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Old 2012-05-30, 23:33   Link #521
Wild Goose
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That would explain quite a lot, actually, as well as why Scarecrow is desperately trying to find evidence of illegal arms deals - he can't blackmail Koko over legitimate business deals.
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Old 2012-05-31, 00:57   Link #522
MrTerrorist
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I'm a little confused. Are EAE and the Euro Group the same company?
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Old 2012-05-31, 01:10   Link #523
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Thanks. Though I believe the "slice of arms dealing" is originally Enzo's construction. He's a reader of the Manga, so he knew what was coming with a lot of the setup. It very accurately describes the series, hehe.

This was one of those episodes that you really need a solid appreciation of the international politics to really get all that was going on. Though, even if you don't, it wasn't too hard to follow (I think). Koko wins by playing the game at even higher stakes and making EAE flinch. Plus she was working back channels and throwing her opponents off with false information. That was pretty well explained, though.

I do need to give credit to the staff for at least conveying how gutsy of moves Koko was making, though the risk would only really hit if you knew how much actual money was involved. The move on the EAE stock probably risked exposing herself to more losses than she stood to make on the deal. The exposure was probably in the range of $50 million, or more. I'd guess it's the "more" department. But that was likely in service to bigger goals in regards to EAE and the market.

Koko's stock move was, as minimum, a version of "Green mailing". Which is legal. Though it's more likely an illegal stock purchase due to her insider access to the arm deals at hand. Not that anyone could really tie her to it, but it was a very high-stakes move.
But what, exactly, does she gain by buying EAE stock?
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Old 2012-05-31, 02:25   Link #524
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
I'm a little confused. Are EAE and the Euro Group the same company?
Euro Group would be a sort of nickname for EAE. In real life, EADS is sometimes referred to as the Eurogroup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But what, exactly, does she gain by buying EAE stock?
The EAE stock price would fall after the news of the Predator purchases become public. By buying the stocks, Koko would indirectly gain control by buying up what would otherwise be cheap shares, thus becoming a major stockholder. EAE would want to prevent that, and thus would pay a premium to get back the shares.
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Old 2012-05-31, 02:28   Link #525
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But what, exactly, does she gain by buying EAE stock?
The same reason any large company buys shares...control. Or to swallow up a competitor
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Old 2012-05-31, 05:55   Link #526
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Further, when big militaries pick up a system, it's normally because its better.
But this time they did it because Koko gave a diamond to Chocolade, is that right?
If it is so easy to convince the big guys, why so much fuss about the comparatively small country B?

(Thanks for your detailed explanations by the way!)
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Old 2012-05-31, 06:46   Link #527
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But this time they did it because Koko gave a diamond to Chocolade, is that right?
If it is so easy to convince the big guys, why so much fuss about the comparatively small country B?

(Thanks for your detailed explanations by the way!)
The diamond was to pay Chocolade to deliver the final paperwork for a contract. Koko and/or HCLI had been working on the Germany & Spain contracts for a while, which is why she was involved in the Country A/B sales meetings. It was just another sale opportunity. So what she was doing was simply pushing up a contract/announcement by a few months. The Germany deal was actually already done, she just couldn't get the contracts all finished up with EAE watching. Which is why she used a CIA Operative to do the work. (They could have asked the German military/Foreign Affairs to wait on an announcement)
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Old 2012-05-31, 06:55   Link #528
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Maybe HCLI actually does have a legit face in the arms trade? Sort of like say, Lockheed Martin or Sukhoi...After all, such a big meeting of generals from the region would require political backing...And the US and Euro powers also implicitly want Koko or EAE to succeed, as long as they have a shady middle man to do their dirty work.
In the Jormungand world, HCLI is a legitimate shipping company. Along with being involved in a lot of other trades. So Koko has legitimate reasons to be there. And what she was up to this episode was all actually on the up & up. (Minus possible violation of Stock trading rules) This was one of those times that the antagonists were actually playing fast & loose with every rule available. Including massive amounts of signal intercept violations. (And sending stuff off to French Intelligence to get it decrypted)

The issue isn't getting the weapons. That's easy and roughly legal for Koko. It's the fact they have them IN ENGLAND. The UK is somewhere past anal retentive about guns. With the fact they should have had MI-5 & MI-6 following them, it's one of those few "stretching" moments to explain how they picked up the weapons and moved them while in the UK. It's doable, but with how much they should have been watched, it'd be hard to pull off.

And, yes, MI-6 is external intelligence. If you don't think they'd have assets following Koko, even in country, you'd be fooling yourself. Koko and her type are keep very close track of when they're in country. Even if, I think it was implied, that Koko has a real UK passport.
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Old 2012-05-31, 08:21   Link #529
j4c06
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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
The diamond was to pay Chocolade to deliver the final paperwork for a contract. Koko and/or HCLI had been working on the Germany & Spain contracts for a while, which is why she was involved in the Country A/B sales meetings. It was just another sale opportunity. So what she was doing was simply pushing up a contract/announcement by a few months. The Germany deal was actually already done, she just couldn't get the contracts all finished up with EAE watching. Which is why she used a CIA Operative to do the work. (They could have asked the German military/Foreign Affairs to wait on an announcement)
OK, fair enough. In that case Country B's intel sucks, if not for Koko they'd be stuck with the Euro stuff, when major players around them have something else. She did them a favor, did she?
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Old 2012-05-31, 10:09   Link #530
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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
In the Jormungand world, HCLI is a legitimate shipping company. Along with being involved in a lot of other trades. So Koko has legitimate reasons to be there. And what she was up to this episode was all actually on the up & up. (Minus possible violation of Stock trading rules) This was one of those times that the antagonists were actually playing fast & loose with every rule available. Including massive amounts of signal intercept violations. (And sending stuff off to French Intelligence to get it decrypted)

The issue isn't getting the weapons. That's easy and roughly legal for Koko. It's the fact they have them IN ENGLAND. The UK is somewhere past anal retentive about guns. With the fact they should have had MI-5 & MI-6 following them, it's one of those few "stretching" moments to explain how they picked up the weapons and moved them while in the UK. It's doable, but with how much they should have been watched, it'd be hard to pull off.

And, yes, MI-6 is external intelligence. If you don't think they'd have assets following Koko, even in country, you'd be fooling yourself. Koko and her type are keep very close track of when they're in country. Even if, I think it was implied, that Koko has a real UK passport.
No I mean, if the UK actually wanted her to do it even if not overtly they might be more lax. After all why would the UK host a meeting of generals from rival nations?
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Old 2012-05-31, 13:35   Link #531
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The EAE stock price would fall after the news of the Predator purchases become public. By buying the stocks, Koko would indirectly gain control by buying up what would otherwise be cheap shares, thus becoming a major stockholder. EAE would want to prevent that, and thus would pay a premium to get back the shares.
Sorry, but I still have several problems with that.

EADS is worth billions. That's not something you can buy out of pocket change, even if you're a "legitimate shipping company". The drones are just a small part of their business. Even if the stock falls a bit, it's not like they're really going to feel it.

Not only that, but a lot of it is owned by France and Germany, who won't sell at all for strategical reasons.

Also, if someone starts buying large quantities of the stock, it doesn't matter how many deals they miss out on, the prices will rise.
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Old 2012-05-31, 14:49   Link #532
Yu Ominae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sorry, but I still have several problems with that.

EADS is worth billions. That's not something you can buy out of pocket change, even if you're a "legitimate shipping company". The drones are just a small part of their business. Even if the stock falls a bit, it's not like they're really going to feel it.

Not only that, but a lot of it is owned by France and Germany, who won't sell at all for strategical reasons.

Also, if someone starts buying large quantities of the stock, it doesn't matter how many deals they miss out on, the prices will rise.
Well that "investment bank" bought a majority of the stocks. Koko was willin to sell them after all...
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Old 2012-05-31, 22:09   Link #533
SQA
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Well that "investment bank" bought a majority of the stocks. Koko was willin to sell them after all...
You wouldn't have to make a move on the whole company. Making a move on, say, 5% should be a enough to spoke most of the rest of the investors. If they were mostly short-calls, then their stock could easily collapse in a panic. Stock price collapses normally forces a change in management.

But, we might also be confusing the "Euro Group" (which built the UAV) with EAE (which appears to be trying to sell it). They might be separate companies and we have been thinking EAE was a stand in for EADS directly. If EAE is the middle-man, it wouldn't have taken as much money for Koko to put pressure on them, as they would be much smaller.

Probably need someone that's read the manga to clear that up.
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Old 2012-05-31, 22:44   Link #534
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Been a while since I read the manga and all, but I feel like posting in the manga thread in fear of potential spoilers that are not animated.

I think one of us mentioned that Euro Group is the nickname for EAE since I'm sure there was no other group involved. Yeah, that's how I saw it in the episode (and in the manga IIRC).
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Old 2012-05-31, 22:55   Link #535
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sorry, but I still have several problems with that.

EADS is worth billions. That's not something you can buy out of pocket change, even if you're a "legitimate shipping company". The drones are just a small part of their business. Even if the stock falls a bit, it's not like they're really going to feel it.

Not only that, but a lot of it is owned by France and Germany, who won't sell at all for strategical reasons.

Also, if someone starts buying large quantities of the stock, it doesn't matter how many deals they miss out on, the prices will rise.
Several considerations:

1. EAE =/= EADS. For all we know, EAE might be a relatively smaller company focusing on high technology such as drones and the such. It could be small enough for a bank to cause shockwaves.

2. It's mentioned near the end of the discussion about the privatization of state-owned companies. The new era brought with it the instability of formerly state companies. This is why the EAE employees were trying to take out Koko, to save their own jobs in EAE which might be downsized if someone like Koko might gain control. Basically, we're looking at the changes of the time.

3. This case is slightly different. Assuming the price of EAE stock were to fall drastically, the market will sell shares to the highest bidding buyer, with Koko doing that role. Basically, Koko would be viewed as a "savior" by buying at a price which otherwise might have gone lower.
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Old 2012-06-01, 14:14   Link #536
mechalord
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The Russian chick is the person running EAE and she has the most of shares of the company. Her company owned the biggest chunk in it. She's sort of the Chairman and CEO.
Koko was buying a controlling stake in the company from under her. The Russian chick's business partners hired mercs to find Koko but Koko's team neutralizes them. Koko agrees to sell her shares to the Russian chick in the end.

Russian chick marries billionaire. He dies. A lot of his money was in some weapons company. She sells weapons "for fun." Her company owns a lot of the EAE and she's made its leader. Koko starts buying most of company. Russian chicks goes "what the hell, I always wanted the whole thing, sell it to me."


And Koko is such a villainess. Clearly a super villains daughter.

Last edited by mechalord; 2012-06-01 at 14:25.
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Old 2012-06-01, 15:02   Link #537
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Jonah vs Lutz. A tag game ^^
Koko was played this time.
It's good she's stubborn and doesn't give up easily.
Tolokhovsky sure is eager to destroy her business.
Face to face meeting was interesting.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:12   Link #538
Acadia
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I'm late to the Jormungand fun. Caught up on all 8 episodes. It's now my favorite new anime of the spring. Period. Anytime you watch an anime with an opera singer in it and just hope someone shuts them up and someone satisfyingly does so AND EVERYONE ELSE. HAHAhha. Loved that part.

Oh and why is this only 12 episodes long? Geeez. :/
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:19   Link #539
Wild Goose
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On the bright side, supposedly a 2nd season will be showing in/around october.
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Old 2012-06-05, 15:11   Link #540
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Spoiler for Episode 9:
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