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Old 2012-09-08, 08:37   Link #1061
Haak
F**k my life...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, they didn't exactly have a lot of time to talk about that at that point. For better or worse, this episode was trying to forge ahead on many, many different plot threads at once (perhaps too many). As soon as that statement was made, they cut to something else without necessarily resolving the scene, so we don't even know what else was discussed at that time. Further, the fact they didn't necessarily discuss it right away isn't necessarily "acting completing outside of any sort of logic" either; they could easily have decided to think about it and discuss it more later, but again we just don't see how the conversation went. They may also assume that Mifuyu and Yuuki will consider that when drafting the policy statement.

So basically, you can't come to the conclusion that something is illogical just because it isn't shown (and because it's the first thing you'd consider if it were you). There are a lot of conversations that aren't shown (the outcome is assumed) or are severely abbreviated due to time-constraints. That may be unfortunate, but if your "being able to feel for characters" depends on seeing every logical conversation, I think that's asking for the impossible in such a short show. You have to be able to connect a few dots on your own.
That's assuming that there are dots to begin. But all I'm seeing is one dot and I don't even know if the other dot is there to make the connection. I just have to assume and hope for the best. And I'd rather not since for me that would be bordering on Fanwanking.

Indeed there would be a lot of conversations that aren't shown, but that's due to Conservation of Detail. And I don't think the way Oojima's new found manifesto interacts with Satsuki's is insignificant enough to be left out, even if political philosophies aren't the general focus. On the contrary, I think it's important enough to be given focus straight away.

And even if I did assume they had the conversation, the problem is essentially the same as being informed about something rather than being shown. If it's important, it should be shown.

But I suppose it depends on how they handle it in the next scenes they discuss it. If they start by mentioning they discussed it before then that'll be marginally better but if they start by acting like they didn't consider the issue before then I'll be pretty annoyed.

Fair enough, both you and Triple-R point out the show is trying to balance an awful lot but that doesn't really excuse the problem. It just explains it.

Now all that said, I'd like to remind everyone that this little issue is simply a minor issue and a mere example of bigger issue I feel of the show so please don't make me blow it all out of proportion and get the idea that I care too much about this.
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Old 2012-09-08, 08:49   Link #1062
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Ok, since Haak already said it, let’s leave the political detail at that (for now) .

On another topic, am I hallucinating, or did I just saw Prof. Emmet Brown’s DeLorean Time Machine near the end of this episode ? They said it was Recycling Club’s car. Seriously? I’m sure that the car was glowing like it’s supposed to be seconds after traveling through time. Marty McFly (or his child) could be in it!
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Old 2012-09-08, 08:58   Link #1063
Snuffle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
On another topic, am I hallucinating, or did I just saw Prof. Emmet Brownís DeLorean Time Machine near the end of this episode ? They said it was Recycling Clubís car. Seriously? Iím sure that the car was glowing like itís supposed to be seconds after traveling through time. Marty McFly (or his child) could be in it!
lol I thought the same thing when I saw that! I couldn't help myself from saying while I was watching it "wth back to the future!?" Looks like the car got upgraded to have the function of being able to warp into different dimensions.
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Old 2012-09-08, 09:00   Link #1064
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
On another topic, am I hallucinating, or did I just saw Prof. Emmet Brownís DeLorean Time Machine near the end of this episode ? They said it was Recycling Clubís car. Seriously? Iím sure that the car was glowing like itís supposed to be seconds after traveling through time. Marty McFly (or his child) could be in it!
Yeah I also thought that was a Back to the Future reference. Remember that the Time machine car actually runs on trash, so that's probably why it's the Recycling club's car.
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Old 2012-09-08, 09:08   Link #1065
Midonin
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Originally Posted by SoFarGone View Post
These VN Eroge adaptations never picks the girl I want to win. They too perfect for the MC. MC wants girl with flaws.
Every girl in these kinds of games have flaws, that's their charm point. And I can understand why - perfection can be boring, but imperfection makes things interesting.
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Old 2012-09-08, 09:18   Link #1066
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
lol I thought the same thing when I saw that! I couldn't help myself from saying while I was watching it "wth back to the future!?" Looks like the car got upgraded to have the function of being able to warp into different dimensions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yeah I also thought that was a Back to the Future reference. Remember that the Time machine car actually runs on trash, so that's probably why it's the Recycling club's car.
LOL yeah. Who knows? Maybe this time, Prof. Brown wants to travel through different anime universes.

Prof. Brown: ďOk boys, we're done observing beautiful anime girls. Next stop: DBZ universe! I wanna get a sample of that Gokuís blood. It might be able to cure cancer!Ē

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Old 2012-09-08, 09:20   Link #1067
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Ok, since Haak already said it, letís leave the political detail at that (for now) .

On another topic, am I hallucinating, or did I just saw Prof. Emmet Brownís DeLorean Time Machine near the end of this episode ? They said it was Recycling Clubís car. Seriously? Iím sure that the car was glowing like itís supposed to be seconds after traveling through time. Marty McFly (or his child) could be in it!
Marty McFly had a love-child with Haruhi Suzumiya - The results was the guy who runs the Recycling Club in this anime.

The guy who runs the Recycling Club is actually from the future, and was sent back in time to ensure that Oojima ends up with the right girl.


Anyway, yeah, the nod to Back to the Future was really cool.
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Old 2012-09-08, 12:34   Link #1068
BladeEntity
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Just watched the episode, the little bits of jealousy shown at the start for me when Yuuki meets Ousawa, for me seemed pretty normal, that would have been probably the norm of almost every childhood friend character who has feelings for the MC, some light teasing and being a little upset about the exchange.

Her stopping Yuuki from doing anything to the girls bullying Isara again made sense to me especially in the present of other students it was a logical choice, and TBF I don't think she feels that much malice towards Isara at that point to want to see her hurt.

The scene that every seems to annoy everyone surprisingly did not annoy me or make me dislike Chisato at all. While it came of as a little too desperate and needy, I can understand where she was coming from I saw that she was not trying to get him to look at her as a lover as has resigned herself to the fact that she has been friendzoned. Reason being, she had the outburst in response to what Yuuki had said when he had friendzoned her, he promised to always be by her side even though he did not love her romantically. IMO she has "given up" on Yuuki, that's why she feels threaten when she feels like she is losing her best friend too, due to the events she witnesses during the day, things like having Yuuki having secrets with Satsuki or him him trying to change his manifesto which made her feel like his motivations were not where Chisato told they should be leading to her feeling like they were drifting apart . Which is why when she has her outburst, she not only talks about Isara but the repoter as well, also we have her being emotionally shaken by her dream, and also she saw a pair of kids who clearly reminded her of both her relationship to Yuuki and Daiki.. If not the outburst would have involved some notion of romantic feelings but it didn't have that. She basically lost the love of her life, and now she feels like she is going to lose her best friend as well.

IMO I think sometimes since the childhood friend genre is so commonly used he just stereotype them in this situation Chisato is not just his childhood friend but aslo his best friend.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:09   Link #1069
Tenchi Ryu
True Harem End or BUST
 
 
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Yea, there's a reason why people say the old line "I don't want to mess up our friendship". It ain't just a line to reject someone, but its the truth. Not only can you deny a romantic relationship with that person, but if you actually DO value that friendship, it can put a strain on it and possibly mess that up too. Chisato is learning the hard way.
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Old 2012-09-09, 03:27   Link #1070
~Yami~
a random Indonesian otaku
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
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okay! I'm catching up with this anime!

let's see....
I like this school system... it's little more complicated with a real comparison with a government
that's making everything more interesting... about how independent candidate want to try their chances to compete with three-ruling department

for girls, I think only Chisato and Satsuki got their develoment... with few episodes left, I don't think Isara or Mifuyu will get a further development in their own arc
actually I don't really care about other girls since I'm a 'childhood friend' supporter
but I watch this anime because I heard some issue said that this anime is doing a very good visual novel adaptation (I'm expecting another Clannad anime)
well, I really hope they will show us each arc with more complete way... but let only one conclusion in the end (not multiple ending like Yosuga no Sora did)

commenting about current episode, Yuuki is a jerk for abandoning Chisato's feeling... that's not a good way to avoid her even if you don't like her...
and a car crash is truly worth for him.... (although in next episode preview, he seems okay)
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Old 2012-09-09, 04:16   Link #1071
thundrakkon
Fly Away into the Night
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
commenting about current episode, Yuuki is a jerk for abandoning Chisato's feeling... that's not a good way to avoid her even if you don't like her...
and a car crash is truly worth for him.... (although in next episode preview, he seems okay)
Woah there. Yuuki cannot be blame for Chisato's angst. He flat out rejected her twice already, yet she is still clingy, jealous, and acts like she owns him. They are friends, not lovers. Also, he is not avoiding her at all. He has supported her more than anyone else has. You cannot force love on someone and expect it to be reciprocated.
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Old 2012-09-09, 04:29   Link #1072
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Woah there. Yuuki cannot be blame for Chisato's angst. He flat out rejected her twice already, yet she is still clingy, jealous, and acts like she owns him. They are friends, not lovers. Also, he is not avoiding her at all. He has supported her more than anyone else has. You cannot force love on someone and expect it to be reciprocated.
Yuuki and Chisato have their own faults.

Yuuki had rejected Chisato but said something that made it more confusing...

Chisato... yeah, she could be blame... but you can't stop people from loving you... especially if that persons is your childhood friend, your best friend, your club president, your neighbor, and your alarm clock that prevents you from getting late at school.
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Old 2012-09-09, 06:53   Link #1073
BladeEntity
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Woah there. Yuuki cannot be blame for Chisato's angst. He flat out rejected her twice already, yet she is still clingy, jealous, and acts like she owns him. They are friends, not lovers. Also, he is not avoiding her at all. He has supported her more than anyone else has. You cannot force love on someone and expect it to be reciprocated.
To be fair She has also always been supporting him, friendship is a two way relationship. Through the conversation between, her being clingy was not in wanting to be in a relationship with him IMO she was holding on to his promise that he would always be her best friend, which is what he said when he rejected her. Considering the events of the day that showed distancing between them, like Yuuki keeping secrets from Chisato about Satsuki or clash of motivation of running in the election from saving the club and solving the bullying issue, these things probably made her question their friendship. coupled with the scene of the kids playing and her dream in the morning it is understandable especially after losing love she only has her friendship left and she probably also doesn't want to loss that.
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Old 2012-09-09, 06:55   Link #1074
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
To be fair She has also always been supporting him, friendship is a two way relationship. Through the conversation between, her being clingy was not in wanting to be in a relationship with him IMO she was holding on to his promise that he would always be her best friend, which is what he said when he rejected her. Considering the events of the day that showed distancing between them, like Yuuki keeping secrets from Chisato about Satsuki or clash of motivation of running in the election from saving the club and solving the bullying issue, these things probably made her question their friendship. coupled with the scene of the kids playing and her dream in the morning it is understandable especially after losing love she only has her friendship left and she probably also doesn't want to loss that.
True, true...!!!! If you're in her shoes.. You'll understand~~~

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Old 2012-09-09, 08:44   Link #1075
Arya
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
To be fair She has also always been supporting him, friendship is a two way relationship. Through the conversation between, her being clingy was not in wanting to be in a relationship with him IMO she was holding on to his promise that he would always be her best friend, which is what he said when he rejected her. Considering the events of the day that showed distancing between them, like Yuuki keeping secrets from Chisato about Satsuki or clash of motivation of running in the election from saving the club and solving the bullying issue, these things probably made her question their friendship. coupled with the scene of the kids playing and her dream in the morning it is understandable especially after losing love she only has her friendship left and she probably also doesn't want to loss that.
I totally agree with the two way relationship, less with Chisato caring only for the best friend part of their relationship at this moment. I don't think that she gave up on the love side of it. And Yuuki is not keeping secrets from her, Satsuki issues are personal business of her, so tecnically speaking are not secrets, Oojima is acting as anyone would dealing with personal matters.
Having said that I understand her behavior, it's human but still a bit annoying, usually IRL this kind of behavior pushes away people instead of comes closer.
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Old 2012-09-09, 10:40   Link #1076
BladeEntity
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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I totally agree with the two way relationship, less with Chisato caring only for the best friend part of their relationship at this moment. I don't think that she gave up on the love side of it. And Yuuki is not keeping secrets from her, Satsuki issues are personal business of her, so tecnically speaking are not secrets, Oojima is acting as anyone would dealing with personal matters.
Having said that I understand her behavior, it's human but still a bit annoying, usually IRL this kind of behavior pushes away people instead of comes closer.
I agree with it being personal issue , however He is withholding information like spending time with her in her room. He doesn't have to tell her what it was about, but being defensive does not help the cause. But there is a bond between them that is not just about loving each other in the romantic sense, being best friends as it is involves a great amount of trust which Yuuki is in a way straining at least from Chisato's point of view.

For me I saw her as giving it up as she on the promise that he makes to make up for being rejected so for me it means that she accepts that that is the most she will get from him, and even that was tested in the episode. If she were just jealous, I don't think she would have brought up the reporter who is a guy into her argument also she doesn't bring up whatever relationship he and Satsuki may have had in her mind which tells jealousy and love were not in the forefront of her outburst.
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Old 2012-09-09, 11:03   Link #1077
Arya
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I agree with it being personal issue , however He is withholding information like spending time with her in her room. He doesn't have to tell her what it was about, but being defensive does not help the cause. But there is a bond between them that is not just about loving each other in the romantic sense, being best friends as it is involves a great amount of trust which Yuuki is in a way straining at least from Chisato's point of view.

For me I saw her as giving it up as she on the promise that he makes to make up for being rejected so for me it means that she accepts that that is the most she will get from him, and even that was tested in the episode. If she were just jealous, I don't think she would have brought up the reporter who is a guy into her argument also she doesn't bring up whatever relationship he and Satsuki may have had in her mind which tells jealousy and love were not in the forefront of her outburst.
I understand your position, but if we take in count how she used politics arguments to plead her cause it is not so unfair thinking she is doing the same thing with her friendship feelings. Actually it would be pretty down-to-earth for her doing so. For that reason I can't take it. Not that I mean her behavior is not genuine, on the contrary, but simply it hides more than that.
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Old 2012-09-09, 12:17   Link #1078
BladeEntity
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[mod edit: Remove reference to deleted post]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I understand your position, but if we take in count how she used politics arguments to plead her cause it is not so unfair thinking she is doing the same thing with her friendship feelings. Actually it would be pretty down-to-earth for her doing so. For that reason I can't take it. Not that I mean her behavior is not genuine, on the contrary, but simply it hides more than that.
I might or might not hide more than that, I personally liked how they tried to show how some of the dynamics of the relationship have not changed since she was rejected. The very first scene where she is waking with up mirrors that of the start of the show, for me from a directors point of view can be used to emphasise the friendship between the too rather than the love (at least at the moment, it might or might not be a Chisato end). I'll be holding my breath to the very end.

The fact that we do not see any other inclination that she still wants to be together with him romantically instead works on trying to continue having the relationship they shared. IIRC at the end after the whole exchange we see that she is away from the club while they are celebrating, she was clearly still shaken by the situation, but she puts on a smile and joins with the group... She is trying to resign herself to the fact that she might never have her love.

I saw the whole exchange as a validation of Yuuki promise to her, there may have been implications of having romantic feelings, but that's to be expected considering how much time she has spent pining for him, but still I thought that their friendship was a the forefront of her mind when she made her claims. While they seem well thought out, she was probably not in the best frame of mind when saying it therefore coming of as jealous and desperate, even though she was IMO just afraid of becoming more distant from Yuuki
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-09 at 14:43.
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Old 2012-09-10, 01:43   Link #1079
Urzu 7
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What episode is this series up to?

Is there any site that offers it via streaming that is legal streaming and for free? The Anime Network has it, but for free you only get the first episode.
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Old 2012-09-10, 02:58   Link #1080
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What episode is this series up to?

Is there any site that offers it via streaming that is legal streaming and for free? The Anime Network has it, but for free you only get the first episode.
my guess is 12...
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