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Old 2012-08-18, 14:20   Link #641
Master Assassin
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The manga (focused on Michiru's route, with the subtitle Stray Little Cat), on the other hand, puts Michiru into a Hayate (Nanoha series) cosplay and Chisato in Fate's.

Hmm.

.... Why isn't there a Hazuki-sensei route?
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Old 2012-08-18, 17:13   Link #642
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I finally got around to watching the two most recent episodes of this.

To be honest, I thoroughly enjoyed it!

Guardian Enzo is right - Somebody on the writing staff for this is seriously into politics, and it shows. Yes, it's nothing really complex, but you can tell that the people behind this show have a good idea of how politics works in the real world and have done the best they can with incorporating that into the anime narrative as a whole.

And honestly, the way they handled those votes slowly coming in, with reports from Oojima's Campaign HQ... it's pretty reminiscent of how I've seen this done on actual news stations covering major elections. The anime gets it right on how a 3rd candidate can be held back by a strong 4th candidate - I've seen that exact narrative play out in various federal party leader elections in Canada.

And the political chicanery in this episode was very well-presented, as were the speeches delivered. Truly, the political junkie in me found this to be a pretty thrilling watch.

And the interesting thing now is the practical dilemma facing Oojima - Yes, he got through the preliminaries, but Satsuki is already over 40% and it's going to be extremely hard for a third place challenger to overcome that. Tatsumi is solidly in second, and the sales pitch he made to Oojima in this episode has some real practical weight behind it, as shady as it is. I expect for the "Anybody But Satsuki" voters (and there's going to be a significant number, since she's the candidate of the three remaining ones that has taken the hardest line on student clubs) to be tempted to throw their support behind Tatsumi, and of course those ABS voters are the core of Oojima's support. It's going to be interesting to see how Oojima manages to navigate through this situation.


One other thing that I loved about these two episodes was, of course, the Madoka Magica cosplay. That was great!

There was many things I found funny/fitting about it:

1. Mifuyu has made me think of Hitomi Shizuki from the very first episode. I wonder if Mifuyu may be doing her own NTRing here. Only this time it'll be "Madoka" suffering from it, not "Sayaka".

2. Speaking of "Madoka", I was impressed with how Chisato actually pulled that off pretty well. A tsundere as Madoka was pretty hilarious all the same.

3. The way they introduced it couldn't have been more epic. And I was impressed with the attention to detail on the cosplay costumes.


The plot has really picked up in this show, and I'm very much looking forward to more!
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Old 2012-08-18, 18:37   Link #643
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This is seriously the best anime of the season. I feel like we have actual character development.

The other thing I find kind of funny is that oojima sees some people differently than everyone else. Tatsumi and the manga guy so far. I wonder if that is going to actually be a plot point or just something they sweep under the rug as comic relief.
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Old 2012-08-18, 20:41   Link #644
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After that "wrong script" issue, I hope we see more of Mifuyu x Yuuki. Hell yeah.
Also Yuuki was pretty good on the stage delivering that speech on the spot. Must've been hell of an adrenaline rush.
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Old 2012-08-18, 20:42   Link #645
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And what's with the boy/girl reporter, I wonder?

From a purely practical standpoint, Yuuki has a problem. If his main issue is saving the clubs, all Moheji has to do is say "I'll save the clubs too (and really, what does he care?) and I actually have a chance to win!" If he's a one-issue candidate, Yuuki has no chance as long as he's in third place - Moheji will use the age-old "don't throw away your vote on an independent" argument.

One scenario I could see happening is that Oojima ends up having to throw his support to Shininome to prevent Moheji from winning - even if it means the loss of the clubs. Possibly her being suspicious that he wants a quid pro quo deal, but he says no - I'll support you unconditionally - but I'm going to try and convince you the clubs are worth saving anyway.
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Old 2012-08-18, 21:20   Link #646
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
And what's with the boy/girl reporter, I wonder?
My guess is twins, one guy and one girl. They're both reporters, and share a lot in common since they're twins. That's just my guess though.


Quote:

From a purely practical standpoint, Yuuki has a problem. If his main issue is saving the clubs, all Moheji has to do is say "I'll save the clubs too (and really, what does he care?) and I actually have a chance to win!" If he's a one-issue candidate, Yuuki has no chance as long as he's in third place - Moheji will use the age-old "don't throw away your vote on an independent" argument.

One scenario I could see happening is that Oojima ends up having to throw his support to Shininome to prevent Moheji from winning
Really? After all this effort to try to save the Food Club, Oojima would go to his friends and tell them he's going to throw his support behind the candidate with the hardest line on school clubs?

Moheji is a shady guy, but the Food Club didn't enter this to stop him, they entered it to stop Satsuki.

Unless Satsuki changes her policy on the clubs, I have a hard time seeing Oojima throwing his support behind her. Keep in mind that he's not in this for himself or his own political ideals, he's in this for the food club. And the support they've given him has been massive, and it's not the sort of thing that should be easily cast aside, imo.

I also find it interesting that the whole scholarship/bullying bit didn't come up at all in either of the two latest episodes. This in spite of the fact that Isara was right there in both of these latest two episodes, heartily supporting Oojima's campaign.

Now it's certainly possible that the scholarship/bullying thing could come up again, but it not coming up at all (even in speeches, or in Isara's dialogue) suggests to me that maybe we made more of it than what's really there.
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Old 2012-08-18, 21:47   Link #647
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I don't think you're giving Oojima enough credit. Faced with a larger issue of a decent and principled candidate vs. a charlatan, I don't think he'd choose the clubs over the right thing to do. Also, he'll surely come to see the right in Shinonome's position on the financial aid students.

My guess is that, as the process goes along, Yuuki will find a way to convince Shinonome that some of the clubs are worth saving, and a middle ground will be found. Of course he could end up being a serious threat to win the election himself, though it's hard to see that path given what we know now.
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Old 2012-08-18, 22:13   Link #648
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I don't think you're giving Oojima enough credit. Faced with a larger issue of a decent and principled candidate vs. a charlatan, I don't think he'd choose the clubs over the right thing to do. Also, he'll surely come to see the right in Shinonome's position on the financial aid students.

My guess is that, as the process goes along, Yuuki will find a way to convince Shinonome that some of the clubs are worth saving, and a middle ground will be found. Of course he could end up being a serious threat to win the election himself, though it's hard to see that path given what we know now.
Don't forget that he did reach a stage of internal conflict of desires and motives after reading Shinonome's statement and running platform. He had been completely oblivious and driven on a rather blind understanding of "obvious" facts (which is likely a jab at how most people take politics at face value of what they are told, not what they sit down to actually read and find out for themselves). He's still running on the same platform, since changing so abruptly would be political suicide, but he now knows that Shinonome is not just out to destroy the clubs for the lulz. She's doing it for arguably altruistic reasons and there is sound logic behind her plans (and now there's a bit of constant reminder for Oojima, with his new and rather peculiarly chosen "helper").

If he's played into a corner by Moheji on the grounds of "Hey, I too will support the clubs!" (and this is not something I would not expect, he's already throwing up fake candidates that serve to weaken Oojima base and starting strength by splitting the independent vote and, effectively, giving himself more time to cater win over those who voted for the fake), Oojima really would be left without a platform and his best bet, rather than allow Moheji onto the throne, would be to throw his support and followers under Shinonome but with the added bonus of either completely or, at least partially, saving the clubs in some form.

On the side, looking back, I wonder how much of Oojima and Mifuyu's theater isn't a masquerade of emotion. Its interesting how their character interaction seems to always be accompanied by either a story narrative or theatrical display. I don't remember them, when interacting directly, ever not having either in some form. All of the girls have some underlying theme to their interactions with Oojima, but Mifuyu's sticks out as being fairly distinct and unrelated to anything else in the story (and Chisato is still a bit vague to me).
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Old 2012-08-18, 22:24   Link #649
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I don't think you're giving Oojima enough credit.
Quite the contrary. I'm giving him enough credit to think that he isn't going to completely turn against his friends and his club, the very people who worked very hard to make it possible for him to get this far. These people have gone to great lengths to try to save their club, and Oojima ought to respect that. So any arrangement that Oojima enters into with Satsuki should come with the clear assurance of the Food Club being saved, imo.


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Faced with a larger issue of a decent and principled candidate vs. a charlatan, I don't think he'd choose the clubs over the right thing to do.
I don't think Oojima will back Moheji either. He might just end up losing fair and square to Satsuki, but a debate between Oojima and Satsuki could also change Satsuki's mind.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:10   Link #650
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Should the tides turn and it looks like Satsuki won't win, I should think that it would be her that would approach Yuuki to try to gain his support. In that scenario, I should think that being able to negotiate a few changes to her club funding plan would have to be part of the negotiation (because she knows that's the main issue he stands for). Of course, the alternative would be for her to just change her plan without him, and take the wind out of his sails, but this only works if she figures his support is more about the issue than it is about any charisma he may have. (In other words, if people aren't loyal to Yuuki, but loyal to the issue he represents, she just has to change her stance on that one issue.)

In the end, Yuuki throwing his support behind Satsuki would mean nothing if she doesn't change her stance on his key issue. It would just be seen as a betrayal, and people would support the other guy.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:29   Link #651
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That applies if you think the issue of the clubs is a more important one than the issue of, well... every other issue, plus a candidate's character. Political realities aside, I think it would be pretty crass of Yuuki to support Moheji based on the clubs issue alone.

Of course, all that does indeed presume that Yuuki can't win the election himself, which isn't a foregone conclusion. But for any outsider candidate fighting two established political parties with more organization and money, the odds are stacked incredibly against them (unless they're in Maine). There's also the matter that Mouri's assistance is a mixed blessing - given how massively (and I suspect unjustly) unpopular he is, if word got out who the Svengali behind the Oojima campaign was, Yuuki would be ruined.

Lastly, there's this: assuming Yuuki or Satsuki is an either/or proposition, which candidate is more deserving? Who's worked harder to get where they are, and shown more commitment to the job? And whose platform is a comprehensive one that touches on all aspects of student government, and whose is a one-issue campaign driven by (admittedly understandable) self-interest? It would send sort of an odd message if Yuuki were to end up as the candidate of decency, with Satsuki bowing out.

Bottom line: unlike Moheji, who seems like a shady character, both Satsuki and Yuuki are good people. They seem to genuinely like (and maybe more) each other. I think they can come to understand the other's position on the one issue that divides them, and work together if it means defeating Moheji. And one way or the other that's exactly what I expect to happen.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:44   Link #652
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On the topic of loyalty, if Oojima can build a base of followers that are loyal to him and not just the basics of the platform, any of the other candidates simply slapping on an extra clause of "I too pledge to support the clubs!" can possibly backfire as much as help (said party) because they may end up causing a vote split rather than a divergent flow from one party to the other (perhaps I'm being a bit overly naive about this though). In this way, if Oojima and Shinonome are to work together, one of them (preferably Oojima for many of the reasons GE stated) would have to bow out (of course with the guarantee that the clubs would be supported in some form, as to avoid the case of perceived betrayal) to avoid splitting the vote needlessly.

I can foresee a scenario where Moheji directly attacks Oojima either through undermining the platform or directly trying to destroy the candidate to attempt to take the voters of "platform" away, forcing Oojima to bargain with Shinonome to a middle ground where the club-based platform will be diluted enough between both candidates as to bring the question less on the self-interest basis of "Will my club survive?" and more to "To whom can I entrust the future of my club?" bringing character rather platform to the center stage. Unfortunately, I feel like Shinonome has a rather damaged public image at the moment while Moheji has, more or less, bought out a favorable or at least less threatening public persona. If they run with it this way, Oojima would, by having been and, likely continuing to be, the "regular guy fighting the titans", be the remedying factor for Shinonomes image with the independent and club-centric voters.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:49   Link #653
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Well, I don't know how damaged her image is - she defeated Moheji by double-digits in the first round.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:56   Link #654
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Well, I don't know how damaged her image is - she defeated Moheji by double-digits in the first round.
Maybe I overstated, I think more that her image is fragile and easily attackable? But maybe I'm over thinking things, she does have a pretty substantial margin and, I suppose, the number of threatened clubs is probably nowhere near a major force. (Though, if that were the case, how could she possibly ever lose?)

I don't remember if there was a final tally at the end, did I miss the final vote count?
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Old 2012-08-19, 00:19   Link #655
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Maybe I overstated, I think more that her image is fragile and easily attackable? But maybe I'm over thinking things, she does have a pretty substantial margin and, I suppose, the number of threatened clubs is probably nowhere near a major force. (Though, if that were the case, how could she possibly ever lose?)

I don't remember if there was a final tally at the end, did I miss the final vote count?
I don't remember anything after 42-28%, but assuming the main difference was that the seniors were more likely to vote for the independents, their two-party vote should have split evenly enough not to change the gap that much either way.
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Old 2012-08-19, 05:39   Link #656
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That applies if you think the issue of the clubs is a more important one than the issue of, well... every other issue, plus a candidate's character. Political realities aside, I think it would be pretty crass of Yuuki to support Moheji based on the clubs issue alone.
It's not so much what we think, really. It's what the narrative puts forward.

Satsuki's financial aid/scholarship plan is probably a plot-point of some importance, but it clearly pales in comparison to the focus the narrative puts on the overall push to save the Food Club.

I mean, that's the viewer's main frame of reference here - The political campaign to save the Food Club. I think it's pretty clear that, rightly or wrongly, the narrative expects the viewer to share in that primary desire to save the Food Club.

If the narrative was to change gears, if it was going to start being primarily about Satsuki's financial aid/scholarship plan, then now would have been the time to make that gear shift, imo. Coming right off the heels of Isara getting bullied and Oojima exploring Satsuki's manifesto.

But the narrative didn't do that. It didn't even have Satsuki specifically bring up the financial aid plan in her speech.

In the end, I think that new policies designed to help people in Isara's position will be brought forward (either by a President Shinonome or a President Oojima), to properly tie up the financial aid plan subplot. But really, that's all it now appears to be to me - a Subplot. The main plot is clearly about saving the Food Club, imo.


Now, I definitely don't think that Oojima will back Moheji. But Oojima could conceivably end up dropping out without supporting anybody, "freeing up his voters" so to speak. This actually happens in real life politics more than one might think. Many 3rd place candidates don't choose to play Kingmaker. If this happens, Satsuki probably defeats Moheji anyway.

I also wouldn't be shocked if Oojima actually wins it all. But if that happens, I think it'll be due to a political scandal breaking - One that severely hurts either Moheji or Satsuki. That's the only believable way I can see for Oojima winning it all right now.
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Old 2012-08-19, 07:04   Link #657
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Well now that Oojima has essentially cast himself as the Boris Johnson of Japanese school politics, I think the main thing he has to worry about is transitioning himself to a serious candidate to the public without loosing his only two bases: The "shits and giggles" base and the "He's too dumb to be corrupt" base.

As for which candidate he'd throw his towel to if it really came to it, I think it's actually fairly easy for the story to make him support Shinonome if they wanted to go down that route (though I agree that they don't have to).

She's the only other likeable candidate for starters. And if what we suspect is true, her policy is something Oojima would be perfectly willing to support for the sake of sacrificing the Food club, since he's obviously going to find out about Isara's problem eventually. And I bet it's something the rest of the Food club is willing to support too, especially if they all start getting along with Isara and find out she's being bullied.

I don't think the narrative has been on saving the Food club (although that may just be because I really really hate them all). On the contrary I think you only have to look at the scene where Shinonome deals with the Air Sumo club to get an indication of what the story actually thinks useless clubs. I personally don't think it's impossible for the story to end with the Food club actually being disbanded. The elephant in the room they still haven't addressed is the fact that they could still just meet up anywhere and that they don't have to be club to survive.

But there's numerous ways for Oojima to support Shinonome without jeopardizing the Food club also. It's already been mentioned that he can try and reach a compromise on the funding, but I think another route they could follow is that the Food club inadvertently proves its productivity throughout the election and thus guarantees it's survival.
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Old 2012-08-19, 07:50   Link #658
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That applies if you think the issue of the clubs is a more important one than the issue of, well... every other issue, plus a candidate's character. Political realities aside, I think it would be pretty crass of Yuuki to support Moheji based on the clubs issue alone.
It would be pretty crass of him to get where he is on the backs of those who wanted to protect the clubs only to abandon them as soon as he got the limelight.

If Satsuki doesn't change her stance, the most he can decently do is bow out and stay neutral.
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Old 2012-08-19, 08:16   Link #659
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I don't think the narrative has been on saving the Food club (although that may just be because I really really hate them all).
I have to disagree.

Oojima's whole campaign is about saving the Food Club. Even in his speech, he brings up absolutely nothing other than saving the clubs slated to be axed by Satsuki. That's the entire reason he entered the election, and his focus still remains almost strictly on the Food Club. And the Food Club has put a lot of time and effort into trying to save their club by strenuously supporting Oojima's campaign.

You really think that the narrative is going to make it seem like all of that time and effort was entirely in vain and for no good reason whatsoever?

I think it would be an absolutely horrible ending for all of that effort to be essentially wasted, and for the Food Club to be disbanded. After all, if Oojima wasn't in this election at all, it seems pretty clear to me that Shinonome would win anyway. So if this all ends with a President Shinonome and a disbanded Food Club then this anime's entire plot will have been a total exercise in sheer vanity and pointlessness.


Look, we're six episodes into this now, and at least 4 of them have been focused squarely on the election campaign. If saving the Food Club wasn't going to be that important, then the anime would have already shifted gears by now, or at least done a better job of foreshadowing such an eventual gear shift (such as showing Satsuki talking specifically about her financial aid for students policy in her speech).

You bring up the Air Sumo club scene, but that was just a short one minute or so scene (a mostly comedic one at that), whereas serious efforts to save the Food Club has been dominating episode after episode after episode of this show.


Quote:
The elephant in the room they still haven't addressed is the fact that they could still just meet up anywhere and that they don't have to be club to survive.
How often is this "elephant in the room" brought up in other anime shows about school clubs facing disbandment? When an anime narrative focuses as much on saving/starting up/preserving a club as this one does on saving the Food Club, the Club almost invariably gets saved/started up/preserved. Characters never really bother to even consider "You know, we could just meet and do all of this on our own time".

I get your point, but within the world of anime, your point doesn't tend to apply.
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Old 2012-08-19, 08:33   Link #660
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I have to disagree.

Oojima's whole campaign is about saving the Food Club. Even in his speech, he brings up absolutely nothing other than saving the clubs slated to be axed by Satsuki. That's the entire reason he entered the election, and his focus still remains almost strictly on the Food Club. And the Food Club has put a lot of time and effort into trying to save their club by strenuously supporting Oojima's campaign.

You really think that the narrative is going to make it seem like all of that time and effort was entirely in vain and for no good reason whatsoever?

I think it would be an absolutely horrible ending for all of that effort to be essentially wasted, and for the Food Club to be disbanded. After all, if Oojima wasn't in this election at all, it seems pretty clear to me that Shinonome would win anyway. So if this all ends with a President Shinonome and a disbanded Food Club then this anime's entire plot will have been a total exercise in sheer vanity and pointlessness.
I could take them trying and failing.

I draw the line at them trying and failing because they were betrayed by Oojima. Even if it's because he found a worthier cause.


Quote:

How often is this "elephant in the room" brought up in other anime shows about school clubs facing disbandment? When an anime narrative focuses as much on saving/starting up/preserving a club as this one does on saving the Food Club, the Club almost invariably gets saved/started up/preserved. Characters never really bother to even consider "You know, we could just meet and do all of this on our own time".

I get your point, but within the world of anime, your point doesn't tend to apply.
They could probably do fine without funding, but they need the club room. It's "their" space, in a way a table at the cafeteria couldn't be.
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