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Old 2012-08-03, 19:23   Link #541
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The only thing I can see right now is this: The poorer students get picked on because they're always busy working and don't socialize as much as the other students do. The fact that they're seemingly always working might lead some students to think they never do anything else (like, say, keep up good personal hygiene - hence the "You stink" bullying ). So scholarships would free up poorer students from having to work as much (if at all), and hence enable them to socialize normally, thus breaking down the boundaries causing the bullying.
I think it's a lot more basic than this. Right now, the only reason they're able to attend the school is because they're getting hand-outs. It's like people who buy their groceries using food stamps. And because of that, they are treated quite literally like "second-class citizens"; forced to work, not allowed to attend any clubs, and so on. The need to work along with the social isolation reduces the likelihood of their being able to accel in academics. So not only are they poor, but now they're also "dumb". The whole system perpetuates the separation between the haves and the have-nots.

So, with the new program, the students would be full students, with all the privileges therein. No one would even have to know they get a scholarship; they're exactly like everyone else. Their full tuition is paid for. So there is no reason or basis for anyone to be bullied.

Basically: the current system is like making all those affected wear a sign that says "Kick me; I'm poor". Sure, they could go after the people doing the kicking, but the system is what's imposing the signs in the first place. Better to fix the root cause.

(Edit: I made a few minor edits to the wording, but the meaning should be the same.)
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Old 2012-08-03, 19:33   Link #542
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think it's a lot more basic than this. Right now, the only reason they're able to attend the school is because they're getting hand-outs. It's like people who buy their groceries using food stamps. And because of that, they are treated like "the poor caste"; forced to work, not allowed to attend any clubs, and so on. The need to work along with the social isolation reduces the likelihood of their being able to accel in academics. So not only are they poor, but they're also "dumb". The whole system perpetuates the separation between the haves and the have-nots.

So, with the new program, the students would be full students, with all the privileges therein. No one would even have to know they get a scholarship; they're exactly like everyone else. Their full tuition is paid for. So there is no reason or basis for anyone to be bullied.

Basically: the current system is like making all those affected wear a sign that says "Kick me; I'm poor". Sure, they could go after the people doing the kicking, but it's a lot better to eliminate the reason for the sign in the first place.
That pretty much sums it up. Forcing them to demean themselves publicly is effectively giving students the green light to bully the aid students, since it's halfway to bullying in and of itself.
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Old 2012-08-03, 20:33   Link #543
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
This is part of the reason why I (at least initially) didn't make the same connection that Guardian Enzo and Relentlessflame did. It's also why I'm not totally sold on it yet, although it would probably make for more compelling drama and would also probably tie things together a bit better.

It's not clear to me how the introduction of a scholarship program and/or additional funding for poor students would stop the bullying. Like Haak said, I'm inclined to think it would make things worse (especially since students would be bitter over losing their clubs in order to, presumably, have additional funding for the poorest students).

The only thing I can see right now is this: The poorer students get picked on because they're always busy working and don't socialize as much as the other students do. The fact that they're seemingly always working might lead some students to think they never do anything else (like, say, keep up good personal hygiene - hence the "You stink" bullying ). So scholarships would free up poorer students from having to work as much (if at all), and hence enable them to socialize normally, thus breaking down the boundaries causing the bullying.

It makes some sense to me, but it is a bit of a stretch.


I'm hoping that Episode 5 will shed some further light on things.
Is it? From the way the manifesto was worded, calling for a REFORMATION of the existing scholarship program...seemed like the scholarship was the problem rather than the cure.
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Old 2012-08-03, 20:57   Link #544
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Well, anime-speaking, we only see a glimpse of it. We don't even know Shinono's full plan yet, so maybe we shouldn't go into super-long arguments for now since apparently nobody (anime-only watchers) is sure about it (except those who already played the game, I guess).
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Old 2012-08-03, 21:40   Link #545
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Well, anime-speaking, we only see a glimpse of it. We don't even know Shinono's full plan yet, so maybe we shouldn't go into super-long arguments for now since apparently nobody (anime-only watchers) is sure about it (except those who already played the game, I guess).
Well, again, the connection of the facts in this episode is very strong (and, speaking for myself, everything I'm saying is purely from the anime).

Question why the budget cuts are needed --> "read my full manifesto" --> the bullying issue/eliminate old financial aid program

I don't think they're going to come back next episode and be like "oh, they're going to get rid of the financial aid program, but all the money saved by that and the club-cutbacks are going to buying plushy chairs for everyone in the Finance Committee." (Or whatever other unrelated thing...)

The money raised by the club cutbacks are clearly related to what is being done to stop the bullying of the financial aid students. I suppose we don't know every detail of her plan, but I don't see many other options that make sense either in this context.
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Old 2012-08-04, 01:50   Link #546
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Methinks our MC might have an internal conflict soon, about whether or not him fighting to keep these clubs funded at the expense of more useful things such as the financial aid/scholarship stuff is actually a good idea. So far, to him at any rate, this whole thing has really been about himself and his friends. I'm predicting that we're soon going to hit that episode where he actually realizes that what he's doing is actually going to have consequences for everyone else. Great power, great responsibility and all that.
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Old 2012-08-04, 08:32   Link #547
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as for me the only thing to stop bullying is removing the boundary and also let the poor people socialize

and note

when you think you know someone you actually dont know them at all

soo with the abolishment of the financial aid enrollment and replaced with an academic scholarship

it may be bad for poor student but guys look at it on a long term perspective sure now they angry but they can always resubmit for an application of a reinstatement of clubs

but what if a poor student who was for a long time wanted to join a certain club and she is actually soo talented that the club gets more fund since it gets result because of the poor student

meaning there will be less bulllying but there will be still bullying but im sure the RESPONSIBLE senpai and CARING senpais will do sometin about it
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Old 2012-08-04, 10:21   Link #548
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don't know why some of the fanbase started to replace the 'L' in 'election' with 'R' in the title...... romaji translation error perhaps? or really NOT.....
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Old 2012-08-04, 12:54   Link #549
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Spoiler for Dengeki G:
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Old 2012-08-04, 18:39   Link #550
zgmf-x19a
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a translation of the scan would be nice
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Old 2012-08-04, 19:18   Link #551
Khu
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Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
don't know why some of the fanbase started to replace the 'L' in 'election' with 'R' in the title...... romaji translation error perhaps? or really NOT.....
love, erection and chocolate.

I can dig that.
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Old 2012-08-04, 20:12   Link #552
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Originally Posted by zgmf-x19a View Post
a translation of the scan would be nice
They're really only talking about three events that will occur. First the TBS Anime Fest in August, then the Dengeki 20th Anniversary event in October, and the last is a special event for the two sprite/fairys games in early-January (where you need to buy the first anime DVD/BD and the ImaImo game to get a ticket).
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Old 2012-08-05, 06:24   Link #553
thundrakkon
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So with the current debate going on in this thread about what Satsuki's platform is, isn't she suggesting to abolish financial aid and enhance with a scholarship program? In that case, it would be abolishing hand-outs (which causes true social class strife) and implementing a merit based system. Hence, scholarship students are actually deserving to go to the school based on their academic achievements, which in turn, removes ammunition from the wealthy kids to pick on them.

Also, removing programs that are irrelevant is a spending cut platform. There has not been any clear indication what the saved cash will be used for. However, if it truly does end up being used for scholarships, then it is still not a redistribution of wealth because it is a merit base application instead of hand-out to the poor. Scholarships are available for all social class levels. Financial aid is only available for financially distressed individuals.
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Old 2012-08-05, 08:14   Link #554
zgmf-x19a
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
They're really only talking about three events that will occur. First the TBS Anime Fest in August, then the Dengeki 20th Anniversary event in October, and the last is a special event for the two sprite/fairys games in early-January (where you need to buy the first anime DVD/BD and the ImaImo game to get a ticket).
Thanks a lot
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Old 2012-08-07, 13:52   Link #555
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Couple of freebies.
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Old 2012-08-08, 12:11   Link #556
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Originally Posted by Khu View Post
love, erection and chocolate.

I can dig that.
Unashamed to say that's why i started this show; i misread the title translation
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Old 2012-08-09, 06:42   Link #557
Dorsai
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Talking

Started to watch it, like in most VN plot isnt too interesting and whole student council election event is just writed really bad... But YuukixChisato pairing is interested enough for me to watch it... Really its one of strongest childhood friend bond i ever saw in anime there... Some scenes are just quite amazing how good that relationship is showed... If they destroy it i will rage... And till now Satsuki didnt show any sign that she fall in love with Yuuki. I think her role there will be different then part of love triangle... Begining of first episode and opening where she looked from far away observing Yuu and his friends walking are hints of it...

One question for people who played game:

Spoiler:



About victiorious/unlucky childhood friend:

In reallity there are two categories of childhood friend and its important, because reason why they are different is main reason why childhood friend is lucky/unlcky for most anime/manga...

First category are childhood friend who met with MC when they was kids and lived close to them for almost all they life... They went to same school from elementary to high school/college etc... If they split then not more then for 1,2, max 3 years... Second category are childhood friend who met when they was kids, but for some reason move away for 5,10 or more years and come back in begining of manga/anime...

In most cases unlucky childhood friends are from first category. Its because they grow up together and thats why they didnt notice when friend began to change into adult/teenager... MC usually treat girl like part of his family and because they are too close he cant saw that girl isnt child anymore. Its same in reallity, if you split with your friend for few years you are always suprised how he change/grow up, but if you grow up together you always see only his present self and its harder to notice changes... Girls mature faster and thats why they notice faster, but childhood friend in this category usually are too afraid to confess and need long time to even realise they own feelings (harder if they are tsundere). Thats why in this category childhood friends are usually unlucky.

In second category bond between childhood friend is different and because they split up for long time MC faster realise that girl isnt child anymore. They are usually lucky childhood friends in most anime/manga...

In this case its ofc first category and its always amazing to see if they win... Because love created from bond between friends like this is something unusual and really beautiful...
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Old 2012-08-09, 09:47   Link #558
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
If they destroy it i will rage... And till now Satsuki didnt show any sign that she fall in love with Yuuki. I think her role there will be different then part of love triangle... Begining of first episode and opening where she looked from far away observing Yuu and his friends walking are hints of it...
I would have taken it the other way: in my view, Satsuki hasn't shown anything but signs that she's starting to fall in love with Yuuki. Of course, I don't think she's already "in love" with him at this point (at last not to the point where she'd admit it), but notice her reaction whenever she sees him: no matter what negative thing is going on, her face lights up and she becomes bright and playful -- this despite (from what we can see, anyway) being a very serious person most of the time.

Or, to put it another way, she's being awfully friendly to someone she just met recently and is now one of her election rivals (partly thanks to her own prodding). Now how this all ends is, of course, another question and subject to interpretation; I have my own theories just like everyone else. Satsuki obviously isn't the only one with budding feelings for our protagonist.


As for the game question... you should ask this question in the game thread instead.
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Old 2012-08-09, 10:07   Link #559
Triple_R
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Yeah, I'm with RelentlessFlame on Satsuki and her feelings for Yuuki.

Honestly, I don't know how she could make it any more obvious. This isn't even tsundere-esque, it's very clear-cut and cute flirting, imo.

Also keep in mind that they're political rivals. They arguably shouldn't be getting along at all, but they're getting along great, and given the circumstances that really says a lot.

I'm honestly hoping for a staged political debate between them (maybe with another candidate or two), because given their fondness for each other, that could play out pretty interestingly.
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Old 2012-08-09, 10:14   Link #560
Pocari_Sweat
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Until this Isara bully arc came along (which btw has been surprisingly decent), Satsuki was the reason I barely kept on watching this (Normally I would have definitely dropped this by now). Satsuki is so... uh... moe? (I feel bad for using this word. Oh wait I have a moe avatar/sig too, so fine fine I'll drop all my pretention ). The way she flirts is so adorable, not to mention she has a sense of style and class too. Too bad it consisted of max of 5mins per episode and she will most likely not win the harem's choice girl award. Sigh.

Anyways, I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to VN adaptations because usually I don't care about shipping, but I ship when it comes to the VN medium. In fact, I think it's a prerequisite or else people who can't tolerate these VN harem cliches (like me) will drop this pretty fast.
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