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Old 2013-06-02, 09:40   Link #401
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Spoiler for ep12:
Great work by Hayami Saori. Quite the season for her, with this, Yukino in Yahari Ore, and Leviathan all at the same time.
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characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete
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Old 2013-06-02, 12:09   Link #402
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Old 2013-06-02, 15:15   Link #403
Ghanw
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So what is the final ending of this as the anime didn't end with the final novel ending?
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Old 2013-06-02, 15:24   Link #404
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghanw View Post
So what is the final ending of this as the anime didn't end with the final novel ending?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...67#post4697967
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Old 2013-06-03, 20:47   Link #405
kuromitsu
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So... this is it, I guess? I wish I could say I enjoyed the episode, but to be honest my overall reaction is "Yep, I'll have to read the books."

Spoiler for ep 12:


Spoiler for ep 12 - Souda whining:


In short and in conclusion: I wouldn't be surprised if there was an OVA. But if there isn't, I guess this could serve as an ending, even though it's not very satisfying (unless you're only watching it for Miyuki and Izumiko).

As for the show in general: even though around ep 7 I got interested in the Souda triplets and ep 9 made me interested in the himegami plotline, my overall opinion that I had since the start didn't really change, unfortunately. This show simply lacks something. A heart, a soul, I don't know - something just doesn't click. There's something business-like about how it goes about telling its story, and to make it worse, for a long time the writers managed to keep the story flowing without hiccups even though they must've cut a lot from the original material, but in the recent episodes the cuts became a lot more apparent. :/ And the Miyuki x Izumiko relationship which is supposed to be the emotional backbone is just not working for me.

So yeah. Perhaps the books are better. I definitely hope for more Souda stuff.

Also, an overall observation: this trend of adapting things into half as many episodes as they would need really needs to stop. :/

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-04 at 16:29. Reason: typo
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Old 2013-06-03, 21:51   Link #406
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
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All in all, I loved this show. I thought the final episode did an amazing job of bringing things just together enough to be satisfying. From reading spoilers, it doesn't seem to me that the novel added that much more of significance. Even the Souda triplets sub-plot was brought together enough for me.

This ending is definitely just the beginning of something, but that works for me. Even the romantic feelings worked for me, despite how little I liked Miyuki as he was played. We broke through that at the end by having him fall asleep: the only way he could soften enough for me to like him was for him to go unconscious, lol.

Of course, the main reason I liked the show was Izumiko. I find deep insecurity both attractive and easy to identify with. Izumiko's emergence to a modicum of confidence was very satisfying. Fine work by Hayami Saori, as I've said several times.

As far as relentlessness can determine, twelve episodes is it.
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Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | autumn 2014 previews | autumn 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete
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Old 2013-06-04, 05:00   Link #407
kuromitsu
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Things were brought together, yes, but not in a way that I can find satisfying.

Spoiler for ep 12:

I liked the characters (well, I'm neutral on Miyuki), the story got pretty interesting around the Togakushi incident and the himegami reveal, and overall the acting was very good (aside of Fukuyama and Uchiyama, and thank god human!Wamiya didn't last long), so it's not like I didn't enjoy the show. I just find it disappointing.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-04 at 09:55.
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Old 2013-06-04, 21:45   Link #408
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
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Your points make sense. Maybe I'm just easy to please...when I want to be.

I do definitely agree that trying to cram a story that needs 2n episodes into n episodes is a recurring problem. But so is not properly deciding what aspects of a source can be left out, and ending up doing three things badly rather than one thing well. I find two-cour shows often seem to lose focus, and I basically prefer 12 crisp episodes that go a bit too quickly to 24 episodes that don't know where they're going.
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Kuno Misaki 久野美咲 age 21. 2009 - King of Thorn (Alie). 2010 - Oreimo (Bridget). 2012 - Black Rock Shooter (Hiro). 2013 - Problem children (Melln). Ro-Kyu-Bu! SS (Mimi), Log Horizon (Serara), Galilei Donna (Grande Rosso). 2014 - Noragami (Keiichi), Escha and Logy (Kuu), Zvezda Plot (Hoshimiya Kate/Venera-sama), Wixoss (Tama), Mahouka Koukou (Kasuga Nanami), Flag o Oraretara (Kurumiko), Nanana (Saki), Seven Deadly Sins (Hawk).
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | autumn 2014 previews | autumn 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete
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Old 2013-06-05, 05:58   Link #409
kuromitsu
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Heh, I'm easy to please, too - it's just that this show didn't push the right buttons (or not often enough).

And yes, it's true that 2-cour series are more liable to meandering, especially when there's not enough source material so they need to drag things out. I can imagine what a difficult decision length can be in some cases, from a writing perspective, when the source material is too long for 1 cour but not meaty enough for 2 cours. Although a more common problem seems to be when a show would've needed just one or two more episodes to avoid rushing or having to cut things that would've made the viewers more immersed or emotionally involved. RDG, for example - I believe it would've benefited a lot from an extra ~23 minutes. (Of course in the end it's not the writer who decides how many episodes he or she gets. :/ )

(By the way, I just noticed that the official site has a glossary of terms, which includes, among less common/show specific terms, words like "ninja," "onmyouji" or "Shugendou," and also stuff like "Kuzuryuu-ookami," "shikigami" and "shinrei." Apparently they didn't expect Japanese viewers to be familiar with everything...)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-05 at 06:48.
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Old 2013-06-05, 06:46   Link #410
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Your points make sense. Maybe I'm just easy to please...when I want to be.

I do definitely agree that trying to cram a story that needs 2n episodes into n episodes is a recurring problem. But so is not properly deciding what aspects of a source can be left out, and ending up doing three things badly rather than one thing well. I find two-cour shows often seem to lose focus, and I basically prefer 12 crisp episodes that go a bit too quickly to 24 episodes that don't know where they're going.
You have a point: On one hand, I think RDG would benefit from more episodes to develop the characters, but too many episodes and the show might just lose it's thread, especially if they put in some filler. The show already has a meandering feel to it, after all.
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Old 2013-06-06, 11:29   Link #411
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#10

The school festival continues.
I like the theme, it's different and nice.
It was also nice watching them have normal festival problems.
Izumiko is still a scaredy cat. That girl needs to find some courage.
Hope thing will be more interesting next time.
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Old 2013-06-08, 19:54   Link #412
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Even Masumi making a move on Izumiko was just a plot device to bring her relationship with Miyuki to a new level.
Hm, I don't think so. I thought the implication was, if Izumiko went with Masumi, she would become inhuman. And Izumiko + inhuman = Himegami.
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Old 2013-06-08, 21:06   Link #413
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Final episode was nice. There were plenty of mysteries left unsolved, but it kind of fit with the general way this series has been.. it just doesn't make an effort to explain every detail to the viewer.

One wonders what went differently in this timeline to prevent goddess destruction mode (and why it went differently).
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Old 2013-06-09, 05:48   Link #414
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
Hm, I don't think so. I thought the implication was, if Izumiko went with Masumi, she would become inhuman. And Izumiko + inhuman = Himegami.
That's not the impression I got... I mean, Izumiko = Himegami. To me it seemed that if she went with Masumi she would stop existing in the human world. Masumi would eat her, or she would continue to exist in the spiritual "plane" (so to speak) that he inhabits.
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Old 2013-06-09, 06:00   Link #415
Bern-san
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Spoiler for 12:


In general the anime had many faults in terms of adaptation, I haven't read the novels but it was obvious enough that the anime skipped through a lot of content which made some interactions weird (the first episode being the worst example).
Despite this, I managed to care about the main couple in the end, it has been interesting enough to make me want to know what happens next and Hayami Saori's performance has been outstanding although I had my doubts in the first episode.
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Old 2013-06-09, 06:08   Link #416
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern-san View Post
Spoiler for 12:
Spoiler for spoiler:


It's a pity the anime scrapped all that. We never got to see Izumiko growing a spine and fighting on her own.
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Old 2013-06-09, 11:32   Link #417
Dawnstorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
That's not the impression I got... I mean, Izumiko = Himegami. To me it seemed that if she went with Masumi she would stop existing in the human world. Masumi would eat her, or she would continue to exist in the spiritual "plane" (so to speak) that he inhabits.
I think that Izumiko will be the himegami, but the himegami is Izumiko. That would give an interesting new spin to what she told Miyuki: don't let her become the himegami.

Also, if Masumi would just remove Izumiko into the spirit world with no ill effect, then basically Masumi would have saved the world from the himegami's destructive powers. However we learn from Nonomura that this is the day Izumiko turns into the himegami. If I'm right, it's not (as I thought) "possession/fusion" (as with her mother); something Izumiko does will lead to it.

I really do think that the show suggests that moment was point zero. It may be a bit dodgy, but a lot of things make sense to me when viewed that way.

For example, the himegami forgetting things could be the memories returning to experiences that created them in the first place. Then, through that connection, Izumiko could "remember" Takayanagi, and somehow associate him with abandoning the world and turning towards the spirit realm.

It's the only interpretation I have that gives me a sense of closure. (But it wouldn't be the first time that I'm wrong.)
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Old 2013-06-09, 16:13   Link #418
kuromitsu
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I thought Izumiko "became" the himegami, that is, came into her own, when she kicked Takayanagi's ass. She angsts about being the himegami right before Masumi appears, and then to Masumi, and then later she tells Miyuki that when she realized she was the himegami she was so scared she just wanted to run and hide blah blah blah. Which is in line with what Nonomura tells Miyuki - this is the day when Izumiko awakens. She did, in fact, awaken.

I think the problem with her going with Masumi was simply that this way she would've left her previous life behind, along with everyone she loves (= Miyuki, mostly), and she just didn't want that. All her life she wanted to be just a normal girl, himegami or no himegami. Accepting Masumi's offer would've meant giving that up. I guess if she had a better grasp on her newfound powers and was in a better state of mind, she could've just made Masumi gtfo (after all, the himegami was able to make him to return to his cave at Togakushi), but she was too scared and upset, and running away didn't seem like such a bad idea anyway. But when Miyuki called her she decided to go back to him (and presumably everyone else) and face the life she wanted to live. Hopefully without destroying humankind - this part is pretty vague, unfortunately. Perhaps it has something to do with her self-confidence and inner strength.

Also, I'm not sure going with Masumi would've saved the world. Perhaps if Masumi ate her, though I guess if that's what he wanted he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of giving her a makeover, summoning the ladies, etc. It would help if we knew how Izumiko destroyed humankind in the first timeline, and how it was destroyed in the second... (Did she turn all humans into adorable shiba dogs? If yes, I'm actually OK with that. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
For example, the himegami forgetting things could be the memories returning to experiences that created them in the first place. Then, through that connection, Izumiko could "remember" Takayanagi, and somehow associate him with abandoning the world and turning towards the spirit realm.
I thought the himegami forgetting things was simply the result of having lived for so long. She's lived through hundreds of generations twice, in spirit form, but technically she's still just a human, not a spiritual entity like Masumi/Kuzuryuu, who is immortal and has the mindset to deal with it. As she told Miyuki, her sense of identity, and with this, her sense of purpose have already started to crumble, which is why this is the last chance.

Anyway, this is how it makes sense to me.
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Old 2013-06-09, 21:05   Link #419
Master_Yoma
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Well this was good and Izumiko was just so cute but this would of been better if it was 24eps to full out the story


7/10
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:48   Link #420
Dawnstorm
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Easier things first:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I thought the himegami forgetting things was simply the result of having lived for so long. She's lived through hundreds of generations twice, in spirit form, but technically she's still just a human, not a spiritual entity like Masumi/Kuzuryuu, who is immortal and has the mindset to deal with it. As she told Miyuki, her sense of identity, and with this, her sense of purpose have already started to crumble, which is why this is the last chance.

Anyway, this is how it makes sense to me.
Here, I was simply wrong; easy as that. I forgot that she's already failed (at least?) once, so what I said can't be true.

Quote:
I thought Izumiko "became" the himegami, that is, came into her own, when she kicked Takayanagi's ass. She angsts about being the himegami right before Masumi appears, and then to Masumi, and then later she tells Miyuki that when she realized she was the himegami she was so scared she just wanted to run and hide blah blah blah. Which is in line with what Nonomura tells Miyuki - this is the day when Izumiko awakens. She did, in fact, awaken.
I've always assumed that the difference between Izumiko and the Himegami is that the former is still human, while tha later isn't. I thought that the moment with Masumi was a pivotal point: will she abandon her humanity or not?

I see parallels between Izumiko-as-himegami and Masumi: you can stop being human, but people will still remember you and keep the bond alive. That's sort of tying Izumiko to the world whether she abandons it or not.

My hunch is very hazy - but I tend to see the division along those lines. Izumiko coming into her powers =/= Izumiko becoming the himegami; it's a no more than a prerequisit. Her reaction to it is what matters: If she takes responsibility, her powers are her own; if she doesn't, her powers become "divine", partly her own - but she'll lose herself in other people's "worship".

Not sure if that makes sense.

Quote:
All her life she wanted to be just a normal girl, himegami or no himegami. Accepting Masumi's offer would've meant giving that up. I guess if she had a better grasp on her newfound powers and was in a better state of mind, she could've just made Masumi gtfo (after all, the himegami was able to make him to return to his cave at Togakushi), but she was too scared and upset, and running away didn't seem like such a bad idea anyway. But when Miyuki called her she decided to go back to him (and presumably everyone else) and face the life she wanted to live. Hopefully without destroying humankind - this part is pretty vague, unfortunately. Perhaps it has something to do with her self-confidence and inner strength.
If I'm right here, and I still think I might be, then it's certainly about self-confidence and inner strength. It's about living the life she wants to live, regardless of her powers. She can only do that if she accepts both her powers and her humanity. That way she can face people as equals rather than as subordinates, supplicants or manipulators.

Quote:
Also, I'm not sure going with Masumi would've saved the world. Perhaps if Masumi ate her, though I guess if that's what he wanted he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of giving her a makeover, summoning the ladies, etc. It would help if we knew how Izumiko destroyed humankind in the first timeline, and how it was destroyed in the second... (Did she turn all humans into adorable shiba dogs? If yes, I'm actually OK with that. )
Yeah, we just know too little about that. What I think the show wants me to come away with is that for Izumiko to abandon her humanity is very dangerous for the world.

***

On a totally different note, I only just learned that Mel Kishida, original character design for RDG, is also responsible for the character desigin in the Arland Trilogy, a series of RPG games on the PS3. Now I can't help but imagine a game with these characters: Atelier Izuzu. It works surprisingly well as a parody.
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