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Old 2012-04-26, 00:37   Link #281
Panzerklein
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Remember the Oschestra is madness and fight against many police forces before, they will prepare AP rounds to against ballistic shield, with riot shield, just normal 7.62x39 can penetrate it. And Valmet's shield is hit many time by his AP rounds before it is penetrated, not just first shot. No ballistic shield, even the level IV ones is design to prevent many AP rifle rounds . And maybe the ballisitc shield of those polices are below level III (and also is weaken by 40mm HE), because usually only SWAT can be equiped level III and above ones.
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Old 2012-04-26, 01:31   Link #282
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Well I dunno about you guys... It's not like I'm just looking for things to hate on but the terrible action in this episode just stands out really. I hope that future action scenes don't turn out like this really cause it's gonna be a major turn off for me since good action scenes are one of my expectations from this show.
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Old 2012-04-26, 03:48   Link #283
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Must say the episode definitely was ruined by that horrible action sequence >_<
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Old 2012-04-26, 04:58   Link #284
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Must say the episode definitely was ruined by that horrible action sequence >_<
I agree. I don't expect realistic gunfights from this kind of show but that moment when Jonah ran out in the open was facepalm-inducing.
Especially since I don't see much intelligent dialog or well-developed characters so far. At least give me some good action!
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Old 2012-04-26, 12:44   Link #285
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Everyone wants something different from a series of course, so if the lack of realism bothers you that's perfectly legitimate. But it seems to me that it's more a problem of expectations than execution. If you walk into a Fellini or even Tarantino film looking for realistic events you're asking for disappointment, and it's the same with Jormungand. That's not really the point.
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Old 2012-04-26, 13:16   Link #286
MartianMage
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Actually the problem is the execution. There's no reason at all to make the action sequence suffer just to show Jonah is suicidal.

And TBH it's not like I'm expecting realistic action to enjoy this. Even if I tell myself "ok action in this anime will be unrealistic" I'd still have problems how they executed it. There are a lot of animes out there that showcase unrealistic gunfights but are still very enjoyable. This one falls under unrealistic and simply bad execution.
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-04-26, 14:19   Link #287
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That's how I also viewed Jonah's charging attempt at Shishio. It may have been a combat tactic that had been very favorable to him in the past.
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Old 2012-04-26, 17:12   Link #288
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Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
That's how I also viewed Jonah's charging attempt at Shishio. It may have been a combat tactic that had been very favorable to him in the past.
Against untrained soldiers its quite effective. Against anyone with training, it's a death sentence. Something Lehm was pointing out.

I think they needed the Plaza to be bigger, that would have made the jarring bit of the action not cause as much consternation as it has.

Still, as a big Black Lagoon fan, I can't say it bothered me much, lol.
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Old 2012-04-26, 17:55   Link #289
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Old 2012-04-27, 00:13   Link #290
Yu Ominae
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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Against untrained soldiers its quite effective. Against anyone with training, it's a death sentence. Something Lehm was pointing out.

I think they needed the Plaza to be bigger, that would have made the jarring bit of the action not cause as much consternation as it has.

Still, as a big Black Lagoon fan, I can't say it bothered me much, lol.
Ah but it's not like child soldiers faced armed commandos in special forces operations where they are killed.

Unless I'm wrong and there has been a case like that.
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Old 2012-04-28, 11:25   Link #291
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"the car is standing!" yeah bonus points for that^^

so many bullets were fired but only 2 hits, and they are not vital
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Old 2012-04-28, 16:31   Link #292
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
"the car is standing!" yeah bonus points for that^^

so many bullets were fired but only 2 hits, and they are not vital
It's just cartoon physics
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Old 2012-04-28, 16:31   Link #293
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Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
That's how I also viewed Jonah's charging attempt at Shishio. It may have been a combat tactic that had been very favorable to him in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Against untrained soldiers its quite effective. Against anyone with training, it's a death sentence. Something Lehm was pointing out.

I think they needed the Plaza to be bigger, that would have made the jarring bit of the action not cause as much consternation as it has.

Still, as a big Black Lagoon fan, I can't say it bothered me much, lol.
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Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
Ah but it's not like child soldiers faced armed commandos in special forces operations where they are killed.

Unless I'm wrong and there has been a case like that.
Yeah, that pretty much seemed to be exactly the point. Jonah was doing something that, as a skilled fighter facing off against half-trained schmucks, had worked in the past: charge the enemy and watch them panic, probably jamming down the trigger on their full-auto weapons and emptying the clips into the air. Against Orchestra, this would get him killed (note also that he's not hitting them while firing while charging, which makes sense: he can't aim on the run and it's basically suppressive fire to increase the target's panic). Lehm then seizes the opportunity to chew him out and point out that as one of Koko's team, he's not going to be going up against low-grade guys any more, and that he's going to have to learn to work as one of a unit and not get killed now in his new role.

tl; dr--Jonah was being stupid, show acknowledges that it was stupid, character development moment achieved
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Old 2012-04-28, 20:40   Link #294
Yu Ominae
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I've been working on this page with a few others in IMFDB. Check it out if you're curious in the types of firearms used in the show.
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Old 2012-04-28, 21:21   Link #295
Panzerklein
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Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
I agree. I don't expect realistic gunfights from this kind of show but that moment when Jonah ran out in the open was facepalm-inducing.
Especially since I don't see much intelligent dialog or well-developed characters so far. At least give me some good action!
Realistic gunfight like Roberta use musket to kill professional solders with full hi-tech gear, huh?
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Old 2012-04-29, 01:15   Link #296
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Realistic gunfight like Roberta use musket to kill professional solders with full hi-tech gear, huh?

Roberta was a domesticated T-800. She doesn't count.
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Old 2012-04-29, 05:33   Link #297
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I don't want realistic gunfights. I want Jonah killing people with bullets ricocheting off the walls and the rain of shells from machine guns to be enough for someone to slip on them, banana-style

At least the characters get some exposition in every episode, and it's easy on the eyes, so I've got no problem adding it to my main weekly list.
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Old 2012-04-29, 10:11   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
Ah but it's not like child soldiers faced armed commandos in special forces operations where they are killed.

Unless I'm wrong and there has been a case like that.
The Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia, 1993. Immortalised in the novel and movie Black Hawk Down. Among the Aidid militia fighters were child soldiers; one Delta operator recounted being engaged by what he believed was a father-son team.

IIRC, there are mentions that Lehm was ex-Delta and saw action in Somalia in 1993, which would mean that he was part of Task Force Ranger, and a contemporary of Gordon and Shugart.

This is probably why Jonah's method pisses him the fuck off, which is clearly evident. He doesn't raise his voice or anything, but by the end of the chewing out, Jonah is clearly cowed.
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Old 2012-04-29, 10:16   Link #299
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Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
Ah but it's not like child soldiers faced armed commandos in special forces operations where they are killed.

Unless I'm wrong and there has been a case like that.
Plenty...and not just Mogadishu....Middle East, Africa, any of the third world's wars...
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Old 2012-04-29, 15:08   Link #300
Yu Ominae
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
The Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia, 1993. Immortalised in the novel and movie Black Hawk Down. Among the Aidid militia fighters were child soldiers; one Delta operator recounted being engaged by what he believed was a father-son team.

IIRC, there are mentions that Lehm was ex-Delta and saw action in Somalia in 1993, which would mean that he was part of Task Force Ranger, and a contemporary of Gordon and Shugart.

This is probably why Jonah's method pisses him the fuck off, which is clearly evident. He doesn't raise his voice or anything, but by the end of the chewing out, Jonah is clearly cowed.
I remember that one. But that was just one instance. In BHD, the rangers fought against grown up men.

But yeah, I am sure that ordinary soldiers have seen child soldiers but didn't have a chance to kill them.

In the meantime, I await to see the M2 machine gun on Shisho's pick up turn the CRV into nothing.
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