AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-09-21, 23:31   Link #1341
jzmagic
flargansbog
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
The Chisato x Yuki pairing feels so forced. They tried to cram in all development in one episode and now everything is fine and dandy between the two What a waste.
jzmagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-21, 23:33   Link #1342
Manji Midou
Aimo ~ Tori no Hito
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
ln all honesty from the very beginning the staff pretty much made it clear there would be only two outcomes in the end.

1) Yuki ends with Chisato
2) He ends up alone.

Aside from small interactions with the other girl's no matter how fun they may have been, none of them had as much screen time as chisato or a strong emotional attachment to Yuki like chisato has.
__________________
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg228/teh_tenmanat0r/random%20stuffs/chrocheny.jpg
Manji Midou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 04:34   Link #1343
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, I said from a "big picture overall-narrative perspective", meaning that if you take the first two episodes and see how things were setup, and now as you look at the 11th episode and see how things are resolved, it fits very well.
A scene in Episode 2 that lightly foreshadows a very important plot point that occurs in Episode 11 is all well and good, but there really should be more and smoother continuing buildup than that.

In other words, the foreshadowing should be further developed somewhere in the interim (for example, it would have been very helpful if we had seen some semblance of doubt in Oojima's eyes or words as he flirts with other girls - but such visible doubt or uncertainty was never there at all, imo).

Light foreshadowing of an important plot point shouldn't disappear and seem insignificant for most of the narrative, and then come back into the fore just due to some seemingly randomly chosen exposition device (Mouri, in this case).


Quote:
The flaw here isn't so much in the resolution (which, as I said, aligns quite well with the show's original premise and setup), but in the fact that they exaggerated things along the way, so the resolution seems trite compared to the severity of the problem portrayed.

In a way, you could sort of argue the same thing about the Kana/Harmonica scene -- so much drama and build-up to lead to the encounter, and then all it takes is for Michiru to play Kana's harmonica and Kana wakes up. The resolution doesn't really live up to all the build-up, because the build-up was so over-drama-ified.

In the end, I guess I didn't take it as seriously as you did because I recognized the "over-dramafication" that was likely happening in the last episode.
If a show chooses to over-dramatize something then that's the choice of the producers of the show, and I'm going to take the scene has presented. There's times when it's good to over-dramatize something because it leads to a greater overall effect, so I'm not going to just discount the over-dramatization and make some sort of mental adjustment for it. Besides, viewers shouldn't have to do this. A well-made show frankly doesn't need people to make such mental adjustments because the show itself reaches the right balance between drama and subtlety.

It's probably fair to say that Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate tries too hard to be dramatic and entertaining, and this has a major impact on how the characters are perceived (and in some cases, the impact is definitely for the worst). Ultimately, this show was too ambitious for its own good, at least given the one cour time frame it had to work with.


Quote:
That's why I said at the time that the difference was people focusing on the severity of the trauma vs. people focusing on the symbolism of the resolution.
If the show's producers are expecting people to care more about a piece of symbolism from Episode 2 than about the trauma being displayed right now in the current episode, then that frankly shows a major miscalculation on the part of the show's producers. It's only natural for people to focus on the severity of the trauma.


Quote:
In the end, you sort of have to be willing to be taken along for the ride, and just roll with the over-exaggerated drama as part of the thrill.
Thrilling? That's how you found the display of Chisato's trauma?

I found it quite disturbing myself, and I think that's how most observers would find Chisato's actions in that scene.


Now, Koi to Senkyo to Chocholate certainly had a lot of nice scenes, and the election plot itself was extremely engaging. I think that's part of the reason why some of us are so disappointed here, as this show had considerable potential. It might still live up to that potential as far as the election plot alone is concerned, but I'm admittedly skeptical there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Manji Midou View Post
ln all honesty from the very beginning the staff pretty much made it clear there would be only two outcomes in the end.

1) Yuki ends with Chisato
2) He ends up alone.
Oh, come on. Plenty of people were saying only two or three episodes ago that one of the show's strengths was how it kept you guessing as to which girl Oojima would end up with.

The staff did not in any way make it clear that it was impossible for Yuki to end up with anybody but Chisato.


Quote:
Aside from small interactions with the other girl's no matter how fun they may have been, none of them had as much screen time as chisato or a strong emotional attachment to Yuki like chisato has.
Balderdash. Satsuki had plenty of screen-time in the first half of the show, and definitely had just as much one-on-one interaction with Yuki as Chisato did, if not more one-on-one interaction than what Chisato had.
__________________

Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-09-22 at 05:44.
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:17   Link #1344
Lukeman1884
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Okay, so a few comments about this episode:
1. The Chisato issue. For the amount of drama they stuffed into the whole "substitute brother" thing, it was resolved WAY too easily. And the way Mifuyu "solved" it seems kinda......................immature. It probably wasn't her intent, but it pretty much just boiled down to :"Either you stop being sad, or I'm gonna go make myself sad too".

2. Speaking of which, the scar. Seriously? My CAT has a bigger scar than that. Not sure why it's that big a deal

3. Someone mentioned that from the VN, all the other club members know is that Chisato doesn't like chocolate. So Mifuyu must be Sherlock Holmes or something, to have figured out the entire situation from a box of half-eaten chocolate bars. And how have they not gone off yet? I've seen what happens when you leave some M&Ms in a desk drawer for 6 months. It's NOT pretty

4. And seriously? Kana awoke from a coma which trained health professionals couldn't cure through the power of friendship and music? When did this become an episode of YGOTAS?
Lukeman1884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:24   Link #1345
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
I agree that the scene with Mifuyu in this episode might look a tad weaker if you haven't played her route in the game.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:25   Link #1346
mistress_kisara
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Balderdash. Satsuki had plenty of screen-time in the first half of the show, and definitely had just as much one-on-one interaction with Yuki as Chisato did, if not more one-on-one interaction than what Chisato had.
But I don't think its as emotional as the one with Chisato..
__________________
mistress_kisara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:33   Link #1347
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistress_kisara View Post
But I don't think its as emotional as the one with Chisato..
Sure, I'll admit to that.

But most of that emotionality wasn't clear until just recently.

It was always clear that Chisato cared more about Oojima than what Satsuki did (though Satsuki did come to care a fair bit about him all the same), but I didn't see any clear indications during the first half of Oojima being moved by Chisato more than what he was moved by Satsuki.


I certainly doubt that anybody is surprised that Oojima has ended up with Chisato. If you were to tell viewers back when Episode 2 was airing that Oojima would end up with Chisato, nobody would be surprised by that. But I don't think it was unthinkable for the anime to go in a different direction and end with Oojima and some other girl.

I mean, here's one area where Mashiro-iro Symphony does come into play - It shows how ending an unified eroge adaptation on someone other than the main heroine is quite possible.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:50   Link #1348
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
Quote:
As for your socalled hints towards Chisato, there were not that many that hinted romance (atleast less in the game) and Yuuki actually realized his true feelings for her in this episode. Before this episode( like Mouri has said) "Daiki"" was holding him back to love Chisato.
Thats main reason why hints in this anime are different then usual hints in normal romances... Mouri explained it well... Since 1 episode childhood flashback showed clearly that Yuuki and Chisato should be in relationship before anime even started. And then (like i writed at that time here) main question appeared- why they arent? What is holding him back? Its not harem where you should look at ecchi scenes, blushing and talking to himself (did she like him?, did i like her? whats my real feelings?,) all over again trying to figure whats main girl will be. Its not that kind of romance anime. I really not like to repeat myself, but i will do it again... Scenes like bath with Chisato- Yuuki zero reaction to her advances are more suggesting and show more about his real feelings then even if he would try to rape her. Anyone remember scene from preelimination when Yuuki had problem after falling down on scene? That was just one glance at Chisato face in this time, but meaning behind it wasnt that simple. Everyone could just quess that its sing of their friendship, one look at her and he recover fast. But whats interesting that he recover subconsciously, just from one glance at her- its not sing of friendship, but sign how strong bond between them really is. There are a lot of small and big interactions between them in this anime and meaning from them tell us more about their feelings then just simple blushing in other eroge adaptations...

Mifuyu, prez Mouri, Yuuki and Chisato interactions and words in last episode explain it everything really clearly in last episode. Its impossible to do it simpler... But a lot of viewers are now too angry that anime is not going into their favourite direction that they dont want or cant see it clearly... It would be better if you just rewatch KoiCho after some time... Without emotions you have now...

There is only one complain you can have here- that its rushed... yes ofc its rushed, but you cant do better in last two episodes... Thats how anime romances works. In 90% of them main character realize his feelings in last few moments of serie. It doesnt matter if its shoujo, shounen, love triangle, sudden girl appearence, love triangle or harem- its always same. There are only few category of romances where its not case, but thats because that few use different schemes. Some ppl told that this anime should have two seasons... But even with two seasons not really a lot would change. Political aspect would be better played, but romance aspect would be same- characters would still running randomly all over the place and Yuuki would still realize his feelings close to end.

If you complain about it you should complain about whole anime industry. Because in the end Koicho is not different then most of anime romances and ends in same way.

Quote:
But most of that emotionality wasn't clear until just recently.
Thats where funny part is- trying to figure out whats that hints really means. Its like trying to get into Yuuki mind and that wasnt that simple like in other eroge adaptations, because Daiki case was that serious. But in last episode Moiri explained it clearly and there is no problem in figuring it out anymore...
__________________
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 06:56   Link #1349
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Didn't read some posts on the previous page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Oojima was on denial the whole time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A scene in Episode 2 that lightly foreshadows a very important plot point that occurs in Episode 11 is all well and good, but there really should be more and smoother continuing buildup than that.

In other words, the foreshadowing should be further developed somewhere in the interim (for example, it would have been very helpful if we had seen some semblance of doubt in Oojima's eyes or words as he flirts with other girls - but such visible doubt or uncertainty was never there at all, imo).

Light foreshadowing of an important plot point shouldn't disappear and seem insignificant for most of the narrative, and then come back into the fore just due to some seemingly randomly chosen exposition device (Mouri, in this case).

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-22 at 10:17.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 07:17   Link #1350
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
Spoiler for Mashiro and Koicho differences:
__________________

Last edited by Dorsai; 2012-09-22 at 07:49.
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 07:17   Link #1351
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Thats main reason why hints in this anime are different then usual hints in normal romances... Mouri explained it well... Since 1 episode childhood flashback showed clearly that Yuuki and Chisato should be in relationship before anime even started.
Flashbacks of the past are not always a sign of definite proof. There are a few animes in which it did not work out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post

And then (like i writed at that time here) main question appeared- why they arent? What is holding him back? Its not harem where you should look at ecchi scenes, blushing and talking to himself (did she like him?, did i like her? whats my real feelings?,) all over again trying to figure whats main girl will be. Its not that kind of romance anime. I really not like to repeat myself, but i will do it again... Scenes like bath with Chisato- Yuuki zero reaction to her advances are more suggesting and show more about his real feelings then even if he would try to rape her.
Sorry, i don't get what you are trying to say here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Anyone remember scene from preelimination when Yuuki had problem after falling down on scene? That was just one glance at Chisato face in this time, but meaning behind it wasnt that simple. Everyone could just quess that its sing of their friendship, one look at her and he recover fast. But whats interesting that he recover subconsciously, just from one glance at her- its not sing of friendship, but sign how strong bond between them really is. There are a lot of small and big interactions between them in this anime and meaning from them tell us more about their feelings then just simple blushing in other eroge adaptations...
While it's certainly a sign of bond, i can't call that romance. He didn't want to make Chisato worry , so he decided to man up and pretty much improvise everything. It shows that they have a deep bond that they have build for over 10 or so years, not that he was in love.
Also that scene was purely anime original

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post

Mifuyu, prez Mouri, Yuuki and Chisato interactions and words in last episode explain it everything really clearly in last episode. Its impossible to do it simpler... But a lot of viewers are now too angry that anime is not going into their favourite direction that they dont want or cant see it clearly... It would be better if you just rewatch KoiCho after some time... Without emotions you have now...
The explanation doesn't have that much impact if there were no signs of implied scenes of him doubting his feelings

I started with no bias towards any heroine and have rewatched the anime and even reread the game 2-3 times over the past 11 weeks, yet i can still easily complain about the lack of romance overall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
There is only one complain you can have here- that its rushed... yes ofc its rushed, but you cant do better in last two episodes... Thats how anime romances works. In 90% of them main character realize his feelings in last few moments of serie. It doesnt matter if its shoujo, shounen, love triangle, sudden girl appearence, love triangle or harem- its always same. There are only few category of romances where its not case, but thats because that few use different schemes. Some ppl told that this anime should have two seasons... But even with two seasons not really a lot would change. Political aspect would be better played, but romance aspect would be same- characters would still running randomly all over the place and Yuuki would still realize his feelings close to end.
I don't blame the rushing on the lack of episodes for this anime (this time), but rather on the lack of focus on one particular heroine. The story would be less of a mess if the anime did not try to add almost every story elements from all the heroines in 12 episodes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Thats where funny part is- trying to figure out whats that hints really means. Its like trying to get into Yuuki mind and that wasnt that simple like in other eroge adaptations, because Daiki case was that serious. But in last episode Moiri explained it clearly and there is no problem in figuring it out anymore...
As i was saying before, this whole affaire explained by Mouri severly cheapens the whole development. It's less implied for the viewer. Also getting in his mind was rather impossible, because the anime stayed ambigues untill episode 10.

Also care to tell what other hints there were in the previous episodes besides Daiki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Spoiler for Mashiro and Koicho differences:
I wasn't actually going too much in mashifoni anime, because this is not the right topic for it but i think that you are still too much biased towards a specific heroine.
I never thought that mashifoni changed it's direction for another heroine mid way.While this can be debated seeing how the anime primarily focused on one character for 5 episodes, but
Spoiler for mashifoni:

You say that you keep finding hints about Yuuki and Chisato, yet you failed to see the more implied and subtile hints in mashifoni?

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-22 at 10:13. Reason: restore spoiler tag in quote
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 07:43   Link #1352
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
Quote:
Flashbacks of the past are not always a sign of definite proof. There are a few animes in which it did not work out.
It doesnt matter how it looks like in other anime, it matters how it looks like in this one. To understand it better you need to compare it with relationship between them after that 10 years. In my opinion without Daiki case they would be together long time ago. Yuuki even clearly confirm it in last episode that she loved her all that time.

Quote:
Sorry, i don't get what you are trying to say here.
Its impossible for healthy man to not reacting to Chisato naked body after her advances. And like i said earlier ofc i not mean make move on her, but not even blushing? Its not normal. Chisato wasnt only one deeply affected psychically by Daiki case, Yuuki was same too. He suffer because of it for 10 years. And there is more scenes like this one in bath where we can see how much Yuuki suffer, because he cant have normal relationship with girl he love so much.

Quote:
While it's certainly a sign of bond, i can't call that romance. (...)
Bond its sth that usually grow between partners after few years of relationship. But sometimes people have deep bond between them before romantical love started. And sometimes it can be even stronger then any kind of romantic relationship between them. Thats why childhood friends are usually afraid to start dating together- because that bond is more important to them and they afraid of loosing it- if you start relationship there is always chance that you break up in future... Similiar between twins- there are a lot of cases that bond between twins is more important to them then their love to parents, wifes and even childrens... You shouldnt treat bond between people that lightly...

Spoiler for for Mashiro:
__________________

Last edited by Dorsai; 2012-09-22 at 07:58.
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 07:50   Link #1353
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
It doesnt matter how it looks like in other anime, it matters how it looks like in this one. To understand it better you need to compare it with relationship between them after that 10 years. In my opinion without Daiki case they would be together long time ago. Yuuki even clearly confirm it in last episode that she loved her all that time.
Yes, but i never saw anything about it up untill now.
Also this flashback is common route material and it ended up being not used in any of the other routes except Chisato's. Also Yuuki has forgotten about that flashback entirely and he only remembered that during the mock wedding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Its impossible for healthy man to not reacting to Chisato naked body after her advances. And like i said earlier ofc i not mean make move on her, but not even blushing? Its not normal. Chisato wasnt only one deeply affected psychically by Daiki case, Yuuki was same too. He suffer because of it for 10 years. And there is more scenes like this one in bath where we can see how much Yuuki suffer, because he cant have normal relationship with girl he love so much.
answer: conflicted feelings. Deep inside he loved her, but there was the issue of him being Daiki for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Bond its sth that usually grow between partners after few years of relationship. But sometimes people have deep bond between them before romantical love started. And sometimes it can be even stronger then any kind of romantic relationship between them. Thats why childhood friends are usually afraid to start dating together- because that bond is more important to them and they afraid of loosing it- if you start relationship there is always chance that you break up in future... Similiar between twins- there are a lot of cases that bond between twins is more important to them then their love to parents, wifes and even childrens... You shouldnt treat bond between people that lightly...
There is one other kind of relationship that you keep forgetting that they also have for roughly 10 years to a certain extent: a bond between sister and brother.
While this may sound odd, their relationship is much more complicated than you think. I don't think that scene implied romance.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 08:08   Link #1354
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
I will said one thing clearly- im not shipper in this anime. This anime havent female archetypes i like most in romances. But still i was rooting for Chisato winning from begining- simple because of strong bond between them. In romances like this feelings between characters are most important for me. And i not care which girl is more ideal for me, but what MC real feelings are. Without that all if it will be more Mishiro kind of romance, where Yuuki for example just transfer to new school and meet some girls for first time in his life i think i would root for Satsuki more then for Chisato.

Quote:
Yes, but i never saw anything about it up untill now.
Also this flashback is common route material and it ended up being not used in any of the other routes except Chisato's. Also Yuuki has forgotten about that flashback entirely and he only remembered that during the mock wedding.
You should stop talking all time about game perspective. Its adaptation, what means its separate work. Game was just merely source for anime, nothing more. Like i said earlier to understand this scene better you need to look at whole relationship between them, from begining to end. This scene and their interactions in first episode give us one big question- why they are not in relationship? Its clear that they should be in one for some time... And answer is showed in last two episodes...

Quote:
answer: conflicted feelings. Deep inside he loved her, but there was the issue of him being Daiki for her.
See? You know answer. It wasnt that hard, did it?

Quote:
There is one other kind of relationship that you keep forgetting that they also have for roughly 10 years to a certain extent: a bond between sister and brother.
While this may sound odd, their relationship is much more complicated than you think. I don't think that scene implied romance.
Sometimes between childhood friends its case, but not in this anime. Bond between them never was like between sister and brother. And that wasnt problem here. If not for Daiki case they would be together long time ago.
__________________

Last edited by Dorsai; 2012-09-22 at 08:20.
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 08:42   Link #1355
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post

You should stop talking all time about game perspective. Its adaptation, what means its separate work. Game was just merely source for anime, nothing more. Like i said earlier to understand this scene better you need to look at whole relationship between them, from begining to end. This scene and their interactions in first episode give us one big question- why they are not in relationship? Its clear that they should be in one for some time... And answer is showed in last two episodes...
Ok, from the point from only looking at the anime: what was the entire point of shoving the viewer so many developments related to Satsuki, Isara, Mifuyu and Michiru, while underdeveloping Chisato up untill the last 2 episodes?
Also you keep insisting by "watch the last 2 episodes", so what kept you from believing the same for Mashifoni. The developments there were done in more than 2 episodes and you refused that.

Also you seem to misunderstand me. If i haven't read the game, my opinion for Chisato would be even less high. It's because i know how their relationship in the game was, is what preventing me from disliking her any bit. Especially in episode 10, in which most people started to dislike her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
See? You know answer. It wasnt that hard, did it?
I have no idea what that sarcasm was supposed to mean. I had difficulties answering your previous question because you were exagerating if you don't get aroused by a girl in bath, that it means that you are a rapist or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Sometimes between childhood friends its case, but not in this anime. Bond between them never was like between sister and brother. And that wasnt problem here. If not for Daiki case they would be together long time ago.
Interesting that you never saw their relationship as brother and sister.
So how did you see the last episode? The scenes in which Yuuki was being frustrated for being Daiki for Chisato, while Chisato needed Yuuki as an emotional support the whole time for the guilt and loss of Daiki?

And the whole base for the story would entirely fall apart if it weren't Daiki, because you would have lost the whole chocolate drama plus the whole reason why Yuuki searching for "Love" as Relentlessflame has nicely put it. You can't leave out important plot element out of your own convenience.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-09-22 at 08:55.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 09:08   Link #1356
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
Quote:
Ok, from the point from only looking at the anime (...)
Mouri already answered it that he is looking for replacement for Chisato. Though even this he was just doing half-heartedly, like just another wall behind whom his real feelings can hide. Beside sexual attraction and innocent flirt there is nothing, even between him and Satsuki. Not even one situation promising burgeoning love between them. It show more then he is running away, then trying to move forward.

Quote:
I have no idea what that sarcasm was supposed to mean. I had difficulties answering your previous question because you were exagerating if you don't get aroused by a girl in bath, that it means that you are a rapist or something.
Hm i never said anything about rapist. I just said that his no reaction to her give us more hints about his
Quote:
conflicted feelings. Deep inside he loved her, but there was the issue of him being Daiki for her.
then if he would even try to rape her in this situation.

Quote:
Interesting that you never saw their relationship as brother and sister. (...)
And how would it prove that they treat each over like brother and sister? He was just simple replacement, even if Daiki would be her father, uncle, best friend, sister, mother etc Yuuki role in this case would be same. It not means that she ever treat him like brother, her psychical problem wasnt that she lost her brother, but lost itself and how it happen (her guilty).
__________________
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 09:19   Link #1357
hyl
imouto lover
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Mouri already answered it that he is looking for replacement for Chisato. Though even this he was just doing half-heartedly, like just another wall behind whom his real feelings can hide. Beside sexual attraction and innocent flirt there is nothing, even between him and Satsuki. Not even one situation promising burgeoning love between them. It show more then he is running away, then trying to move forward.
Yes and i have giving my reaction to that multiple times starting with this post yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
The weakness to that scene was that it should have been made obvious to viewer by Yuuki himself in some kind of way (like more inner thoughts or something else), not by Mouri (essentially a 3rd party in this case who wasn't even directly involved in this) who could read Yuuki like an open book.

Actually i am not even sure what to think of that scene. It makes Mouri much more imposing seeing how good his intelligence network is, but on the other hand it's as the writer thought: "let's add this scene to make the whole drama about Chisato and Yuuki more believable by explaining Yuuki's inner thoughts and feelings."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Hm i never said anything about rapist. I just said that his no reaction to her give us more hints about his then if he would even try to rape her in this situation.
It was a reaction to this, that i could not understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
. Scenes like bath with Chisato- Yuuki zero reaction to her advances are more suggesting and show more about his real feelings then even if he would try to rape her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
And how would it prove that they treat each over like brother and sister? He was just simple replacement, even if Daiki would be her father, uncle, best friend, sister, mother etc Yuuki role in this case would be same. It not means that she ever treat him like brother, her psychical problem wasnt that she lost her brother, but lost itself and how it happen (her guilty).
Not eachother, but how Chisato treated Yuuki. That is what made their relationship uncomfortable for Yuuki in the previous episode.

edit: i have actually no idea what you are actually trying to say in the last few posts.
Are you implying that whole deal with Chisato was made believable just because of what Mouri said in less than 20 seconds? Besides the obvious chocolate related scenes with chisato that ended up being not romantically at all, i actually have not seen that many hints that Yuuki was romantically interested towards Chisato nor any hints that he was conflicted because he liked her deep inside.
Also you keep avoiding naming a few of these hints, so i have no actual incentive to believe your claims at this moment.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-09-22 at 09:39.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 09:52   Link #1358
Manji Midou
Aimo ~ Tori no Hito
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Oh, come on. Plenty of people were saying only two or three episodes ago that one of the show's strengths was how it kept you guessing as to which girl Oojima would end up with.

The staff did not in any way make it clear that it was impossible for Yuki to end up with anybody but Chisato.

l just returned to this forum a few days ago from a long hiatus so l wouldn't know what the consensus here was.

But if you stop to think about it, none of the other female characters got as much screen time as chisato, all Yuki had with the other girls was nice little moments but nothing big.
l'm a Mifuyu fan and l'm not happy about the choice but at the same time l realise that the only choice was Chisato all along. The other girls were just there to tease with the possibility but at the end not to be taken serious.
__________________
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg228/teh_tenmanat0r/random%20stuffs/chrocheny.jpg
Manji Midou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 09:59   Link #1359
Dorsai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 29
Yuuki was uncomfortable, because their relationship stopped at point that was 10 years ago. They grow up, both psychically and mentally, both of them develop strong feelings to each over, but they hide it deeply in their heart. Because of Daiki case. Yuuki was never brother to Chisato and she never treated him like one. He was just simple replacement because of her trauma and guilty feelings. If the one who died would be her father, mother or sister Yuuki could still be replacement in same way. But even this was just another wall behind whom Chisato real feelings was hidden. Same with Yuuki, his problem wasnt less serious, he created walls to hide his real feelings too. Thats why it wasnt that easy to figure out his real feelings till last episodes and thats why a lot of people was still thiking that Yuuki still have a lot of possibilities for winning girl. But that was never case here. Mouri explanation (Mifuyu too) was just to simple explain it for viewers. Because its not game, where player can look into MC mind and see everything clearly. Thats why we not see how troubled by his relationship with Chisato Yuuki is, but that not means he is not thinking about it in his mind all the time.

About chocolate scene in 10 episode- it was first time then Yuuki break behind walls he created and speak what he really have deeply in his heart. You can complain that in this scene he didnt said it clearly- "i love you", but that wasnt necessary there and it was too early for him to do it. It was deeply emotional scene, really hard for him, because it was first time after 10 years when he tried to come to grips with his own feelings. Look in his eyes when he was complaining that she not love him and his decision that he dont want to be replacement anymore but just real Yuuki to her was enough in this scene. I think its even better then he realize everything in next episode, while talking with Mouri. Its 10 years trauma, you cant bring all that emotions in one scene, he would break down for real from this.
__________________
Dorsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-22, 10:09   Link #1360
Manji Midou
Aimo ~ Tori no Hito
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post

About chocolate scene in 10 episode- it was first time then Yuuki break behind walls he created and speak what he really have deeply in his heart. You can complain that in this scene he didnt said it clearly- "i love you", but that wasnt necessary there and it was too early for him to do it. It was deeply emotional scene, really hard for him, because it was first time after 10 years when he tried to come to grips with his own feelings. Look in his eyes when he was complaining that she not love him and his decision that he dont want to be replacement anymore but just real Yuuki to her was enough in this scene. I think its even better then he realize everything in next episode, while talking with Mouri. Its 10 years trauma, you cant bring all that emotions in one scene, he would break down for real from this.
Pretty much this. Yuki loves Chisato but he couldn't come to terms with chisato's affection and words because he had been afraid they weren't genuine and that he was only a replacement for daiki and not true love.
__________________
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg228/teh_tenmanat0r/random%20stuffs/chrocheny.jpg
Manji Midou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bishoujo, drama, eroge, politics, romance, school life, seinen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.