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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 87 51.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 53 31.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 8.24%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 4.12%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.76%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 1.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.59%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.18%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-11, 01:30   Link #121
Zefris
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9/10 for me. The closeup face shots of Iri, Saber, and Gil looked way different (too wide?) from the previous eps and was too distracting throughout the ep for me. I couldn't stop wondering, what happened to them everytime I saw it? >.< Otherwise, everything else was great.
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Old 2011-12-11, 01:33   Link #122
rpgman1
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Originally Posted by Zefris View Post
9/10 for me. The closeup face shots of Iri, Saber, and Gil looked way different (too wide?) from the previous eps and was too distracting throughout the ep for me. I couldn't stop wondering, what happened to them everytime I saw it? >.< Otherwise, everything else was great.
Budget problems with animation, as most of it went into the previous episode. Seems that many current series suffer from budget problems. Hoping the Blu-ray version will add what's missing from this episode.
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Old 2011-12-11, 01:36   Link #123
whatbob1
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Originally Posted by d' airscapez View Post
In the Noble Phantasm the character with the long black hair looks like an older version of Waver .
Spoiler for LN:
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Old 2011-12-11, 01:41   Link #124
fertygo
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The charas design isn't off model, more likely they using another set of animation director n animator for this eps. This is isn't first time they using this palette for char design (eps 4, 6, and 9 is most noticeably) That was not off model if that is not the first time n intentional, whether you like it or not its up to you, but its wasn't an error.

Anime produced that way, you all must realize this with your experiences watching anime(with other staff working eps n other set of staff working others), n because the eps pretty much only consist chatting this eps, they decide to go with less detailed palette.

Btw best chat ever.
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Old 2011-12-11, 01:51   Link #125
Vena
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Was going to say something... but the episode was just too much fun for me to complain.
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Old 2011-12-11, 02:13   Link #126
whatbob1
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Guess we'll just have to see what they add in the Blu-ray or whatever.

Here's hoping they add from the sound drama of Gilgamesh laughing his ass off non stop when Saber told them her ideals. And continues to laugh in the background the whole time, it's pretty hilarious.

youtube link of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DLlL...utu.be&t=1m30s
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Old 2011-12-11, 02:22   Link #127
mazinken
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This show is really good I am really blown away by it is quality I was preparing my self to be disappointed since adapting the light novel is no easy task even the removed parts did not hinder my enjoyment and this is really a rare case since I am very hard to please when it comes to animation.
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Old 2011-12-11, 02:44   Link #128
Kagayaki
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Exactly. That was one of the many cut that I hated most. Gilgamesh raep owning Saber part.
Are you talking about the line when he makes fun of Saber right before the Assassins attack? That's the one that was missing that I felt deserved to be in there the most, although they did keep another part where he laughs at her, so the idea got across in some form, albeit not as nicely.

IIRC, Endless Twilight hasn't read the novels, so he thought that Gilgamesh actually gave a definition of kingship (which would have been interesting to hear), although that's not in this scene in the novel either. The absence of such a speech — the fact that he doesn't feel the need to debate ideologies and just ridicules Saber — is a form of character development as well.
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Old 2011-12-11, 04:31   Link #129
Grey
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Figures that Rider doesn't feel any modern responsibility to his people. Saber's a for-the-people hero while Rider's a classic "all for me!" ruler.

The discussion was very nice. Like Lancer's story it gave some nice insight and connection to the characters.

Gil actually chilling out with all of them but staying mostly quiet was interesting and pretty cool.
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Old 2011-12-11, 04:33   Link #130
Morisato
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I love how Sabre always get destroyed about how dumb her wish is. Get back in the kitchen!

Also lol'd @ Rider's last line to Sabre and totally dismissing her voice totally.

Rider stole the show in both talk and action this episode.

I liked Gil's manner, he's still super arrogant, but he's having a lot of fun just sitting and drinking with them. I think he's just lonely, and he covers it up with his arrogance and stuff. He just wants friends.

Assassin bunch, what a complete waste..even wtih crippled thumb, I think Sabre could have taken all 98 on. Only reason she had trouble with casters minions was because they were endless. If there was a definite number, it would have been over quickly.
Lol yea. Saber is just a clueless little girl that should never have been given the position of king. She needs to learn her place and let the real kings do the talking.

It's no wonder Kiritsugu doesn't even respond to her. She makes stupid requests that aren't even worthy of his time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
Figures that Rider doesn't feel any modern responsibility to his people. Saber's a for-the-people hero while Rider's a classic "all for me!" ruler.

The discussion was very nice. Like Lancer's story it gave some nice insight and connection to the characters.

Gil actually chilling out with all of them but staying mostly quiet was interesting and pretty cool.
Clearly Rider's not a "all for me!" ruler. If he really was such a selfish tyrant, he wouldn't console Waver for his failures all the time and his men wouldn't follow him to the after life. Rider is a leader (with charisma). Saber is a martyr. I can see why Caster mistakes Saber for Joan of Arc. They're really no different.

Rider does consider his people but what would reviving his empire do? What's done is done. Saber wants to mess with (several hundred years of) history.
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Old 2011-12-11, 04:59   Link #131
Grey
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Originally Posted by Morisato View Post
Clearly Rider's not a "all for me!" ruler. If he really was such a selfish tyrant, he wouldn't console Waver for his failures all the time and his men wouldn't follow him to the after life. Rider is a leader (with charisma). Saber is a martyr. I can see why Caster mistakes Saber for Joan of Arc. They're really no different.

Rider does consider his people but what would reviving his empire do? What's done is done. Saber wants to mess with (several hundred years of) history.
No, Rider specifically says that the King doesn't sacrifice himself for his people, but the people sacrifice themselves for the King. What consideration for his people is that? What is that but selfish tyranny? It's almost the exact opposite of modern responsible governance and accountability to the people.

I think you're confusing his comradeship with his fellow warriors with how he sees Kingship and responsibility to the average person.
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Old 2011-12-11, 05:09   Link #132
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Problem - Rin's episode was original anime scenario. A lot of things are changed. I can't say since it would be spoiler to non-novel readers, but it was not supposed to end happily like that. Because I know Rin's episode, I know it could've been shorten a lot.

As I stated earlier, there was definite possibility of shortening Rin's part to max the input for this episode.
Rin was 60-70% made of expanded material which match everything that was accounted for her in this period and in the future. You could potentially shorten Rin's episode into 5 minutes, and the momentum wouldn't be that of a problem if the tone was different in the end.
However, there is a critical part you are omitting: again, the terrible issue they were confronted for this episode is that splitting the feast and Ionian Hetairoi is absolutely no good:
-whether it could potentially build a "cliffhanger" is nothing satisfying, because the very next episode would have a disjointed pace and the tension would drop midway.
-breaking the momentum with Rider's kingship speech would be an even more akin to fatal mistake than simple cuts left and right.

This is also the reason why the original episode is longer than this, and why they actually already animated them, as proved by last week preview lines from Tokiomi and Gilgamesh.
Quote:
About the army, you can easily see many direction that fakes the scale of details and limited sakuga. For instance, they show a lot of over-the-head shoots when showing the army. When this has always been the case of Fate/Zero from the start, this episode clearly had collapse in art work in many aspect.
The purpose was to show the overwhelming army, but also the fact they are no grunts. Details were really fair enough for such purpose, be it the armor or the "peculiar heroes", those who aren't not wearing Macedoniam armaments.
I would however agree they kind of toned it down with the lack of horses, as they should have been heavy cavalry.
Quote:
While I'm tempting to agree with you in this part, but I just can't forgive shortening it. It was also one of the most important/mind-blowing scene of Fate/Zero, and ufotable suddenly collapses and create unlimited sakuga-hokai works and unlimited editing storm. Really, it might be me just being too biased but I can believe ufotable made greatest amount of cut and greatest amount of sakuga errors in THIS particular episode where it should've been 'godly'.
Ionian Hetairoi is probably one of the most mindblowing scene, but it isn't really supposed to be "that" magnificient in term of visual display: the scene was actually much more vivid with how Rider was a "true king" whilst his army who pledged fealty once in their life is still serving him even in death. You could potentially have more in close fighting sakuga display, but the mood itself is what makes the scene great, which was fulfilled, imho.
Quote:
Exactly. That was one of the many cut that I hated most. Gilgamesh raep owning Saber part.
One single critical line from gilgamesh didn't make it, and I agree it could impend a bit his intent regarding Saber. However, his attitude was depicted quite nicely here: however taciturn he was during the feast, his timed reactions and expressions were enough to give subtle point with his position regarding both Rider and Saber (especially when Rider threw his last question before unleashing his reality marble).
Rather then telling, they decided to "show" it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
No, Rider specifically says that the King doesn't sacrifice himself for his people, but the people sacrifice themselves for the King. What consideration for his people is that? What is that but selfish tyranny? It's almost the exact opposite of modern responsible governance and accountability to the people.

I think you're confusing his comradeship with his fellow warriors with how he sees Kingship and responsibility to the average person.
Such tyrrany was considered as "necessary". Where democracy is all and dandy in our era, such thing would hardly work in that period where surviving for the fittest was the main creed.
Being the embodiement of desire and leadership is what makes a king in his prime, not leaving power being spread and wasted. Of course, such "selfishness" would be detrimental to a certain degree, but it is a necessary sacrifice for the nation by itself. Without a leader worth of protecting, a nation wouldn't stand on its own.

By definition, a King rules a country and de facto, his subjects.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-12-11 at 05:21.
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Old 2011-12-11, 05:28   Link #133
Velsy
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Awesome episode (makes me wonder why they wasted an episode last week)

I've always disliked Sabers motives for the grail war. I mentioned it in the episode 2 thread, but why is Saber trying to save her Brittian, when it has survived til this present day. Going back and changing the future could end up disasterous. If any of you have seen Pandora Hearts, and then see what Break did, you will understand what I mean. I've always thought playing with the past is a dangerous thing with bad consequences. Say she does win the Grail, changes the past. Who knows what England would be today? Maybe a French Vassel?.

Think you get the point. So I stand on Riders side on things. But of what he said I agree around 80 % (estimating here). But overall he raised some good points. The main point Rider points out. Saber may of fought to protect her country or people, but she was always acting alone and never once did she truely lead them/it (is what I made of it).

The Assassins showing up hoping for an easy ambush, turned out to be completely disasterous. They never inticipated Rider to counter attack like that. It was awesome!

I especially loved how the commander of the Assassins just stood motionless knowing how screwed they were. Open field, Soldiers vs Assassins... They were just no match. I see people say there was more story to be told in the light novel. Which is a shame not to hear it all when they wasted an episode on Rin.

To conlued, that was a really nice ending to the episode. Am I safe to say that now... Assassin is *offically* defeated.

The *offical* battles so far
Assassin vs Archer -- winner: Archer (obviously not complelely legit and assassins still exsisted)
Lancer vs Saber -- *Pending* thus the winner fights Rider?
Assassin vs Rider --- winner: Rider (Assassin completely defeated)

Battle I want to see next
Caster vs Berserker - (winner to fight Archer)

Last edited by Velsy; 2011-12-11 at 05:45.
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Old 2011-12-11, 05:54   Link #134
Kanon
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Rider's noble phantasms was orgasmic. I figured he was powerful, but I did not expect anything on this level. I'm looking forward to his inevitable fight with Archer. Those two are clearly in a league of their own in this war, only Saber with avalon could possibly be a match for them.

I loved the three King's dialogue. Well, more like two. Rider made a very compelling argument. I would have liked to hear more of Gil's thoughts on the matter, but him laughing his ass off when Saber stated her wish was all that was needed.
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Old 2011-12-11, 06:53   Link #135
xKeir
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So .. Iskandar managed to change my views and thoughts of what a true King is all about.

I still standby Arturia's way of managing her Kingdom. But damn Iskandar taught me to look things from a different perspective! I can't say i disagree with his opinion cuz he did raise good points.

From the moment he activated his Reality Marble till the end was the greatest scene of the season so far. It really , or shud i say surpass my expectations of how they'd make out the scene! Perfect!
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:14   Link #136
Grey
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Such tyrrany was considered as "necessary". Where democracy is all and dandy in our era, such thing would hardly work in that period where surviving for the fittest was the main creed.
Being the embodiement of desire and leadership is what makes a king in his prime, not leaving power being spread and wasted. Of course, such "selfishness" would be detrimental to a certain degree, but it is a necessary sacrifice for the nation by itself. Without a leader worth of protecting, a nation wouldn't stand on its own.
So Athenian democracy didn't work?

It's not that it couldn't work. I'd say there was no incentive for people in power to make it work. Something like "it's necessary for the nation" is as legit as the classic "divine right of kings."

Not that I ever meant some fancy criticism of classic fictionalized heroes by modern standards. I'm just calling a spade a spade. The older stories of heroes and fantasy aren't filled with modern sentiments. And Rider just happens to be one of those heroes.
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:30   Link #137
Edict
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Iskander advanced a non-sequitur of the form to rule effectively one must be the most amoral and self-serving. Why this example naturally supersedes a just rule of equivalent power and prowess in battle and politics is not given explanation. This distinction between power and the will that directs the same for a kingdom's stability and direction is not accounted for in Iskander's rationale.

moreover, for the benefit of clarity, the supposed contrast to Saber's position was presented with certain misrepresentation to the histories involved. Saber had both the power and ideals to serve Camelot, it was betrayal which (as I understand) led to Camelot's downfall. Thus for serving as a point of contrast, whilst neither ideology can safeguard the particular challenge of betrayal, their influence on the likelihood of same becoming a source of disruption to both rulership and its dominion underscores what makes for tenable differences between the ideologies.
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:35   Link #138
Grey
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Well yeah. Historical realism isn't really Fate's thing. It grabs little bits of history and legend where it likes. Then it spins them together into its own cool story and throws in some nice clashes of personalities.
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:36   Link #139
ookamigirl
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Gilgamesh showing off with his wine ^^
Rider sure likes to drink LOL
Those three discussing their pasts were pretty serious about it.
Assassin sure messed up their little party.
Rider really is a special one, just amazing.
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:42   Link #140
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http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-5842.html

Confirmed.
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