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Old 2013-09-03, 08:47   Link #561
Cosmic Eagle
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300mm are large Katyushas....which don't rule out rebel use. Unless they start finding SS-21 parts there then you would have something
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Old 2013-09-03, 17:16   Link #562
Xellos-_^
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i keep thinking both Russia, US and Syria miss opportunity here. They could have just blame the chemical attack on the Islamist extremist, broker a peace deal between Assad and the moderate faction of the rebels. It would be a win for everybody but the extremist.

Assad stays in power (diminish) but still in power
US doesn't have to get involve
Russia don't have to worry about Islamic Extremist on their front door.
the moderate get some reform and a chance to get the country back to normal

Every could then gang up on the Islamic Extremist.
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Old 2013-09-03, 17:50   Link #563
Haak
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I don't think the line between the moderates and the extremists is distinct enough for that, though. And I doubt the moderates would honestly want to make any deals with the regime at this point. I imagine a lot of them have already lost family members or friends because of the regime so there's definitely going to be splintering especially when the higher ups in FSA clearly don't have as much control over their members as they need to. This article somewhat illustrates this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533
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Old 2013-09-04, 17:39   Link #564
AnimeFan188
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Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion:

"Secretary of State John Kerry said at Wednesday’s hearing that Arab counties have
offered to pay for the entirety of unseating President Bashar al-Assad if the United
States took the lead militarily.

“With respect to Arab countries offering to bear costs and to assess, the answer is
profoundly yes,” Kerry said. “They have. That offer is on the table.”

Asked by Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) about how much those countries would
contribute, Kerry said they have offered to pay for all of a full invasion."

See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e-2467ba30e5e3
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Old 2013-09-04, 17:50   Link #565
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I wonder what that is considered, when the United States is asked to invade someone else and being paid for it?
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Old 2013-09-04, 18:32   Link #566
Fireminer
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Oh, almost forgot this fact: The U.S Army used to put fire and toxic in front of VC's tunnels in Cu Chi. Mind you, not only resistance were in there, but also refugees. And the death toll could take to a whole village!

Human Rights and Freedom of the U.S are just bluff.
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Old 2013-09-04, 18:57   Link #567
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Some insight into Iranian perspective on Syrian matter.
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Old 2013-09-04, 18:57   Link #568
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I wonder what that is considered, when the United States is asked to invade someone else and being paid for it?
I was thinking exactly the same thing...
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Old 2013-09-04, 19:03   Link #569
Ithekro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Oh, almost forgot this fact: The U.S Army used to put fire and toxic in front of VC's tunnels in Cu Chi. Mind you, not only resistance were in there, but also refugees. And the death toll could take to a whole village!

Human Rights and Freedom of the U.S are just bluff.

Those times are the ones were a military can no longer deturming who the enemy is and just attacks know locations without stopping to ask "are you the enemy?"

In the days were "the enemy" doesn't wear a military uniform, made it difficult to say who was a VC and who was a refugee, and when the shooting started, there wasn't time anymore to ask. The rules of engagement were designed for conventional warfare, not for what happened in the jungles, canals, and rice patties of Vietnam. The US military learned from that a little and use what they learned in Iraq and Afganistan.

Fighting the NVA was only slightly easier when they were in uniform.

Granada is about the last place to be thankful for the US military invading.
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Old 2013-09-04, 19:15   Link #570
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
“With respect to Arab countries offering to bear costs and to assess, the answer is
profoundly yes,” Kerry said. “They have. That offer is on the table.”
There's something messed up about this. They're willing to cover the costs for the invasion and are asking us to do it... but they won't do it themselves? Why not?

My guess is that their funding would be overlooked by people who would be focusing on America's actions. That would focus negative sentiment on America instead of the other Arab countries. Just what we needed, right? Maybe the government figures that our reputation in the Muslim world is so poor that we have nothing to lose. I wish we'd sit this one out, but it looks like the government is revving to go. Ridiculous.
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Old 2013-09-04, 19:16   Link #571
TooPurePureBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I wonder what that is considered, when the United States is asked to invade someone else and being paid for it?
My jaw hit the fucking floor.

Are we fucking mercenaries now?

Hold on to your hats folks. I'm calling it now. This is going to be one weird ass century.
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Old 2013-09-04, 20:23   Link #572
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Oh, almost forgot this fact: The U.S Army used to put fire and toxic in front of VC's tunnels in Cu Chi. Mind you, not only resistance were in there, but also refugees. And the death toll could take to a whole village!

Human Rights and Freedom of the U.S are just bluff.
Anti-insurgency requires harsh measures. Human rights has no place in it, really.
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Old 2013-09-04, 20:29   Link #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Anti-insurgency requires harsh measures. Human rights has no place in it, really.
To make a better world, sacrifices must be made....
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Old 2013-09-04, 21:33   Link #574
Fireminer
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I'm not that kind of "The End justife the Means", or Vice Versa. Quote Lenin: "Every events is just a part of a chain" - the way you do it will lead to the fruit that you received.

Beside, like Confusian has said that if the people don't believe you, you can't hold power!
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Old 2013-09-04, 22:01   Link #575
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Anti-insurgency requires harsh measures. Human rights has no place in it, really.
When you've ended up entangled in Anti-insurgency measure you have pretty much failed the game, really.
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Old 2013-09-04, 22:03   Link #576
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
When you've ended up entangled in Anti-insurgency measure you have pretty much failed the game, really.
Precisely the problem.
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Old 2013-09-05, 02:43   Link #577
Haak
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Well actually, I'd say human rights are essential to counterinsurgency, which is exactly why it's going to be a losing game when you're actually in it for cynical reasons.
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Old 2013-09-05, 09:00   Link #578
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well actually, I'd say human rights are essential to counterinsurgency, which is exactly why it's going to be a losing game when you're actually in it for cynical reasons.
By the time you reach counterinsurgency level, it means the game is fucked up so badly no way in hell the local is going to forgave you unless you get out, or go Gengis Khan.

Building a bridge or hospital isn't going to mollify those who lost kins to your war.

Wait, am I agreeing with sumeragi? o_O
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Old 2013-09-05, 09:27   Link #579
rantaid
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just please no more war. i hate to see the drop in market and exchange rates. not my right to say this, but to fight in war is costly.
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Old 2013-09-05, 09:37   Link #580
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
By the time you reach counterinsurgency level, it means the game is fucked up so badly no way in hell the local is going to forgave you unless you get out, or go Gengis Khan.

Building a bridge or hospital isn't going to mollify those who lost kins to your war.

Wait, am I agreeing with sumeragi? o_O
Well if there's already an insurgency, then yeah you've obviously fucked up in some extraordinary way and don't deserve to be there.

But time has a way of mollifying anger itself, so cutting off support from the counterinsurgency and it will eventually die on it's own, especially if you're clearly more capable of producing better governance than the insurgency. But that's only if you're in it for the long haul and don't keep screwing up along the way. And if you're doing it right, then those who have lost kin to your war won't be as much compared to those that prefer you over those that have lost kin to your war.

But still, I just don't think going out Genghis Khan should really be an option in the 21st century any more.
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