AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-04-04, 13:27   Link #1
Kayess
Guy From Canada
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 29
Kage Bunshin

I have been thinking lately that perhaps Naruto learning the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu hindered him as a ninja rather than advancing him. Sure it has helped him immensely in the past and allowed him to pass the final exam for the Academy, but it has become a crutch in his fights. Rather than working on adequete fighting styles, all Naruto has done thus far is learn to use the clones in interesting ways. Alot of the time, he believes if he divides himself into alot of clones, he will be able to defeat an opponent. With this excess of clones, he has not really developed a firm fighting style as he wantonly allows his clones to be destroyed all in the name of a single strike (or less at times). Instead of learning how to avoid blows and fight intellegently (although I admit his use of the clones is quite ingenius at times), he is relying on his opponent just to be overwhelmed. This could be another possible reason why it is restricted to a Jounin skill aside from the immense chakra required for it. Genins and possibly even chuunin have not had enough experience yet to release that in alot of cases, the Kage Bunshin is actually a pretty bad technique to use (as suggested by Kakashi on the Great Naruto Bridge when he contemplated using it and as well by the Anbu members commenting on the Hokage vs Orochimaru battle). Even though it may have taken him longer to become an average student and pass, I believe if he had not learned the Kage Bunshin he would have become a more responsible and stronger ninja in the long run.

So, what do you guys (and girls ) think? I am looking for some perspectives on my opinion, so anything but mindless flames such as "Shut up, you're stupid" is welcomed and encouraged
Kayess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 14:10   Link #2
Merco
I like pie
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Nah, If that were the case, then Naruto would have started every fight with Kage Bushin and a tackle maneuver. I've said this recently in the average review post, but, being able to summon a Kage Bushin isn't the same as being able to use it effectively. Kakashi pointed that out the Naruto during the group test, and Naruto hasn't forgotten it yet.

While fighting styles play a part in Naruto, there are two other sections, particularly one that he's especially weak at (Sakura is allegedly good at that one though).

If this was a Bruce Lee flick I'd say you have a good point, but the whole ninja idea is tricks, and that's what Naruto is good at (well tricks, and doing whatever you can to get the job done).
Merco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 14:22   Link #3
Kabuto Maniac
animeichi
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Netherlands
hmmm, I think yor' quite true about this (saying that he didn't learn how to avoid blows and stuff), but maybe that turned out to be good. look at it this way: every time Naruto fought with someone his butt was kicked badly, very badly, and he fought back like an idiot with no skills. until the moment that he gets so fucked up by the oppenent that he is completely worn out and half-dead, and starts thinking stuff like "I can't lose here" and "no, I can't lose to this guy", "I won't run anymore, that's my way of the ninja". then he gets really angry and starts fighting like hell and that's exactly HOW he has won every single fight that he has won until now.
__________________
Kabuto Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 15:09   Link #4
ace firefist
Kerazy.com Editor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: kerazy.com/forum
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to ace firefist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merco
Nah, If that were the case, then Naruto would have started every fight with Kage Bushin and a tackle maneuver. I've said this recently in the average review post, but, being able to summon a Kage Bushin isn't the same as being able to use it effectively. Kakashi pointed that out the Naruto during the group test, and Naruto hasn't forgotten it yet.

While fighting styles play a part in Naruto, there are two other sections, particularly one that he's especially weak at (Sakura is allegedly good at that one though).

If this was a Bruce Lee flick I'd say you have a good point, but the whole ninja idea is tricks, and that's what Naruto is good at (well tricks, and doing whatever you can to get the job done).
he's taijitsu is weak yhats why it looks like it don't work.
__________________
Admin of Kerazy.com, the place to get your Hajime No Ippo fit, and various other mangas.
Help me build the community by joining the forum.
ace firefist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 16:41   Link #5
Muad'Dib
The Burninator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arrakis
Of course, had Naruto not learned Kage Bunshin, he not only would not have passed, he would also have been murdered by Mizuki--in the very first episode no less.

Last edited by Muad'Dib; 2004-04-04 at 16:55.
Muad'Dib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 17:31   Link #6
7hor
Full Metal Physicist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
I know what ya mean Kayess, but I think Naruto will get better with it, and like Merco said, Naruto has always gotten his ass kicked at first, and then comes back and wins. Makes him a likable character that way as well What Naruto needs to do is barrow those weights from Lee :P
7hor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 17:44   Link #7
EbonySeraphim
Phat Poster/Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to EbonySeraphim
I agree whole heartedly with this topic. That is exactly Naruto's problem, his character doesn't really use his brain that much until he is really desperate. As soon as the series shows him winning fights without that state, then you can start to really say he is getting better. Otherwise, everytime he wins like that, it could just be him being more desperate, therefore he gets different amounts of Kyuubi's chakra.

Though, I don't think Kage Bushin is a bad jutsu at all. The series might've commented badly on it, but I believe when used by someone who is already high enough level alone and is also very sneaky like Kakashi, it can be very effective as one or both clones hide, and each work together with the same mind to develop a trap. As far as I know the Kage Bushins are just like the real person except for when they "die" they disappear. That should mean they can do justsu's themselves too - maybe weaker, but still perform them to a level of competency. Also, I'm sure Naruto hasn't learned how to "un-clone" either. If he could so it, he could use a clone to do something sneaky, and un-clone it and use a justsu at full power when needed. I can't really go over all of the possibilities to do because it's exponential. One person can do n tricks - two people can do n ^ 2 tricks. And if you multiply by the number of techniques and combinations each of them can do - you have to worry a lot more about what could happen.
EbonySeraphim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 20:08   Link #8
Dix11
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
I have not read through all the replies but i like this topic.

my opinion is that there is a danger to rely on the kage bunshin too much, but that naruto doesnt do kage bunshin and then just hope the numbers overwhelm his opponent. sometimes it seems like that, but naruto always has a trick up his sleeve, or a trump card so to speak. he combines his bunshin with henge almost all the time and ends up with very tricky attacks, which kakashi told him on the bridge was the whole point of ninjutsu...naruto uses his clones and lets them serve the purpose of distracting his opponent and catching him off guard. once the enemy has seen naruto wrecklessly throw 10 clones at him and let all 10 clones get clobbered, that enemy potentially becomes unprepared for when Naruto uses one of his clones in a more cunning maneuver, like the shadow shuriken or turning into akamaru. the only time we've seen naruto use his kage bunshin against someone else using bunshins was that wierd mud-clone guy in the second part of the chuunin exam....and even then, while it appeared naruto was wrecklessly wasting chakra, he drew out the enemy by allowing his team to find where the real ninjas were hiding. I would like to see him use other tecniques besides henge and kage bunshin and summon, but maybe we're getting spoiled because we know how high his potential is. most other ninjas have precious few techniques, if any, and we only ever see them use the same one over and over (shikamaru, ino, lee...etc) naruto already has a good variety of techniques, kage bunshin just seems to be his favorite...he makes it work for himself
Dix11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 20:11   Link #9
Will
Toebeard the Pirate
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Will Send a message via MSN to Will
Lightbulb

I think kage bunshin is an excellent jutsu for Naruto and I dont think it has hindered him as such; just led him down a path where kage bunshin has become an integral part of his fighting strategy. This might be bad if he wasn't an experienced, cunning prankster with huge amounts of stamina (one of the drawbacks of kage bunshin is how draining it is to maintain). It fits in well with his recklessness in taijutsu as assuming you can afford the chakra to create them in the first place( which Naruto can) kage bunshins are completely expendable. This makes getting hit less of a problem and makes suicide attacks infinitely more viable. Imagine a swarm of kage bunshins, each with the 8 celestial gates open. Might be difficult for Naruto to learn, but what a monster kakashi would be with this tactic...
__________________
You're not a man 'til you've commandoed. Yousha!
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 20:14   Link #10
Dix11
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
thats an interesting thought....kage bunshin clones with the ability to open the gates O.O even if they open the death gate...who cares, they go *poof* anyway
Dix11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-04, 20:16   Link #11
Lexander
www.thefestlanders.com
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
If all Naruto did was Kage Bunshin, then yes I'd agree with you. But he combines it with other jutsus. Also the reason why he uses this technique so often is because it's one of his best, or was his best.
__________________
There is a little known provision in the Forum Rules that explicitly allows a moderator to remove any signature image that they believe to be inappropriate for any reason. I have saved this image into my "WTF directory" just in case I ever wonder if it was only been a bad dream, and have removed it from the forum. Hopefully Lexander will never do this again!
Lexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-05, 00:03   Link #12
Prince of Chronics
One Piece fan
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
he uses that technique in nice and interesting ways... and as someone mentioned already... without it... Naruto would have been done long ago.... I think it's one of the better jutsus in this series... combing the kage bunshin with his irregular fighting style/thinking are a bonus and makes Naruto pretty damn deadly imo...
__________________
Prince of Chronics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-04-05, 20:02   Link #13
-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-
Vandread
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: I LOVE NEW YORK cough* my ass cough*
Age: 28
well the fact dat he virtually suicides most of his bunshins is a direct representation of his characteristic. He is guy who goes for the one shot deal and puts all hes got into one blow.

Besides i think we have enough of the smart dudes in this series and having naruto becomes just another thinker might make this a bit dull...i mean the pivotal point of this series is for a non-genius ninja to surpass the genius ones....
__________________
What is a friend? It is single soul dwelling in two bodies. -Aristotle
I don't just think the glass is half empty, I think somebody stole half my damn drink
I'd rather betray the world then let the world betray me. -Cao Cao
-|(aGe-BuNsHiN- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 05:43   Link #14
Blue*Dragon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: holland
Age: 26
the power of kage bunshin [question]

yeha maby a stupid question but when Naruto used Kagebunshin 100 times for example. Ts he then 100 times stronger or is his power been spillted up.
Becaue then can naruto aqtualy always only use kage bunshin if he because 100 times poerfull
__________________
Blue*Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 05:46   Link #15
Palani
///_^
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mushroom County, Mario World
Age: 27
His power is equally divided between all the clones. The power of the Kage Bunshin lies in numbers not in the strength of the individual clone.

Besides. There's the Naruto Q&A sticky on top of this page for these kinda questions.
Palani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 05:47   Link #16
_Riku_
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 25
His chakara is equally divided between all the clones, so he gets less chakara but more targets, and they say "poof" if somone gives them a punch

but I've been wondering, If gai made kagebunshin, wouldnt that be devistating, I mean his speed
_Riku_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 05:48   Link #17
ShadowClone
Genin Featherweight
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Konoha Boxing Gym (KBG)
Send a message via ICQ to ShadowClone Send a message via Yahoo to ShadowClone
Not a stupid question, but one that had been asked so many times before... use the Search function...
ShadowClone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 06:21   Link #18
Lazy Shikamaru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nowhere
Yeah I mean, it's pointless to split into two guys if you're just gonna attack head on, but since Naruto splits into who knows how many, even if the enemy blocks like one of the punches, there's like more on the way, so like if there is 100 narutos, and the bad guy blocks like 10 of them, he's still gonna get hit with 80% of his strength, whether as if he splits into two he could block one maybe and then he only hits him for half. So yeah, like the first poster said ~ it's all about numbers.
Lazy Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 06:31   Link #19
Dalavita
Jounin
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 87
Well, if the Chakra is dispensed equally amongst the clones and Naruto summoned 5 clones when he had 100 % chakra wouldn't it make 100/5 = 20 %

He will only be left with 20 % of his chakra which is a huge waste but seeing Naruto make 2 millions of kagebunshins over and over and over again I think the explanation is wrong.

And its not that Naruto is the only one to be able to summon that many Kage bunshins. After fighting Zabuza, to scare off the croud, Kakashi also summoned like 200 Kage bunshins even after he was tired from fighting Zabuza.
__________________
Everyone should be judged individually.
Dalavita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-07, 06:38   Link #20
Alfzilla
Was Here
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF, CA
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Alfzilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalavita
Well, if the Chakra is dispensed equally amongst the clones and Naruto summoned 5 clones when he had 100 % chakra wouldn't it make 100/5 = 20 %

He will only be left with 20 % of his chakra which is a huge waste but seeing Naruto make 2 millions of kagebunshins over and over and over again I think the explanation is wrong.

And its not that Naruto is the only one to be able to summon that many Kage bunshins. After fighting Zabuza, to scare off the croud, Kakashi also summoned like 200 Kage bunshins even after he was tired from fighting Zabuza.
I agree that the explanation seems wrong but Kakashi only made 5 or 6 bunshins not 200.
__________________
I never sleep for sleep is the cousin of death.
Alfzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.