
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Old 2011-11-30, 05:14   Link #158
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The ZnT wiki is pretty terrible though.
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Old 2011-11-30, 12:04   Link #159
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And now for a fusion premise...

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Nanoha, the rebuilt cyborg, pilots the Galeon to fight off the Primevals... Fate pilots the J-Ark and hopes to restore her homeworld while Yuuno and Arf are the only two that can, with help from the gems Raising Heart and Bardiche, nullify the powers of the Primevals.
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Old 2011-12-01, 09:08   Link #160
WarpObscura
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Derflinger would likewise be a wasted gift, but one he's likely to never get.

...

But he still wouldn't be using Derflinger.
So...
Spoiler for Unfamiliar:
gets it instead??

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I'd just ask them over in the ZnT section, but those guys are pricks and I'm not talking to them again. Assholes, the lot of them.
Flere's a pretty cool guy; he's been very helpful on SB. I think he'll be glad to help.
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