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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 21 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 27.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 21.11%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 13.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 12.22%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.11%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-19, 20:15   Link #81
GDB
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Mordred. Same as in the legend of Arthur. There isn't any sort of revelation there.
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Old 2011-12-19, 20:41   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Lumir View Post
Any weapon before and during his time can be considered a weapon he owns. That includes any weapon anyone felt was legendary/magical/powerful in anyway from children stories, to the more popular legends such as excalibur.
Uhh... he doesn't own excalibur (it's not from this world, but from the world of fairies: there's no prototype for him to own).
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Old 2011-12-19, 20:48   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theorder14 View Post
i just realized. but did any1 else notice who that person saber pierced was in the ending?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Mordred. Same as in the legend of Arthur. There isn't any sort of revelation there.
Most likely, but could also be Lancelot... I guess it will depend on whether Berserker is one or the other
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Old 2011-12-19, 20:49   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
I would like to state that Word of God confirmed serious!Gil, not holding the idiot arragoncy ball and using all of his skills to their fullest on any necessary enemy, could solo both 4-th & 5-th wars in an hour each .. although I presume this means consecutive confrontations with each servant mano a mano, not Gil vs all 6

stil .. Gil is likely the single strongest entity is FSN-verse (not Nasuverse)

That was in FSN, but we need to take into account the Servants in Extra and Apocrypha (some look like they could give Gil a fair beating: David can steal your NPs* -not steal but 'divine redesignated' so no lowering the stats or anything- and more stuff, Nero can do whatever BS she wants in her Theater unless she's getting a headache, etc).

*It seems that's all of them if he shot you, not just what Berserker grabs. God he's way too goddamn hax.
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-12-19 at 20:59.
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Old 2011-12-19, 20:58   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Most likely, but could also be Lancelot... I guess it will depend on whether Berserker is one or the other
Pretty sure Arthur never skewers Lancelot in lore, especially considered there are stories of what Lancelot does after hearing about Arthur's death. In fact, I think Mordred's death is one of the few times that Arthur is specifically shown to use a Spear instead of Excalibur/Caliburn.
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:07   Link #86
Thess
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Pretty sure Arthur never skewers Lancelot in lore, especially considered there are stories of what Lancelot does after hearing about Arthur's death. In fact, I think Mordred's death is one of the few times that Arthur is specifically shown to use a Spear instead of Excalibur/Caliburn.
People need to google The Battle of Camlann. That picture is pretty famous.

Spoiler for different portrayals:


Spoiler for Anime ending credits:


Makes me sad a recognizable piece of Arthurian mythos isn't recognized. This makes me as sad when fans didn't know who "Bluebeard" was.
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:39   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Pretty sure Arthur never skewers Lancelot in lore, especially considered there are stories of what Lancelot does after hearing about Arthur's death. In fact, I think Mordred's death is one of the few times that Arthur is specifically shown to use a Spear instead of Excalibur/Caliburn.
I won't disagree, you're right, but then again Arthur never sported a bust, however small

My point is that the plot weaving of this shows is (as it should) take precedence over folklore
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:43   Link #88
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It's actually a bit ironic but also telling of their characters that Rider and Archer, the two most self-absorbed heroes in this war, are also the two most capable at actually reading and analyzing others. Rider managed to completely bring Saber inside out, and Archer bluntly but brilliantly deconstructed Kirei.

Anyway, Archer suggesting that he needs to get a new servant now and picking up "that" chess piece is lacks subtlety, but of course again points to yet another connection to F/SN.
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:44   Link #89
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And the "plot weaving" has basically shown that the only real difference in Arthur's lore to what actually happened is basically Arthur's gender. Everything else happened as we know it.
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:51   Link #90
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And the "plot weaving" has basically shown that the only real difference in Arthur's lore to what actually happened is basically Arthur's gender. Everything else happened as we know it.
According to which of gazillion different versions of the story

Arthur aside, both in F/Z, as well as in F/SN, there were significant alterations to the myths... granted they weren't butchered like in italian and american films, and held true to the spirit and character, but either no background was given or the one given was collectively picked or manipulated to fit the VN's and LN's story... which IMHO is a good thing. This is not the story of Arthur, Alexander, or Gilgamesh, but Saber, Rider, Archer, and even more so their masters'
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Old 2011-12-19, 21:53   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
My point is that the plot weaving of this shows is (as it should) take precedence over folklore
Some degree of consolidation is needed though.

We can make certain assumptions of what did and did not happen, but Saber piercing a silver-armoured knight ( which looks quite different from another extra knight overlooking a lake ) with a spear, amidst a burning battlefield...

It's hard to not think of Camlann, which is a pivotal part of King Arthur's legend.

There are obviously less important things in Arthur's history that didn't really need to happen, and those are stuff we can make a candid assumption that Saber didn't do those in consideration of her gender...

Mordred's birth is the best example. Obviously he wasn't born of yuri-yuri love between Saber and Morgan... and I highly doubt Saber killed every newborn born on May-day to try to ensure Morded died, because she couldn't had possibly known about Mordred being born. ( biological impossibility, etc. )
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Old 2011-12-19, 22:14   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Some degree of consolidation is needed though.

We can make certain assumptions of what did and did not happen, but Saber piercing a silver-armoured knight ( which looks quite different from another extra knight overlooking a lake ) with a spear, amidst a burning battlefield...

It's hard to not think of Camlann, which is a pivotal part of King Arthur's legend.

There are obviously less important things in Arthur's history that didn't really need to happen, and those are stuff we can make a candid assumption that Saber didn't do those in consideration of her gender...
I don't disagree, using popular legends helps establish background, expectation, and introduce interesting twists without having to go through boring background exposition.

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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Mordred's birth is the best example. Obviously he wasn't born of yuri-yuri love between Saber and Morgan... and I highly doubt Saber killed every newborn born on May-day to try to ensure Morded died, because she couldn't had possibly known about Mordred being born. ( biological impossibility, etc. )
Well, given the changes, she could very well be he, and even better to satisfy the huge yaoi fanbase Guinevere could also be a dude that cheats poor Saber-chan with a seme Lancelot, before Saber-chan as a celtic/brit-roman/anglo-saxon (or whatever depending on the legend interpretation) version of Hera/Juno turns him into Heracles/Hercules/Bersrerker (most likely, I still don't count Mordred out as Berskrer)
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Old 2011-12-19, 22:33   Link #93
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And the "plot weaving" has basically shown that the only real difference in Arthur's lore to what actually happened is basically Arthur's gender. Everything else happened as we know it.
Half. Merlin did give her something "extra" sometimes, right?

I don't think past futa!Saber is a spoiler 'cause has no bearing on the story... Just an anecdote.
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Old 2011-12-20, 00:42   Link #94
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
It's actually a bit ironic but also telling of their characters that Rider and Archer, the two most self-absorbed heroes in this war, are also the two most capable at actually reading and analyzing others. Rider managed to completely bring Saber inside out, and Archer bluntly but brilliantly deconstructed Kirei.
that is what made them both better kings then saber. Disagree with Rider and Archer way of the king if you want but they both understood their people much better then Saber ever did understand hers.
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Old 2011-12-20, 06:41   Link #95
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I laughed at the part Gil trolled Kotomine for not realizing something was pointless. Maybe the episode itself was pointless too. Ok, I kid.

It was okay, though Ufotable could learn to move the camera around more instead of the talking heads. Ok, I guess they've tried before and failed miserably like that infamous walk around the room for no reason scene, but it definitely drags down an otherwise great anime.

I'm not against talking philosophy and attitudes towards life, but we already had something like this last episode, and with only Gil talking it just doesn't hold up, even if it was a nice monologue which contrased Gil's world view with Kotomine's own motivations that may encourage him to finally cross the line. The main draw of the episode is the revelation that they will probably betray that sad lump of coal known as Toikomi. Still for the second to last episode of the first half, I just felt that spelling these things out like this makes it pretty meh. I was already a bit worried when they said this is going on break for a season. :/

Saber and Irisviel are enjoying their new home together. Care for a mana recharge? 6/10
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Old 2011-12-20, 10:08   Link #96
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I kinda agree that people have misconception, expectation and priorities of what Fate/Zero is or should be. F/Z is a very heavy dialogue driven, not actions. You can say it is more of a drama anime with a splice of action here and there rather than full-blown action genre. Actions only serve to explain motivation and growth of characters since the novel only has a limited amount of space to fill words in.

Killing characters of would be easy but it would not have as much impact as killing them after building up the character first, nor to show the characteristics of characters.
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Old 2011-12-20, 18:29   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
He's an idiot.

He summoned one of the biggest thrill-seekers in history (Gilgamesh) and expects him to sit back and stay in his basement?

At least he should have had Kirei summoning Enkidu or something to keep him entertained.
Tokiomi doesn't see Gil as a person, though, he sees him like a tool, just like he would with any other servant. As far as he's concerned, Gil is just there to fight and win him the Grail, nothing else.

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Is there a point in anyone fighting Kariya to begin with, he will die within a month, and then anyone can contract his servant.
Yes, and Grail Wars only last a couple of weeks or so (much longer than that, and the prana supply runs out...).

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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Maybe making faithful 2 cour adaptation for 4 volume of LN is bad idea afterall, they should just butch it or something.
Then they'd get slated by the actual fans of the original Light Novel, and rightly so.

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The biggest problem with this episode is that the entire episode seems to be about alluding to future events in FSN. But because of the forum rules we can't talk about them. It's an even bigger problem when it also alludes to future events in the FSN VN and not the anime. This is about as much that can be said...
We can talk about them in other threads, right?

But, yeah, in general, there is a whole bunch of stuff in Zero which is blatently aimed at people who've played Fate/Stay Night (the Rin episode was the most obvious example of that, because without prior FSN knowledge she's just some random loli, really).

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The correct order to read/watch the two series is F/SN -> F/Z, and therefore the spoiler policy should treat F/Z as the sequel (a prequel is a sequel). Forbidding F/SN spoilers in F/Z is as nonsensical as forbidding people to talk about the first season of a show in the thread for the second season.
Well, whilst I see your point, the problem is that Zero is a prequel to the Visual Novel (which many people on here have not seen) rather than to the FSN anime. To attempt to discuss Zero based solely on the FSN anime would just be plain ridiculous, but to allow causal spoilers for the VN would be unfair on the large number of people who have not yet read it (even if Zero itself does spoiler a huge chunk of it, in particular HF).

It does make some of the discussions rather absurd, yes, but we do have a thread for people who have read the VN but not Zero already.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I know. My point is that this thread shouldn't have had to exist in the first place. It should have been the opposite: special thread for F/Z-only watchers, regular episodes threads for everybody else (i.e, those who are doing it right). It seems only natural to me to be able to talk about the original work in a thread about its "sequel".
Yes, but most people have not read the original work.....

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...not that it would have solved everything anyway since spoilers from the VN would still be forbidden, and the route that sheds the most light on you-know-who's personality happens to be the one that has yet to be adapted into anime. Ignore me.
Exactly. That would be a total joke, because Zero is not a prequel to the FSN anime, it's a prequel to the FSN game. If they'd done that, I'd be raging furiously at the unfairness of them assuming that the FSN anime is somehow "canon" when it quite patently is not.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I completely and strongly agree.

To me, it would be like having a forum for discussion on the Star Wars Prequels in which it was considered spoilerrific and unacceptable to reference events from the original Star Wars trilogy. In my opinion that's pretty nonsensical, and I can't imagine many Star Wars fans being cool with that. It does indeed limit discussions to a considerable degree, as a lot of the fun of discussing/watching prequels is in trying to determine how it relates back to the characters and events in the original story.

Talking about Fate/Stay Night the anime on Fate/Zero episode threads should be no different than talking about Shana seasons 1 and 2 on a Shana III episode thread, imo. In-canon chronology is not what is important here, it's the order that the series were produced in and the order in which they're intended to be watched in.
But the FSN anime is not a sequel to Zero, the game is. The anime is just some horrible bastardisation that Deen came up with to make money.
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Old 2011-12-21, 00:25   Link #98
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Just a reminder that any F/SN discussion does not belong in the F/Z anime threads. There are other threads where you can compare and contrast the characters.

Thank you.
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Old 2011-12-21, 05:43   Link #99
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Pretty slow episode, but it was still decent. Archer/Kirei discussion was best part especially since Kirei finally got character development. Most of the other scenes feel a bit too padded and it seems almost everyone has forgotten about catching Caster.
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Old 2011-12-22, 23:21   Link #100
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The pre-release screenshots for the last episode for the year, Episode 13 is out:

Spoiler for Episode 13:
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