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Old 2013-04-02, 03:27   Link #201
NoemiChan
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Episode 3... The glasses and the moeness.... it can't be helped....
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Old 2013-04-02, 15:47   Link #202
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Is Miyuki's conversion unrealistically complete? Yes and no. I look at his character as someone who's major issues weren't with Izumiko, but with his father (and apparently with good reason). He's an adolescent, and since he wasn't really able to take his frustrations out on Yukimasa he peevishly took them out on Izumiko. Not only was she handy, but also conveniently symbolic of everything Miyuki was angry about - having no control over his life, his father's domineering nature, and a system that's based on heredity rather than merit (and we see subtle signs in this episode that Miyuki is still troubled by this aspect of Izumiko).
I would gladly take that theory as justification for Miyuki's attitude if it weren't for one thing: the flashback where he is shown being mean to Izumiko as a child. That one little scene painted him as a brat and makes the sudden shift in the second episode harder to swallow.
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Old 2013-04-02, 16:22   Link #203
Bern-san
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I would gladly take that theory as justification for Miyuki's attitude if it weren't for one thing: the flashback where he is shown being mean to Izumiko as a child. That one little scene painted him as a brat and makes the sudden shift in the second episode harder to swallow.
I don't remember if Miyuki met Izumiko when they were young more than once, but maybe you can apply the same theory for the flashback.

The change is sudden indeed but what can you do when you adapt certain stories for a 1-cour anime. I think the flashback like Dextro said is the main problem, the creator did intend to show him as a problematic boy due to his father's behavior but they exaggerated and gave a very bad impression (at least worse than intended for the hero/main interest).

The twist about Wamiya was unexpected in the sense that I didn't expect him to try and kill them.

Oh and props to Hayami Saori's performance in the dance scene, I started paying attention to what she did after seeing her in Star Driver.
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Old 2013-04-02, 16:46   Link #204
kuromitsu
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I just watched eps 2-3 and I still don't know what to think of this show. It's trying so hard, it obviously puts its considerable budget to good use, and episode 2 even had some nice moments, but overall I feel RDG lacks something. I can't really put my finger on what it is, but it's so... I don't know, generic? Unsubtle?

I'm sure that part of what gives me this feeling is the whole Izumiko-Miyuki thing. Their relationship is progressing in a predictable way, they keep reacting to each other in predictable ways, without any "spice" to give them some flavor. It doesn't really help that they lack chemistry, though I think that's the seiyuu's fault.

Actually, another problem I have with this show is the seiyuu, or rather, the voice direction. The main voices are kind of all over the place. Miyuki and Izumiko are like they're from two different series, and they even stick out from the general cast. Miyuki's voice is too deep and strong compared to the other boys (never mind Wamiya...), and Izumiko sounds way too young - I realize Hayami Saori is using a very small voice to convey Izumiko's shy and timid personality, but I think it's taken too far. It got better toward the end of ep 3, though, so I guess her voice will change and get stronger as she gains more self-confidence. Anyway, there's still a weird disconnect in the Izumiko-Miyuki scenes. Their voices don't mesh at all.

Other problematic performances are (to me, anyway) Yukimasa and Wamiya, though it seems Wamiya won't be a problem for a while. (I kind of like the character but Kugimiya Rie should stick to girls and little boys. I hope I'll hear her in Azazel-san again as Kiyoko...) As for Yukimasa, I wish Fukuyama Jun would just stop trying to use this voice in serious anime, because it sounds so fake. :/ He had some okay moments in ep 2, though, so I hope he'll find a tone that comes more naturally to him.

As for the story, episode 2 was easily the most interesting out of the three so far, and I hope there will be more of its kind later on, but until then I'm counting on the side characters to make RDG interesting.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-04-02 at 18:07.
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Old 2013-04-02, 18:32   Link #205
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Whatever the justification for Miyuki's quick change from episode 1 to 3, it was conveyed very poorly in the anime. The fact that they started him off so unlikable in the first episode was a bad decision.

Of course I like Miyuki's characterization better now but the change itself is not believable to me. This is what had me worried in the first episode. You can make a change like this believable, unfortunately the anime failed at it for me. I can only chalk it up to bad writing.

Everything also feels really rushed. Of course it is because this is a one cour series...but that has me worried.

I did enjoy the twist about Wamiya but I kind of feel the only reason I am sticking with this is because the spring season hasn't really started yet and I don't have a whole lot else to watch.
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Old 2013-04-02, 19:52   Link #206
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Whatever the justification for Miyuki's quick change from episode 1 to 3, it was conveyed very poorly in the anime. The fact that they started him off so unlikable in the first episode was a bad decision.

Of course I like Miyuki's characterization better now but the change itself is not believable to me. This is what had me worried in the first episode. You can make a change like this believable, unfortunately the anime failed at it for me. I can only chalk it up to bad writing.

Everything also feels really rushed. Of course it is because this is a one cour series...but that has me worried.

I did enjoy the twist about Wamiya but I kind of feel the only reason I am sticking with this is because the spring season hasn't really started yet and I don't have a whole lot else to watch.
No need for a justification for the changes from ep 1. The second half of ep 1 was just terribly written and directed. If they hadn't screwed that up, we wouldn't be talking about the development like we are.

I'll keep this point until it sticks: We should have been feeling sympathy FOR Miyuki in ep 1, given everything we knew at that point. The production staff went out of their way to make you respond badly to him just so we can get "growth!" in short order. It was simply terribly done and, had we not gotten the pre-airs for eps 2 & 3, this series probably fails when ep 1 hits in a few days.
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Old 2013-04-02, 20:29   Link #207
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I would gladly take that theory as justification for Miyuki's attitude if it weren't for one thing: the flashback where he is shown being mean to Izumiko as a child. That one little scene painted him as a brat and makes the sudden shift in the second episode harder to swallow.
He was what, 7 years old? I hardly think that constitutes definitive proof or disproof of anything.
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Old 2013-04-02, 22:06   Link #208
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Whatever the justification for Miyuki's quick change from episode 1 to 3, it was conveyed very poorly in the anime.
The show has a kind of fractured feel to it, like we're actually on episode 5 but for some reason 2 and 4 are missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
He was what, 7 years old? I hardly think that constitutes definitive proof or disproof of anything.
There are still people hating on Taichi for stealing Arata's glasses; I don't think Miyuki has any hope of forgiveness.
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Old 2013-04-03, 00:40   Link #209
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
He was what, 7 years old? I hardly think that constitutes definitive proof or disproof of anything.
I'd say that Izumiko and Miyuki looked closer to 5 in that scene, which just makes matters worse. The scene actually suggested that Izumiko was in need of serious intervention, as a small child that will neither cry out or attack back has a serious set of issues either in place or developed already.

It just goes to how out of place and badly done that entire set of scenes was. Especially considering that flash back was in done the "night" after Miyuki got his butt kicked (so he's in physical pain), he just got told his life is being upended and, oh, that girl he picked on a little when they were kids? He's not even *good enough* to be more than her servant. There isn't much more disrespect the series could heap upon Miyuki at that point, then they try to make us not like him by a mostly out of place childhood memory.

It was atrocious writing.
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Old 2013-04-03, 04:47   Link #210
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Intellectually, I get Miyuki's character, I think. It's a classic projection situation: we saw him give in to his father (after being beaten up), and we saw him give in to Wamiya in episode 3. He has no confidence in his own abilities and won't even try, and he sees that in the way Izumiko behaves. He's abusing himself, really, when he's mean to her.

Izumiko is quite the opposite. No overt rebellion, but she starts out the show quietly cutting her hair, and when it counts, she stands up to a god. In a sense, the obvious protector/protectee relationship is inverted (and I think the "godess" whoever that is has a hunch, but it's too early to tell).

This should be interesting, and sometimes I do get lost in the show, but for the most part it just doesn't grab me. (It's not as bad as Another, for me, but there are similarities.) What Kuromitsu said about the voice direction rings true in general, I'd say. It's as if the characters respond to cues: be timid, be angry, be confident... without much sense of context.

On the plus side, I really liked the orchestral arrangement of the ending in the final scene. I think the soundtrack and the non-character visuals really deliver. (I'm not fond of the character animation, either. I feel little... concept in the characters' movements. Take the new girl in the ending, for example. She looks like the template for a type I normally like, but I don't react to her at all.)

The show has spots of real brilliance (like the computer-diving-metaphor scene in episode 1, or Wamiya disappearing as an air shape in episode 3).

Really, if the show finds its stride it can be so good. I wish I could be more optimistic than I am.
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Old 2013-04-03, 13:52   Link #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I would gladly take that theory as justification for Miyuki's attitude if it weren't for one thing: the flashback where he is shown being mean to Izumiko as a child. That one little scene painted him as a brat and makes the sudden shift in the second episode harder to swallow.
It's not like he spent his whole childhood tormenting her , it happened one time

Doing something mean one time to someone doesn't make you a bully.
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Old 2013-04-03, 14:03   Link #212
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Watched episode 1-3.
One thing that throws me off are the sudden small timeskips. Characters just seem to fade in and out, and its suddenly weeks later or something.

Don't see the shift in Miyuki as anything strange. He didn't want to suddenly get moved around because he had no idea what's going on and thought Izumiko was just a dumb little girl.

Then he sees that a big thing is happening in the backgrounds, and the dad that so forcefully made him stay just suddenly dismisses him from his post. So obviously now he's curious and has an incentive to stay.

Interested in how the new school they transferred to is like. Apparently its some type of Mountain Monk school or has a huge population of them in it.
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Old 2013-04-03, 14:32   Link #213
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So the show officially premiere on tv. I guess no more sneak peaks for me. I'm going to wait for the hd rips from now on.
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Old 2013-04-03, 17:53   Link #214
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Finally watched the first episode. I'm glad I held off until because it would have been a shame to watch such a beautiful looking show in such poor quality.

I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. The premise is intriguing enough but I'm not sure where the plot is going. Obviously, the first few episodes will focus on Izumiko and Miyuki's heated relationship and they will grow closer as they come to understand each other. It's also pretty safe to assume both of them will change for the better. You know, the typical development. Beyond that, however, I have no clue. This could go anywhere. Will there be some kind of overarching plot or is this just going to be a coming of age story with an ultimately irrelevant supernatural backdrop? I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.

The characters were pretty dull. Izumiko is a complete doormat and Miyuki is the angsty teenager who acts like a jerk (though I'm sure he's actually a very nice guy). I understand both of them have their circumstances but that doesn't make them any less uninteresting to watch. Their interaction were more painful than entertaining.

Basically, right now, I'm only interested in the supernatural element. I want to find out more about Himegami.

So, how many people are going to follow the TV broadcast? If there are enough of us, maybe we could work something out. Otherwise, nevermind.
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Old 2013-04-03, 19:42   Link #215
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Held off on the previews, and watched the first ep. Well i'm interested in Izumiko's powers. That was kind of cool how she just video called her dad. She certainly has a weird situation. Sagara beating up Miyuki was funny.
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Old 2013-04-04, 04:58   Link #216
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Was there a large passage of time that I am unaware of? Is Episode 3 REALLY only the third episode? Because the changes I saw in Izumiko and Miyuki's personalities and how they now interact with one another is extremely awkward given what we were shown in Episode 1. While I certainly don't have any desire to go back to the Episode 1 version of Miyuki, what I saw in Episode 3 just didn't make sense to me.

And as adorable as I find Izumiko, does she seriously like him THAT much already? Just because he was the only one around at the time to protect her from the Mistyblack McBadtouch spirits, she already wants to be best friends with the dude? I don't understand. This is maddening. It seems like the juicy stuff (learning more about Himegami/the McBadtouch spirits/Izumiko's powers) is pacing at an decent rate, whereas Izumiko and Miyuki's character 'development' is paced at a rate that makes little to no sense. So many things feel inconsistent. Was the original author of the novel confused about what he wanted to do with his main characters in the first book or something?

Right now, I'm solely watching this to find out more about Himegami, Izumiko's powers, and the mysteries surrounding all of those things. The supernatural aspects, music, and gorgeously detailed setting are the best things this show has going for it (if not the only things).
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Old 2013-04-04, 05:06   Link #217
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
And as adorable as I find Izumiko, does she seriously like him THAT much already? Just because he was the only one around at the time to protect her from the Mistyblack McBadtouch spirits, she already wants to be best friends with the dude? I don't understand. This is maddening.
Even though it's very much possible at that age it did feel somewhat awkward
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Old 2013-04-04, 05:11   Link #218
SQA
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
Was there a large passage of time that I am unaware of? Is Episode 3 REALLY only the third episode? Because the changes I saw in Izumiko and Miyuki's personalities and how they now interact with one another is extremely awkward given what we were shown in Episode 1. While I certainly don't have any desire to go back to the Episode 1 version of Miyuki, what I saw in Episode 3 just didn't make sense to me.

And as adorable as I find Izumiko, does she seriously like him THAT much already? Just because he was the only one around at the time to protect her from the Mistyblack McBadtouch spirits, she already wants to be best friends with the dude? I don't understand. This is maddening. It seems like the juicy stuff (learning more about Himegami/the McBadtouch spirits/Izumiko's powers) is pacing at an decent rate, whereas Izumiko and Miyuki's character 'development' is paced at a rate that makes little to no sense. So many things feel inconsistent. Was the original author of the novel confused about what he wanted to do with his main characters in the first book or something?

Right now, I'm solely watching this to find out more about Himegami, Izumiko's powers, and the mysteries surrounding all of those things. The supernatural aspects, music, and gorgeously detailed setting are the best things this show has going for it (if not the only things).
The second half of ep 1 was terribly, terribly written/directed. If you ignore that "character" building (which was more odd misdirection), it seems fairly consistent in eps 2 & 3. That screw up of ep 1 explains all of the confusion and all of the series problems, currently. I keep repeating it because it now, as of 3 eps in, is extremely noticeable. It was almost bad enough to sink the series, but we need to see more to make a judgement on that aspect.

On the time passage, we got a time skip of a few weeks from eps 1 to 2, then at least 1 month near the end of ep 3. Though it's hard to judge the time frames. It's possible everything in eps 1-2 happened in Fall, and it's now April at the end of ep 3.
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Old 2013-04-04, 05:56   Link #219
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The second half of ep 1 was terribly, terribly written/directed. If you ignore that "character" building (which was more odd misdirection), it seems fairly consistent in eps 2 & 3. That screw up of ep 1 explains all of the confusion and all of the series problems, currently.
Yes, this is very much it. If I had (for some reason) started with episodes 2 & 3, then Miyuki and Izumiko's relationship would just seem very standard compared to what I've seen in so many other shows. But when you include the latter half of the first episode, there is this odd feeling of dissonance. I would really like a lot more insight into their backstories.

Also, how close is P.A. Works following the source material, exactly? Is the odd pacing of events from the second half of episode 1 to episode 2/3 and Miyuki's initial attitude the same in the novel?
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Old 2013-04-04, 06:06   Link #220
kuromitsu
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The second half of ep 1 was terribly, terribly written/directed. If you ignore that "character" building (which was more odd misdirection), it seems fairly consistent in eps 2 & 3. That screw up of ep 1 explains all of the confusion and all of the series problems, currently. I keep repeating it because it now, as of 3 eps in, is extremely noticeable.
Frankly, I don't think it was a writing/direction problem, at least not on this level. I mean, even in episode 2 at first you have Izumiko saying she hates Miyuki, then Tokyo happens, and at the start of ep 3 (a few days at most after ep 2) Izumiko is like "oh, I don't hate him anymore" - apparently because Miyuki protected her and she felt safe with him. As this was an important plot point in ep 3 they couldn't tone Miyuki's behavior down or make him more sympathetic, otherwise Izumiko would come across as unreasonable.

By the way, I don't think we're supposed to hate Miyuki in ep 1, otherwise they wouldn't have included the part where Yukimasa beat him up and forced him to obey by threatening to kill him. That was obviously there to make the viewer feel sympathy for him. But I do think we're supposed to think that Miyuki is an ass to Izumiko. He's incredibly rude to her the moment they meet, when his only real problem is that he's wasting his precious holiday. What happens later on gives a more understandable basis for his dislike for her, but doesn't change the fact that he's an ass to her. The things he's saying to her... it's stuff one may think about someone but not tell them in their face, especially if they're just as lost and helpless as you are. Oh, sure, part of it is just venting and taking out his anger at himself on her, but I think it's made very clear that he does honestly think she's worthless and useless. When Izumiko remembers him bullying her when they were children, he says he did it because was annoyed by her uselessness and wanted to provoke her. Earlier on, whatshername, the woman who takes care of Izumi says she remembers how Miyuki always made Izumiko cry.

Of course, we all know that this is because starting out like this will make the positive change in his character and their relationship during the course of the series more impressive... This is why I don't mind that by ep 3 they're already on more or less friendly terms, with Miyuki honestly admiring her dance and the way she dealt with Wamiya. At least they didn't drag out the "I hate you" game for too long when we know they're going to end up liking each other. (hell, they're kissing in the OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
But when you include the latter half of the first episode, there is this odd feeling of dissonance. I would really like a lot more insight into their backstories.
I think making people curious about their backstory was supposed to be the point...

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-04-04 at 06:18.
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