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Old 2012-04-30, 10:39   Link #841
FredFriendly
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I consider myself to be lucky in so far as, while watching episode 1 for the first time, the thought that there were any similarities to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya did not cross my mind, otherwise, I may have dropped this series right then and there.

I was actually surprised, when reading other posts, that some people were going on and on about how many similarities this series, or the characters themselves, appeared to have with Haurhi. As someone who owns Haurhi, and has watched most episodes many times (I have actually even watched all of the Endless Eight more than once), I had to go and watch episode 1 of Hyouka again with a concious effort to find any similarities.

Really, other than superficial elements (school club setting, boy meets girl, etc.), the only thing that struck me was that Hontarou, not Eru, was more like Suzumiya herself with his ready, willing, and able attitude to purposely deceive someone. This was further emphasized during episode 2 where he states that, "What's important isn't the truth..." I was surprised to see that his attitude towards Eru in episode 2 seems to have become worse, not better. After having denied that he had wanted to reject Eru at the end of the first episode, it seemed that he, at least, did not dislike her. However, after being so abrupt and rude in the cafe, like Suzumiya, he seems to be completely insensitive to the feelings of others, and, like Suzumiya, may also have a downright despicable side, as well. At the moment, if I were to drop this series, the only reason would be Hontarou's treatment of Eru.

As to the Suzumiya versus Eru debate, they seem to be polar opposites. I can't possibly imagine, from what we know of her at the moment, that Eru would drug Mayaka so that Satoshi or Hontarou could rape her. I just don't see that happening, whereas Suzumiya would do anything or sacrifice anybody to accomplish her goal, regardless of the moral, legal or ethical consequences. Really, can you imagine Eru grabbing and fondling Mayaka and inviting the boys to do the same?

As to being boring, episode 1 of Hyouka, to me, was far less boring than episode 00 of Haurhi, which, frankly, I didn't enjoy at all. It didn't make me want to see the next episode, whereas, episode 1 of Hyouka did entice me enough to at least watch episode 2, just to see where the series might be headed. And, subsequently, episode 2 of Hyouka has enticed me enough to want to see episode 3.
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Old 2012-04-30, 10:46   Link #842
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With regards to his behaviour, I am under the impression that Houtarou is just out of his comfort zone, and he is venting his frustration on the source of his discomfort. Put it simply, he is confounded by his new-found relationship with Eru (in general, not in a romantic sense).

Until he learns to accept the new status quo, he will probably continue to brim with discontent over the new direction that his life has taken.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-04-30, 10:52   Link #843
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what a cliffhanger ... i bet that is not the 'confess' .

looking forward to next episode.
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Old 2012-04-30, 11:33   Link #844
orion
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
With regards to his behaviour, I am under the impression that Houtarou is just out of his comfort zone, and he is venting his frustration on the source of his discomfort. Put it simply, he is confounded by his new-found relationship with Eru (in general, not in a romantic sense).

Until he learns to accept the new status quo, he will probably continue to brim with discontent over the new direction that his life has taken.

Cheers.
Totally agree. Eru is dragging him kicking and screaming out of not getting involved with anyone. He couldn't handle a relationship in his current state other than being casual friends. Joining a club was prob a big step for him.
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Old 2012-04-30, 11:52   Link #845
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It's interesting to see the number of people condemning Houtarou's behavior at the cafe, because honestly that's where I felt that I understood him the best. Maybe it's because I also place a really high value on my free time, and really hate when someone interrupts it. When someone drags me out of my free time to go somewhere and do something, then it stops being free time. It becomes work, and work is exactly what I need the free time to recover from. If I don't get enough free time to recover, stress begins to build up, and after a while things get... well... bad.

So here Houtarou has been dragged out of his essential recovery time without any real reason to meet with this girl. She shows up late, and then sits there without explaining anything for a while. When he, justifiably irritated at all this, asks why she had to drag him out there to meet with her, instead of answering she just says that he was the one who chose to meet there, not her.

So now we have a girl who has wasted his precious free time with this charade, for (as far as he can tell) no reason at all. Houtarou's irritated, he's tired, he didn't want to be here in the first place, he's already lost a fair chunk of his day on this little fiasco, and the girl doesn't even have a good reason for inflicting all this on him. So he decides "the hell with this" and starts to walk out. I don't think I would actually go that far, because try to maintain a certain level of politeness, but I would probably be feeling like I want to do that, at least. And I might get somewhat sharp when I explain to the person who brought me there that there are other things I'd rather be doing with my day, so if this really is something important would they please get on with it already.

It's easy to sympathize with Eru: she's cute, she's nervous, and this guy's being mean to her. But it's easy to forget that Houtarou has a point of view in this as well. Folks shouldn't condemn him without stopping to think about how he feels, and remembering that it's harder to sympathize with someone when you're already irritated with them, like Houtarou is with Eru. He isn't seeing a nervous girl trying to work up the courage to tell him something right now, he's seeing someone he's upset with.
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:10   Link #846
Merry
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I've enjoyed the past two episodes. I don't really get what people see in terms of similarities to other shows... The character designs are attractive and the animation is very good. I'll continue watching this!
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:34   Link #847
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Oreki sure is a pretty lazy guy.
If it weren't for that girl and his friend to drag him along...
The case of the mysterious book from the library begins.
The investigation was interesting, but short.
Oreki sure has a detective's mind.
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:38   Link #848
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
With regards to his behaviour, I am under the impression that Houtarou is just out of his comfort zone, and he is venting his frustration on the source of his discomfort. Put it simply, he is confounded by his new-found relationship with Eru (in general, not in a romantic sense).

Until he learns to accept the new status quo, he will probably continue to brim with discontent over the new direction that his life has taken.

Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Totally agree. Eru is dragging him kicking and screaming out of not getting involved with anyone. He couldn't handle a relationship in his current state other than being casual friends. Joining a club was prob a big step for him.
I don't disagree with these assessments. He does seem to be flopping around like a fish out water, but it still doesn't mean that, if he's in a socially uncomfortable situation, he has to be a total jerk. There are plenty of instances in anime (and real life) where socially awkard individuals are still polite, even under the most stressfull situations.

But, shouldn't he be used to her by now? As for episode 2, it's been a month, after all, and he's been voluntarily going to the Classics Club room, "whenever I feel bored after school," implying that this episode's visit was one of a few, if not many. No doubt Eru is also there each and every time he stops by. Judging by their meeting in the club room this episode, he is still not very friendly with her, even though he will eat her sweets and drink the tea that I'm guessing she made (according to his motto, it would be too much of a bother for him to make it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
It's interesting to see the number of people condemning Houtarou's behavior at the cafe, because honestly that's where I felt that I understood him the best... I don't think I would actually go that far, because try to maintain a certain level of politeness, but I would probably be feeling like I want to do that, at least... He isn't seeing a nervous girl trying to work up the courage to tell him something right now, he's seeing someone he's upset with.
It's also interesting to see how many people are willing to forgive his rude, impolite behaviour. It doesn't seem to me that this behaviour is a new thing with him, more likely he's fundamentally a mean-spirited jerk with no manners (notice how he relates to Mayaka). So far, I haven't seen much from Houtarou that could be considered friendly, kind, or sympathetic.

I don't disagree with your overall assessment of his attitude under the circumstances, and have, on occassion, wanted to tell the other party where to get off, but, like you, I try to maintain a level of politeness. At least he didn't go so far as to stick a fork in her hand for being annoying.

As to why Eru puts up with him, that must be because she wants him to do something for her. I don't really get any romantic vibes from her towards Houtarou and, if his attitude doesn't improve, I hope I'm right. It would be very disappointing if she were to fall for such a jerk who thinks so little of her as to intentionally decieve her and feels so irritated by her that he can't give her the time of day.
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:46   Link #849
Julio C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
I consider myself to be lucky in so far as, while watching episode 1 for the first time, the thought that there were any similarities to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya did not cross my mind, otherwise, I may have dropped this series right then and there.

I was actually surprised, when reading other posts, that some people were going on and on about how many similarities this series, or the characters themselves, appeared to have with Haurhi. As someone who owns Haurhi, and has watched most episodes many times (I have actually even watched all of the Endless Eight more than once), I had to go and watch episode 1 of Hyouka again with a concious effort to find any similarities.

Really, other than superficial elements (school club setting, boy meets girl, etc.), the only thing that struck me was that Hontarou, not Eru, was more like Suzumiya herself with his ready, willing, and able attitude to purposely deceive someone. This was further emphasized during episode 2 where he states that, "What's important isn't the truth..." I was surprised to see that his attitude towards Eru in episode 2 seems to have become worse, not better. After having denied that he had wanted to reject Eru at the end of the first episode, it seemed that he, at least, did not dislike her. However, after being so abrupt and rude in the cafe, like Suzumiya, he seems to be completely insensitive to the feelings of others, and, like Suzumiya, may also have a downright despicable side, as well. At the moment, if I were to drop this series, the only reason would be Hontarou's treatment of Eru.

As to the Suzumiya versus Eru debate, they seem to be polar opposites. I can't possibly imagine, from what we know of her at the moment, that Eru would drug Mayaka so that Satoshi or Hontarou could rape her. I just don't see that happening, whereas Suzumiya would do anything or sacrifice anybody to accomplish her goal, regardless of the moral, legal or ethical consequences. Really, can you imagine Eru grabbing and fondling Mayaka and inviting the boys to do the same?

As to being boring, episode 1 of Hyouka, to me, was far less boring than episode 00 of Haurhi, which, frankly, I didn't enjoy at all. It didn't make me want to see the next episode, whereas, episode 1 of Hyouka did entice me enough to at least watch episode 2, just to see where the series might be headed. And, subsequently, episode 2 of Hyouka has enticed me enough to want to see episode 3.
For someone that watched Haruhi series that many times how can you not find any similiraties in Hyouka? I watched the Haruhi series practically as much as you did (endless eight twice) and I right away found some similarities between the shows. Hontarou is a bit of both Kyon and Haruhi, and you maybe right about Eru being polar opposite of Haruhi.


That was great episode, that ED was something though. Eru is really pushing Hontarou to an unsafe level. I don't blame him for acting the way he did at the cafe since Eru talk him into coming in the first place. I feel like Hontarou is going to snap one day if Eru keeps this up, and at that point it's probably going to crush her. This could lead to some serious consequence.
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:18   Link #850
Korps!
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
It's interesting to see the number of people condemning Houtarou's behavior at the cafe, because honestly that's where I felt that I understood him the best. Maybe it's because I also place a really high value on my free time, and really hate when someone interrupts it. When someone drags me out of my free time to go somewhere and do something, then it stops being free time. It becomes work, and work is exactly what I need the free time to recover from. If I don't get enough free time to recover, stress begins to build up, and after a while things get... well... bad.

[...]

It's easy to sympathize with Eru: she's cute, she's nervous, and this guy's being mean to her. But it's easy to forget that Houtarou has a point of view in this as well. Folks shouldn't condemn him without stopping to think about how he feels, and remembering that it's harder to sympathize with someone when you're already irritated with them, like Houtarou is with Eru. He isn't seeing a nervous girl trying to work up the courage to tell him something right now, he's seeing someone he's upset with.
That's pretty much how I felt it was, Eru is very intrusive yet she fails to notice it.

Anyway as for the episode, 'twas still slow, 'twas still uneventful, but it somehow manage to get the job done. Mayaka's antagonist relationship with Houtarou brought something new to the game.
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:21   Link #851
FredFriendly
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Originally Posted by Julio C View Post
For someone that watched Haruhi series that many times how can you not find any similiraties in Hyouka? I watched the Haruhi series practically as much as you did (endless eight twice) and I right away found some similarities between the shows. Hontarou is a bit of both Kyon and Haruhi, and you maybe right about Eru being polar opposite of Haruhi.
I would say, for one thing, I watch each anime for its own merits, and I don't go in for a lot of comparative analysis. Watching a first episode I like to enjoy (or not) the anime for whatever it has to offer, not what it has to offer as compared to some other anime.

One of the things I find annoying with many anime reviews is that the reviewer spends a lot of the time (if not most) comparing the anime in question to this anime or that anime, instead of discussing the anime on its own merits. Same thing on these forums. Am I the only person in the anime universe who has not watched (and probably never will) K-On!? Any references to that series is useless for me, even though it seems to be the series most often compared to whatever current series I'm watching.

It's not like I can't do a comparative analysis between Haruhi and Hyouka. Sure, you can find similar, basic character traits between Kyon and Hontarou, as well as Hontarou and Suzumiya, just like you can find many similarities between one politician and another. But, as they are different characters, I would just as soon not make any comparisons, and just watch and see if, and how much, the characters develop over the course of the series.
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:26   Link #852
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Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
It's also interesting to see how many people are willing to forgive his rude, impolite behaviour. It doesn't seem to me that this behaviour is a new thing with him, more likely he's fundamentally a mean-spirited jerk with no manners (notice how he relates to Mayaka). So far, I haven't seen much from Houtarou that could be considered friendly, kind, or sympathetic.
I personally found calling someone out on a day off with no explanation then showing up late and wasting time instead of getting to the point more rude than Houtarou's reaction. If she's not considerate of his need for time/space (the scene where she forces the book in his face is another good example) I can't expect him to be considerate of her.
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:30   Link #853
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I guess it's easy (even natural?) to compare anime made by the same studio, especially when the basic premise revolve around 4-5 students and their club activities (KyoAni doesn't really bother with anything that hasn't student life in it).
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:30   Link #854
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Like the characters in this series I feel like I'm just watching to pass the time. I get the feeling this cliffhanger won't have much of a payoff either. Though I do like the imagery in the mystery analysis scenes and it's also nice to have an SoL anime that isn't an all girls cast or a cast with downplayed males. Dunno what to make of the characters individually.
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:46   Link #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
I would say, for one thing, I watch each anime for its own merits, and I don't go in for a lot of comparative analysis. Watching a first episode I like to enjoy (or not) the anime for whatever it has to offer, not what it has to offer as compared to some other anime.

One of the things I find annoying with many anime reviews is that the reviewer spends a lot of the time (if not most) comparing the anime in question to this anime or that anime, instead of discussing the anime on its own merits. Same thing on these forums. Am I the only person in the anime universe who has not watched (and probably never will) K-On!? Any references to that series is useless for me, even though it seems to be the series most often compared to whatever current series I'm watching.

It's not like I can't do a comparative analysis between Haruhi and Hyouka. Sure, you can find similar, basic character traits between Kyon and Hontarou, as well as Hontarou and Suzumiya, just like you can find many similarities between one politician and another. But, as they are different characters, I would just as soon not make any comparisons, and just watch and see if, and how much, the characters develop over the course of the series.
I also watch an anime for its own merits even when I find similarities between other shows. In fact, I actually don't like it when an anime series is being compared to another (in some cases) especially on reviews like you mentioned. For example, for the show Ano Natsu de Matteru some people were going on and on about how similar it is to to another series Onegai Teacher and how they might actually connect each other with one being the sequel to another. Can we just drop this and actually talk about the show for its own merits? There was never an official word that both shows were connected or related.

Why won't you watch K-ON!? That's a series that almost anybody can appeal can relate, it's not just a moeblob show that only appeals to moe fans, there is a lot more to it than that.
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Old 2012-04-30, 14:42   Link #856
FredFriendly
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I personally found calling someone out on a day off with no explanation then showing up late and wasting time instead of getting to the point more rude than Houtarou's reaction. If she's not considerate of his need for time/space (the scene where she forces the book in his face is another good example) I can't expect him to be considerate of her.
So, you think he should go out of his way to be inconsiderate, rude, and insulting? After all, he agreed to meet with her, so any blame lies equally with himself, if not more so, since he could just as easily refused to meet with her. We don't know why, or how late she was (it could have only been five minutes, for all we know), but she certainly seemed to have been trying her best to get there on time (she was breathing hard when she showed up, as if she had just been running). My guess would be that she was unfamiliar with the cafe he told her to meet him at, and she found it difficult to find. It seems to me that he waited ten minutes after she did arrive before asking her why she called him out just so that he could justify his anger. He could just as easily have asked her right away, which would seem to be the most logical thing to do for someone who professes to want to get things done as quickly as possible.

If, after a month, she still annoys him so much, he should do the honest thing and tell her he doesn't want to associate with her anymore, and quit the club. But, we already know that honesty is not one of his better qualities.

As for the scene where Eru forces the book in Houtarou's face, personally, I found it quite amusing, along with forcing him to choose the red menu. Sure, she may be pushy, and she may be inconsiderate (blindly, in my opinion, not intentionally, like Houtarou), but she's not insulting and a mean-spirited jerk. If Houtarou doesn't like it, he could make the choice to opt out of the relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korps! View Post
I guess it's easy (even natural?) to compare anime made by the same studio, especially when the basic premise revolve around 4-5 students and their club activities (KyoAni doesn't really bother with anything that hasn't student life in it).
I wonder if, in advance of watching episode 1 of any particular anime, not knowing who the director was, or which studio produced it, or the cast list, would the enjoyment of that particular episode be different? I think it would, and I think people would be less critical, and enjoy it more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio C View Post
I also watch an anime for its own merits even when I find similarities between other shows. In fact, I actually don't like it when an anime series is being compared to another (in some cases) especially on reviews like you mentioned. For example, for the show Ano Natsu de Matteru some people were going on and on about how similar it is to to another series Onegai Teacher and how they might actually connect each other with one being the sequel to another. Can we just drop this and actually talk about the show for its own merits? There was never an official word that both shows were connected or related.

Why won't you watch K-ON!? That's a series that almost anybody can appeal can relate, it's not just a moeblob show that only appeals to moe fans, there is a lot more to it than that.
I get what you mean about the Ano Natsu x Onegai Teacher comparisons. Probably a third, maybe even a half of all posts on the Ano Natsu animesuki thread had some comment comparing the two.

As far as watching K-ON! goes, I forget why I originally decided not to watch it, but it was probably something to do with the offical description. Now, it's more of a reaction to all the references to it in all the reviews of other shows, and all the comparisions to it on all the forums I've seen.

But, we are getting too far off-topic here.
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Old 2012-04-30, 15:54   Link #857
ThereminVox
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Originally Posted by Akarin View Post
This anime is visually impressive, really love the bell sound and the bloom effect whenever Chitanda gets curious.

Images
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Eru is a walking photobomb.

I know she's got dem eyes, but I dunno... I guess I'm not seeing her appeal to the degree that some are. Honestly, I can't think of anything she could do that would make m-

Spoiler for ...:


make... me...
uh...

...

Your charm has increased by 36%.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:29   Link #858
xizro345
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I haven't watched Haruhi (totally dislike the whole concept) or K-ON! so I really can't make comparisons, but I didn't find the episodes boring. Aside for being visually "odd" (though not in the SHAFT / SILVER LINK sense) I think the pace is ok. Oh, and if I had to make a parallel between Hotarou and someone else, Mycroft Holmes would be probably the first thing in my mind.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:33   Link #859
felix
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...

What are guys smoking?

Since when is boy & girl school drama invented by "haruhi / k-on"? Is it because *gasp* there is a-girl in it... gosh what innovation...

The only similarity between the three is that they all revolve around solving "school" problems; from various angles.

Now, put those cigaweeds down.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:44   Link #860
tsunade666
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The story is kinda slow.... but nonetheless it keeps me entertain to wait for the next one specially with the bomb news like confession. Eru would surely bring more trouble and energy draining life to Oreki.
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