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Old 2013-02-15, 20:34   Link #361
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
for someone who has the most ultimate power Sasami sure is useless.
When having the slightest desire can make other gods who aren't even a fraction as powerful as you turn the world into chocolate for you, you might hesitate to use your own powers too. Quite frankly I think Amaterasu's abilities are too powerful for Sasami to safely use. She could very easily destroy the world, completely unintentionally. And if I understood correctly and Susanoo has actually lent his powers to Sasami's mother, than a god-battle between the two of them would be devastating. When talking about beings who can reshape reality on a whim, collateral damage takes on a whole new meaning.
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Old 2013-02-15, 20:58   Link #362
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Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
for someone who has the most ultimate power Sasami sure is useless.
I think if Sasami were to use her powers conciously it'd be like making a deal with a devil-like being. You need to be extremely specific & clear to make sure you don't get hit with some BS ironic punishment that ends up making perfect sense( think: I wish the world was on fire -> You proceed to burn seconds after you wish that) or "you didn't say I couldn't take a hundred thousand souls to grant your wish"-type thing. I mean, say she wished "blow her away"(referring to Sasami's mother) the gods(particularly the evil/chaotic evil/neutral evil ones or plain innocent, dumb and dangerously powerful ones) would think..by "her" who exactly do you mean? and proceed to exact vengeance on every "her" in the world that has wronged Sasami in the past in any way.(By "hers" I mean females, just to be clear)

Last edited by Libros; 2013-02-15 at 21:09.
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Old 2013-02-15, 22:11   Link #363
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I wonder what price sasami mom have to pay to get that power
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Old 2013-02-16, 09:48   Link #364
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Old 2013-02-16, 16:15   Link #365
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Old 2013-02-16, 22:15   Link #366
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Wow Sasami's mom is awesome use her powers to cheat the crane machine
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Old 2013-02-17, 04:30   Link #367
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
I wonder what price sasami mom have to pay to get that power
None. She is dead, and dead people obey the king of the underworld. Her speech about "gods serve humans" is just a pack of lies, as she is under the order of the God of Storms to defeat his sister the sun goddess. She is just an agent of a god, welding his sword, and will have to return to serve him in the underworld.
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Old 2013-02-17, 05:20   Link #368
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I hope some hug in the end of the arc.
Gotta love see the sister protecting Sasami
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Old 2013-02-17, 05:42   Link #369
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
None. She is dead, and dead people obey the king of the underworld. Her speech about "gods serve humans" is just a pack of lies, as she is under the order of the God of Storms to defeat his sister the sun goddess. She is just an agent of a god, welding his sword, and will have to return to serve him in the underworld.
Pretty sure that what i meant
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Old 2013-02-17, 05:48   Link #370
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I think Shaft heard my wish and removed that brother out of the pictures....

Ep 6 is fairly good, but bloody cliff-hanger. Hope the three sisters gonna be OK, cause Tama aside, Kagami and Tsurugi both are in a real pinch here
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Old 2013-02-17, 06:50   Link #371
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
Pretty sure that what i meant
It's not really a price to pay because she was always serving him to begin with. She was always under his rule, she didn't lose anything.

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I think Shaft heard my wish and removed that brother out of the pictures....
Even though he doesn't have powers, narratively he is still important. His role in the story is to keep Sasami grounded in thinking about the mortals once in a while. It would be too easy to pretend mortals don't exist and that they don't matter.
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Old 2013-02-17, 10:58   Link #372
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's not really a price to pay because she was always serving him to begin with. She was always under his rule, she didn't lose anything.


Even though he doesn't have powers, narratively he is still important. His role in the story is to keep Sasami grounded in thinking about the mortals once in a while. It would be too easy to pretend mortals don't exist and that they don't matter.
As long as he does not hold more than 2 lines each episode, i'm happy
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Old 2013-02-17, 11:38   Link #373
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Ep 6 is fairly good, but bloody cliff-hanger. Hope the three sisters gonna be OK, cause Tama aside, Kagami and Tsurugi both are in a real pinch here
They should both be rescuable, assuming anyone can get to the land of the dead to get them out. Tsurugi is too smart to not know the rules about Yomi, so I sincerely doubt Susanoo will be able to trick her into eating the food. And Kagami doesn't eat, so she can't be trapped there no matter what. Eating the food of Yomi has always been protrayed as the point of no return, so I'm confident both of our lost Yagami sisters can be recovered... if anyone can get there to recover them. That's not a task we can leave to Tama, but that means Sasami is going to have to find a way out of her mess, figure out how to get to the land of the dead, find the two of them, and find her way out again.
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Old 2013-02-17, 18:14   Link #374
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
They should both be rescuable, assuming anyone can get to the land of the dead to get them out. Tsurugi is too smart to not know the rules about Yomi, so I sincerely doubt Susanoo will be able to trick her into eating the food. And Kagami doesn't eat, so she can't be trapped there no matter what. Eating the food of Yomi has always been protrayed as the point of no return, so I'm confident both of our lost Yagami sisters can be recovered... if anyone can get there to recover them. That's not a task we can leave to Tama, but that means Sasami is going to have to find a way out of her mess, figure out how to get to the land of the dead, find the two of them, and find her way out again.
Maybe that's why Tama was ended up unharmed. Because she would have eaten anything coming her way, have she was the one who was sent down....
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Old 2013-02-18, 07:39   Link #375
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Tsurugi can probably get herself out of Yomi without aid. I don't see her needing rescuing; she is merely being delayed so that Sasami would have to fight her own battles next episode.

And this is when I get on a soapbox and talk about a common moral argument; is "self sacrifice" noble?"

Well, that sounded simple enough. Parents sacrifice for their children, loved ones in general would do what they feel they need to aid those they care about. And even to the extremes, people dedicate their whole lives to serve a town, a state, a country.

Are they noble? Of course.

But there is a line one should not cross. Self sacrifice is only noble if it is voluntary. It doesn't matter if it is for the greater good; as soon as someone is coerced or guilt-tripped into sacrificing themselves, it is no longer noble.

No one has any right to force Sasami to do what she does not want to do. Not for saving Japan, and not for saving the human race. There is nothing noble about telling someone else to screw themselves.

Sasami's mum is only forcing Sasami to follow her footsteps because she NEEDED to justify the suffering she went through herself. She isn't doing it for the benefit of Japan, or anyone else. She isn't doing it to keep humans above gods. It's all just excuses.

The shrine NEVER had the right to the power of the sun goddess to begin with. Indeed, Sasami is actually the first person Tsurugi directly give permission to contain her powers since the birth of the nation of Japan. Sasami is a legitimate, approved vessel of Amaterasu.

What she isn't, is being a pawn for her family to manipulate. She is no longer enslaved. And her mum can't handle that.
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Old 2013-02-18, 12:22   Link #376
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Tsurugi can probably get herself out of Yomi without aid. I don't see her needing rescuing; she is merely being delayed so that Sasami would have to fight her own battles next episode.
Normally I might agree with you, but I believe this situation was specifically designed by Susanoo to end up with her trapped in Yomi. I do not doubt he has prepared his trap well enough to hold her, especially since she's mostly powerless at the moment. Besides, it always seems that it is easier for someone from outside to enter the land of the dead seeking to rescue someone than it is for someone inside the land of the dead to break out.

As for the rest of your post, I don't inherently disagree with what you're saying, but there is another side to what Sasami's mother is arguing. Think of the transformations, (aberrations, whatever translation you use wants to call them) that we've already seen over the course of the series. These things have happened because of Sasami's uncontrolled desires, thoughts, and feelings, sometimes even purely subconscious ones. It is entirely normal for a human to have numerous different thoughts and feelings and wants running through their minds at any particular point. But because of that, the countless gods surrounding Sasami have behaved in wild and unpredictable manners depending on her moods, and she has been unable to safely use Amaterasu's power.

The point of the cult is not simply "we want to keep the ultimate power under our control" but also that it needs to be kept under control, period. The drugs given to the women to remove their desires keep their minds focused: focused in a way Sasami's has not been, and we've seen what has happened as a result of Sasami's mind not being focused. A mind that has no extraneous desires, a mind that can truly be focused on one thing, actually could wield Amaterasu's power without it or the surrounding gods going out of control. By removing herself from the shrine and that environment, Sasami has removed herself from that level of control, and things have become... unpredictable as a result.

That is the flip side of the cult and Sasami's mother's motivations, and why their attempts isolate Sasami like this should not simply be dismissed out of hand. There is an argument with some strength behind it. Now, I'm not going to say that is Sasami's mother's only reason, or that you are wrong in your judgement about what one of her other reasons might be, or even that the reason I stated is enough to justify taking away Sasami's free will (because I don't think it is). I'm just trying to show that this isn't purely one-sided selfish bitterness on the part of Sasami's mother.
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Old 2013-02-18, 17:38   Link #377
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No one has any right to force Sasami to do what she does not want to do. Not for saving Japan, and not for saving the human race. There is nothing noble about telling someone else to screw themselves.
That... depends on the situation...

Now, if the anime had it as Everyone in the world is infected by an alteration and will die, but Sasami's the only one with the power to save them.

Should we... let everyone die because Sasami doesn't want to do anything?
Or should we... gather up and first attempt to convince Sasami to save everyone, and if fail force her to, else it'll be the end of human race?

Which would you choose? LOL...
(In RL aspect, think of an incurable virus yet has spread across the entire globe infecting everyone, but there's only 1 person in the entire world with a cure, so... should that person save the world or not because he doesn't want to?)

"With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" *giggles*
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Old 2013-02-19, 05:40   Link #378
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Originally Posted by chaos_animagic View Post
That... depends on the situation...

Now, if the anime had it as Everyone in the world is infected by an alteration and will die, but Sasami's the only one with the power to save them.

Should we... let everyone die because Sasami doesn't want to do anything?
Or should we... gather up and first attempt to convince Sasami to save everyone, and if fail force her to, else it'll be the end of human race?

Which would you choose? LOL...
(In RL aspect, think of an incurable virus yet has spread across the entire globe infecting everyone, but there's only 1 person in the entire world with a cure, so... should that person save the world or not because he doesn't want to?)

"With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" *giggles*
Well why wouldn't she? Maybe humans deserved it?

You reminded me of that recent horror film where 5 young people were sacrificed periodically to keep a demon from destroy the world. Two people ended up surviving the attempt to kill them and start having a chat. At that point, the end of the world can still be prevented if the male surviver dies. But the female survivor doesn't care anymore after being hunted by humans trying to murder her.

"If the human race needs to do this to survive, then what's the point of surviving? It's time to give someone else a chance."
They had a smoke, watching the giant fist rising from the Earth and obliterated the building they are in.

If there is a good reason for the human race to die, so be it. Someone has to draw a line in the sand.

Quote:
The point of the cult is not simply "we want to keep the ultimate power under our control" but also that it needs to be kept under control, period.
That's a logical fallacy. The Ultimate Power is NOT theirs to control, never were. The Yagami sisters are the ones watching over Sasami now and they can reverse any accidental changes. Tsurugi can take the power back at any time if needed be. The ONLY reason to keep Sasami in the shrine is selfish reasons of family power, there is no excuse whatsoever.

Sasami's mum is lying. Humans are not using the power responsibily, but for personally gain. They never had the right to the power to begin with. She is doing this for the glory of her clan and not for society. She is also a pawn for the God of Storms and is in no way representing humanity. Everything she said was an outright lie. In fact, I now consider her to be as equally despicable as Sasami's dad.
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Old 2013-02-19, 05:50   Link #379
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*reads all that debate*

You know what, I'll just claim Kagami for myself, give her a few special upgrades (Maybe some Symphogear type stuff), then call her my own.

Please carry on. Thank you.

*flies off on G-Epyon Kagami*
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Old 2013-02-19, 06:57   Link #380
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
*reads all that debate*

You know what, I'll just claim Kagami for myself, give her a few special upgrades (Maybe some Symphogear type stuff), then call her my own.

Please carry on. Thank you.

*flies off on G-Epyon Kagami*
Sasami's family is named for Tsukiyomi, the "Moon". I don't think you were going for a joke there, along those lines, but I did laugh pretty hard.

Ah, Symphogear never lets us down.
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