AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-08-01, 00:58   Link #481
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Actually Satsuki's plan prevents students with less income going to Takafuji, because if i am not mistaken she also wanted to abolish the scholarships.
edit: yeah, that is somewhat her idea of stopping the discrimination problem. By not letting those students enter in the first place.
I read that totally differently. It seemed to me that she was arguing that instead of forcing the aid students to work off their tuition, there would be a scholarship fund for them - and some of that money would come from the savings in abolishing some of the clubs.
Guardian Enzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 01:25   Link #482
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I read that totally differently. It seemed to me that she was arguing that instead of forcing the aid students to work off their tuition, there would be a scholarship fund for them - and some of that money would come from the savings in abolishing some of the clubs.
I read it like that too. For the game-players, Is this issue explained better in the game? Is it a spoiler to mention it here?
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 01:28   Link #483
technomo12
Wise Otaku Seeker
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I read that totally differently. It seemed to me that she was arguing that instead of forcing the aid students to work off their tuition, there would be a scholarship fund for them - and some of that money would come from the savings in abolishing some of the clubs.
yes its was stated in that manifesto that she wants to abolish the financial aid system and replace it with a scholar ship system since lets be honest its waaaaaaaaay better than doing PHYSICAL labor so that you can study

it will only lower ones self esteem even more and the discrimination will worsen

unlike scholarship system they may bully her but lets face it a Top ranking person even though poor will commend recognition and more possible a better future
__________________
technomo12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 01:34   Link #484
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Actually Satsuki's plan prevents students with less income going to Takafuji, because if i am not mistaken she also wanted to abolish the scholarships.
edit: yeah, that is somewhat her idea of stopping the discrimination problem. By not letting those students enter in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I read that totally differently. It seemed to me that she was arguing that instead of forcing the aid students to work off their tuition, there would be a scholarship fund for them - and some of that money would come from the savings in abolishing some of the clubs.
Well, I'm not sure about either of these things (and, to be clear, I completely forget what happened in the game in this regard, so I'm only going on what the anime is saying).

In Episode 4, Satsuki implies that she's making the budget cuts for a reason, and implores him to read her full manifesto. When Yuuki does read the manifesto, the first thing he discovers is the bit about the scholarship students. So there is clearly a connection between the need to save money, and whatever they intend to do about the scholarship students. If they were to abolish the program, you would think that would save money, which should invalidate the need for all the cutbacks. So, I don't think it would make any sense from what we've seen if her proposal is to use the club savings (?) to eliminate a scholarship program. It does make more sense, in context, if her proposal is to at least replace the scholarship program with something else so that the students will be recognized as full-fledged students, and not be bully targets.

They also previously commented that some of her policies regarding the scholarship students wasn't terribly popular, and given that they seem to be widely disliked, I don't think a policy about "getting rid of them" would provoke that reaction (isn't that what the bullies want?).

So yeah... something isn't clear here.


Edit: Ah!
Quote:
Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
yes its was stated in that manifesto that she wants to abolish the financial aid system and replace it with a scholar ship system since lets be honest its waaaaaaaaay better than doing PHYSICAL labor so that you can study

it will only lower ones self esteem even more and the discrimination will worsen

unlike scholarship system they may bully her but lets face it a Top ranking person even though poor will commend recognition and more possible a better future
Yes, I see. So that means basically both original points are right, but hyl misstated slightly. She is eliminating the financial aid program (support based on financial need) and replacing it with a scholarship program (support based on academic merit regardless of financial status). So it means that some students who aren't up to academic par may be asked to leave, but those who remain will be those with academic merit. And because of that, the students in the scholarship program won't have to work to supplement the amount of the scholarship, thus the program will be more expensive than the existing system. Hence the need for cuts to the clubs.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 01:44   Link #485
technomo12
Wise Otaku Seeker
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, I'm not sure about either of these things (and, to be clear, I completely forget what happened in the game in this regard, so I'm only going on what the anime is saying).

In Episode 4, Satsuki implies that she's making the budget cuts for a reason, and implores him to read her full manifesto. When Yuuki does read the manifesto, the first thing he discovers is the bit about the scholarship students. So there is clearly a connection between the need to save money, and whatever they intend to do about the scholarship students. If they were to abolish the program, you would think that would save money, which should invalidate the need for all the cutbacks. So, I don't think it would make any sense from what we've seen if her proposal is to use the club savings (?) to eliminate a scholarship program. It does make more sense, in context, if her proposal is to at least replace the scholarship program with something else so that the students will be recognized as full-fledged students, and not be bully targets.

They also previously commented that some of her policies regarding the scholarship students wasn't terribly popular, and given that they seem to be widely disliked, I don't think a policy about "getting rid of them" would provoke that reaction (isn't that what the bullies want?).

So yeah... something isn't clear here.


edit
also there is no POOR student who is is lower than rank 50
i know since in my school and collage all top rankees half of them are the lower than the lower class people...


Edit: Ah!
Yes, I see. So that means basically both original points are right, but hyl misstated slightly. She is eliminating the financial aid program (support based on financial need) and replacing it with a scholarship program (support based on academic merit regardless of financial status). So it means that some students who aren't up to academic par may be asked to leave, but those who remain will be those with academic merit. And because of that, the students in the scholarship program won't have to work to supplement the amount of the scholarship, thus the program will be more expensive than the existing system. Hence the need for cuts to the clubs.
well one can have high academic merit if one persist
it may sound harsh but with this them scholarship grantee wont be targeted by them annoying Bullies.................
and in turn have more time learning and getting along with the student body
im not saying financial aid system is bad but lets face it with that system it will be hard to live a life of a student instead your like doing part time job instead of keeping the money, all income goes to school for tuition fees

edit
there is no POOR student who is rank 100 below
since they are poor the poor always strie to be the best no matter what
tried and proven both in anime and reality
and i can vouch since in my school and former college all ther top 50 rankees almsot all of the scholarship grant student i know is in that top 50
__________________
technomo12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 01:56   Link #486
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
im not saying financial aid system is bad but lets face it with that system it will be hard to live a life of a student instead your like doing part time job instead of keeping the money, all income goes to school for tuition fees
Yes, this is a good point. With the current system the way it's implemented now, it would be very hard for the financial aid students to improve their academic standing and fit in with the rest of the school because of their work situation. Having to do this work means they can't participate in clubs or other extra-curricular activities, and the time they spend working means that they're also not able to use that time to study to improve their grades. And given the fact all the money they make goes to the school, they may be forced to take additional odd jobs (like she did in this episode) to help make ends meet. So the Financial Aid system they have now is fundamentally flawed -- it lets people who are otherwise unable go to the school, sure, but it basically turns their school life into a "second-tier" experience. It's natural that they're being ostracised.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 02:22   Link #487
technomo12
Wise Otaku Seeker
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Yes, this is a good point. With the current system the way it's implemented now, it would be very hard for the financial aid students to improve their academic standing and fit in with the rest of the school because of their work situation. Having to do this work means they can't participate in clubs or other extra-curricular activities, and the time they spend working means that they're also not able to use that time to study to improve their grades. And given the fact all the money they make goes to the school, they may be forced to take additional odd jobs (like she did in this episode) to help make ends meet. So the Financial Aid system they have now is fundamentally flawed -- it lets people who are otherwise unable go to the school, sure, but it basically turns their school life into a "second-tier" experience. It's natural that they're being ostracised.
thank you sir you have given a more detailed version of my point

that i was trying to say but cant seem to put it in text >_<
__________________
technomo12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 02:31   Link #488
SRanger
Remember, no moe.
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Illinois, California
Is this show worth picking up? I couldn't even stand the first couple of minutes or so (it's pretty bad in my opinion), but I am ..intrigued, by the classroom teacher. Is there a romance with her at all?
__________________
SRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 02:47   Link #489
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRanger View Post
Is this show worth picking up? I couldn't even stand the first couple of minutes or so (it's pretty bad in my opinion), but I am ..intrigued, by the classroom teacher. Is there a romance with her at all?
Watch it until episode 3. I think you'll get a hint for the teacher there. You can decide after that. If you want spoiler, you can go to KoiChoco Game thread.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 06:22   Link #490
hyl
sneaking like a cat
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Based on Satsuki's manifest, she indeeds want to reform the current "ketoku" with a regular scholarship. If i am not mistaken, any form of scholarships in japan do have to be paid back at some point, while you are exempt from paying fees using the current system by "working for it". I am pretty sure this will deter lots of people with low income going to Takafuji.


Yeah, all of the speculations on the scholarship matter are mostly correct so far. The anime has not mentioned a few details (yet) for any further detailed explanation.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-08-01 at 06:37. Reason: typo
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 06:39   Link #491
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
It was also my understanding that Satsuki was trying to abolish clubs to save money for the scholarship students funding. And that makes me root for her even more. Honestly it's kinda hard to get into this Election business when the POV is the team that I really want to lose. To me they're no less annoying than the Air Sumo club.

I wish Satsuki was the main character...
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 06:54   Link #492
hyl
sneaking like a cat
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It was also my understanding that Satsuki was trying to abolish clubs to save money for the scholarship students funding. And that makes me root for her even more. Honestly it's kinda hard to get into this Election business when the POV is the team that I really want to lose. To me they're no less annoying than the Air Sumo club.

I wish Satsuki was the main character...
Without using any game spoilers and only based on the anime, i think it's too early to say that. While there is a relation between the budget cuts and the scholarship changes, you can't conclude that based on the (partially readible) manifest that she is using the saved money for directly assisting scholarship fundings.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 06:55   Link #493
technomo12
Wise Otaku Seeker
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Based on Satsuki's manifest, she indeeds want to reform the current "ketoku" with a regular scholarship. If i am not mistaken, any form of scholarships in japan do have to be paid back at some point, while you are exempt from paying fees using the current system by "working for it". I am pretty sure this will deter lots of people with low income going to Takafuji.


Yeah, all of the speculations on the scholarship matter are mostly correct so far. The anime has not mentioned a few details (yet) for any further detailed explanation.
really??
you will pay em back at some point???
aint it already covered in income tax cuts?
well im not to sure about scholarship but in my country there is 3 types of scholar ship

Type 1 Valedictorian scholarship
100% free admission and no need to pay tuition fees and other collective fees all you have to pay are the uniform and books

Type 2 Salutatorian scholarship
50% discount on all fees except books and uniform

Type3 Athletical scholarship
Discount and freebies will depend on your athletic results and academic grades

but im soo rooting for shinonome
but still i do hope MC wont just run for SC Pres. just to save his club
i want him together with former SC press and Shinonome to make an EPIC trio team of anti corruption SC >_<
__________________
technomo12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 06:59   Link #494
hyl
sneaking like a cat
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Maybe a fact that not everyone knows, but (upper)high schools are not manditory in japan. So i doubt that there will be many Valedictorian types scholarship available for high schools.

edit: I think that the original game was made before the act in japan was passed that regular high schools were made tuition free for students, but then again i also think Takafuji isn't a regular high school.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-08-01 at 07:13.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 09:14   Link #495
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Still, I think we are suffering from the designated Protagonist syndrome. Let's face it- I think the Food Club idiots (especially those annoying two Monkeys which are shooed out before things get serious) really may have been deliberately designed to be irritating. The real plot really is the personal dramas and the greater Political Drama here.

And Satsuki's budget cuts are ludicrously bold, IMO. She knows that it will cost her votes, and she probably knows that alot of those same idiots of the type bullying Aomi may well vote against her because of her Manifesto's Scholarship Proposal. And I suspect there seems to be quite a fair amount.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 09:38   Link #496
Midonin
Last Engage
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Let's face it- I think the Food Club idiots (especially those annoying two Monkeys which are shooed out before things get serious) really may have been deliberately designed to be irritating.
I think that's just the culture barrier coming into play.

And I like Nozomi. Junior mad scientists are a character type I find engaging. They're smart, just spacey, and she's got a really good naming sense with her inventions. Plus, connections. The current president wouldn't be helping them out of it it wasn't for her.
Midonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 09:43   Link #497
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
I just hope the discrimination towards the scholarship students is given more basis and thought that just "Dirty lower class scum". I mean from what I've seen, if there is a campaigner running for greater equality and benefits to the lower class then aversion to that will probably be backed up by BS philosophies like "benefits create a society of entitlements" and "trickle down economics". It'll be interesting to see what kind of arguments they would put up in this show (assuming it does actually become a point of political contention).
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 10:58   Link #498
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Without using any game spoilers and only based on the anime, i think it's too early to say that. While there is a relation between the budget cuts and the scholarship changes, you can't conclude that based on the (partially readible) manifest that she is using the saved money for directly assisting scholarship fundings.
I think it is rather reasonable at this point to at least assume there is a strong relation between the money saved by the club cutbacks and the scholarship program because of the way the information was presented in Episode 4 ("do we need these cutbacks?" --> "did you read my full manifesto?" --> Scholarship program). That said, of course that isn't the only thing in her election platform, I imagine. However, I think it's fairly clear that it's a significant element (given that it was also foreshadowed previously).
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 11:18   Link #499
hyl
sneaking like a cat
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think it is rather reasonable at this point to at least assume there is a strong relation between the money saved by the club cutbacks and the scholarship program because of the way the information was presented in Episode 4 ("do we need these cutbacks?" --> "did you read my full manifesto?" --> Scholarship program). That said, of course that isn't the only thing in her election platform, I imagine. However, I think it's fairly clear that it's a significant element (given that it was also foreshadowed previously).
We are still missing one piece of information, why is there a need for a reform? This has not been answered yet because the viewer didn't get to see the entire manifest or it wasn't written.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-01, 11:26   Link #500
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
We are still missing one piece of information, why is there a need for a reform? That has not been answered yet because the didn't get to see the entire manifest or it wasn't written.
Well, the manifesto (that we did see) does state that the bullying problem has grown out of hand. Perhaps that isn't the sole reason, but it does seem to be a major facet of it (again, following that logical flow of events in the episode). I don't know if we have to really see everything to understand the point being conveyed, but if there is more, then I imagine it'll be disclosed early in the next episode.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bishoujo, drama, eroge, politics, romance, school life, seinen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.