AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-17, 20:25   Link #101
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I certainly won't defend the way he treats her for something that really isn't her fault, but it seems disproportionate (though quite typical) that he should receive a flood of criticism for rudeness while the Yamabushi character gets a trickle for child abuse. The two are by no means morally comparable as far as I'm concerned.
Well, as Kirarakim said, Yukimasa is not one half of the main couple. Also, to be honest, I'm not sure which one is worse, a child-beater or a 15 year old boy who pretty much bullies a shy and insecure girl. (Yes, I know he probably has a deep wound on his soul, and I'm sure his personality and his relationship with Izumiko will improve.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
The other thing I'll say about that is that I noticed Miyuki called his father by his given name, which at least suggests a small chance that the father-son relationship may be a front.
Or he just calls him by his given name because he has serious issues with him and doesn't want to call him "father". (Re: Ishida Uryuu from Bleach who also calls his dad "Ryuuken" instead of "father.")
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 20:27   Link #102
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
That's why I said "a small chance". It could certainly be nothing more than a way of disrespecting a man he doesn't feel deserves to be called a father.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 20:28   Link #103
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
He didn't physically attack her, though. Verbal abuse is bad, but what the "father" did left a 14 year-old what looked to be about one step away from the hospital.

I think it could be argued, in fact, that what Izumiko endures at school was much worse than what Miyuki said, which were just basically petulant outbursts. The stuff at school looked like it had been going on for a while, and might have constituted real bullying.
But I am not defending the father or comparing the son to the father. Of course physical abuse is wrong.

My issue is how they introduced the main male character as being mentally abusive to the female character. It's the writing itself that bothers me.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 20:42   Link #104
FredFriendly
Beyond the Fringe
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Right up until the point where Yukimasa appeared I was really intrigued by the episode. Yukimasa himself didn't dampen my interest very much, but as soon as Miyuki opened his mouth, things started going downhill in a hurry.

Oh no, not another god-like girl with a bullying servant. Didn't I just watch something like that not long ago? And, of course, the god-like girl will fall in love with the jerk (who will pretend he hasn't fallen in love with her) even though he continues to berate and bully her. He'll make her life miserable, on purpose, and kick everyone else's asses that either she tries to befriend, or who will try to befriend her.

The first eleven minutes really lured me into Izumiko's world. Beautiful visuals. Introverted girl with really nice friends who are willing to defend her. Wild, god-like powers that the girl doesn't understand herself, nor can she seem to control them.

And then they gotta turn all this wonderful stuff into the usual old crap. Can't say I wasn't disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think it could be argued, in fact, that what Izumiko endures at school was much worse than what Miyuki said, which were just basically petulant outbursts. The stuff at school looked like it had been going on for a while, and might have constituted real bullying.
Oh, give him time. I'm sure he could become much worse. Besides, the incidents we saw at school didn't seem to adversely affect her as the crap Miyuki spewed out at her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
The flashback to childhood, though, makes me wonder if he's always been an asshole and that's just his natural personality.
Sounds like you've hit the nail on the head. Once a jerk, always a jerk.

Quote:
I'm sure that Miyuki will grow on you, though, even if he was a prick in this first episode.
Yeah, like a super-fast growing, cancerous tumor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I'm not sure which one is worse, a child-beater or a 15 year old boy who pretty much bullies a shy and insecure girl.
Worse for who? The perpetrator, the victim, or society as a whole. Society as a whole, at least where I'm from, sees child abuse as far worse than bullying, even though bullying can, just like child-abuse, lead to the death of the victim. In this instance, as long as it is not physical, I'd say Izumiko could probably take the bullying as well as Miyuki can take the beatings.
FredFriendly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 20:52   Link #105
Dr. Casey
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Sounds like you've hit the nail on the head. Once a jerk, always a jerk.
Hmm... now I have to second guess whether Miyuki's really a jerk or not. The fact that you never warmed up to Houtarou even though he became a friendly and standup guy by the end of Hyouka makes me think your Jerkdar is broken, Fred.
Dr. Casey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 21:16   Link #106
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest
Well a good first episode but a lot of people saying things about her hair and again where are the police
__________________
Master_Yoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 21:37   Link #107
FredFriendly
Beyond the Fringe
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Hmm... now I have to second guess whether Miyuki's really a jerk or not. The fact that you never warmed up to Houtarou even though he became a friendly and standup guy by the end of Hyouka makes me think your Jerkdar is broken, Fred.
Oh, I don't think so. We see him, what, ten years ago, and Miyuki's being a jerk toward Izumiko. He meets her again ten years later and right off the bat, he laces into her again. And again. And again. He certainly hasn't seemed to have made any personal improvements in his attitude over the years, now has he? He was a jerk ten years ago, and he's still a jerk. Only the writer knows if he will be a jerk ten years from now.

Some people believe that all human babies are born little angels and have to learn bad behaviour. I don't. Miyuki seems to me to be the kind of baby that was born a little devil, and has to learn good behaviour.
FredFriendly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 21:49   Link #108
Utsuro no Hako
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Well, as Kirarakim said, Yukimasa is not one half of the main couple. Also, to be honest, I'm not sure which one is worse, a child-beater or a 15 year old boy who pretty much bullies a shy and insecure girl.
When the 15 year old is the child being beaten, I think it's understandable that he might have issues that he takes out on other people -- especially if hes' getting beaten for not being a pod-person who blindly accepts whatever crazy cult these people belong to, and the person he's lashing out at is easily mistaken for a pod-person. I'm not saying the way he's acting is justified -- for one thing, we know Izumiko isn't a pod-person -- but nothing I've seen so far puts him into the irredeemable jerkass category.
Utsuro no Hako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 22:40   Link #109
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
Lol, I couldn't stand the low res video, so basically I did...

Fast forward
Fast Forwad
Still no osananajimi yet?
Fast Forward
Oh Look Wamiya (or whatever his name was)
Wait, just seem like a schoolmate
Fast Forward
Miyuki! And they met 10 years ago! Eureka!
Finds out he is a bully now AND was a bully in the past
Why you do this Japan, labelling jerks like him as childhood friend?



Oh well, I guess I'll take what I can get. He most probably would be a Jerk with a Heart of Gold in the end. :shrug:

In any case, won't probably watch the full episode in earnest until it's actual air date. Terrible resoultion is terrible. XD
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 23:19   Link #110
garbage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
I, personally, don't think there's anything morally repulsive about Izumiko either. Miyuki, on the other hand, obviously feels very strongly about Izumiko's passivity, to the point of finding it actually offensive. If I was THAT offended by passivity, the idea of my life existing to "serve" someone like that would be equally offensive. That's what I mean by "morally repulsive".
well there's a difference between someone being repulsive & morally repulsive. Izumiko hasn't done or shown anything that one could consider against Miyuki's morals to such a great degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Miyuki does find the system that Izumiko represents morally repulsive, it seems - a system where status and power are conferred based on birth rather than merit.
Exactly, that's what I mean when I said miyuki should have understood better her situation coming from the same family. To tie in with above, the system might be morally repulsive but that does not equate to her being morally offensive as she is as much a "victim" of it as him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
He didn't physically attack her, though. Verbal abuse is bad, but what the "father" did left a 14 year-old what looked to be about one step away from the hospital.
repeatedly throwing that ball at her back as a child is borderline though, that is a physical attack. it can be painful (at their age during that flashback) depending though on the ball, but at that distance he had to throw that with some force. it also indicates he could have gone past that before. Again discussion was not really about Miyuki vs yukimasa :who is worse?. and yes it really is bad what that guy did to his son.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I'm sure that Miyuki will grow on you, though, even if he was a prick in this first episode.

Spoiler for Right?:
well the OP assures it. For the picture though...I don't know he looks too much like Judal. And Haru never really grew on me Oreki though is one of my faves, but then Oreki has never done anything close what Miyuki (or Haru) did, continuously in this 1st episode.
__________________
garbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 01:35   Link #111
Kismet-chan
The Chaotic Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Right up until the point where Yukimasa appeared I was really intrigued by the episode. Yukimasa himself didn't dampen my interest very much, but as soon as Miyuki opened his mouth, things started going downhill in a hurry.

The first eleven minutes really lured me into Izumiko's world. Beautiful visuals. Introverted girl with really nice friends who are willing to defend her. Wild, god-like powers that the girl doesn't understand herself, nor can she seem to control them.

And then they gotta turn all this wonderful stuff into the usual old crap. Can't say I wasn't disappointed.
All of this I absolutely agree with.

It started out JUST FINE. I had pawed through some of the posts in this thread beforehand. And as I watched it, I thought, "Hey, what're people talking about? It's actually not too shabby. I could get into this."

Yukimasa shows up. Kind of stereotypical for my tastes, but whatever. At least he doesn't act like as much of an ass as he looks. I can tolerate it.

Then Miyuki comes into the picture... What the actual fuck?

You cannot seriously be telling me that the entire beginning quarter or initial half of this series is going to be this same old "shy girl falls in love with a piece of shit" nonsense. His explanation for his attitude is that Izumiko's dull? That she doesn't do or think for herself enough? What exactly was he expecting, then? What kind of girl would he prefer to have seen? I have no idea how this kind of setup is going to explain itself in the next couple of episodes. There is nothing realistically justifiable for a character like that. And it better not give us any of that "Daddy beats me and/or doesn't love me enough" bullshit.

Wow, I have not been this angry at something that I've watched in a while. I almost feel offended, lmao.
__________________
Kismet-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 01:58   Link #112
Dr. Casey
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
And it better not give us any of that "Daddy beats me and/or doesn't love me enough" bullshit.
I think that would actually be a pretty interesting character point since it would be rather true to life. Abusive backgrounds often warp people into becoming pieces of shit in real life; my oldest sister spent much of the 90s with a physically/emotionally abusive boyfriend, who was majorly screwed up in the head from being beaten as a child himself.

That was an awesome flood of rage though, Kismet. You should come here every episode to go on a Miyuki rampage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly
Some people believe that all human babies are born little angels and have to learn bad behaviour. I don't. Miyuki seems to me to be the kind of baby that was born a little devil, and has to learn good behaviour.
Hmm, I think newborns are perfectly innocent blank slates. Someone that doesn't comprehend the very concepts of anger and sadness, or hurt and loss can't hold any capacity for malice.

I have a lot of thoughts on the nature vs. nurture argument, but it's off-topic and I'm sleepy. Suffice to say that I agree that human beings can become rotten from a very young age, albeit not quite as young as the first day of life.
Dr. Casey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 02:35   Link #113
Kismet-chan
The Chaotic Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I think that would actually be a pretty interesting character point since it would be rather true to life. Abusive backgrounds often warp people into becoming pieces of shit in real life.
I very much agree with this, actually!

But this is one time where I hope that it isn't really the case because the entire setup of Miyuki's introduction and his "father" was just so awkward and... I don't know, it felt sort of forced to me. As if they were trying too hard to prove something. (Or not hard enough...?) If a lack of Daddy's lovin' is what has made Miyuki the way he is, I'll find it hard to take it seriously due to how it was presented.

That and I genuinely still want this show to be good! I'm hoping they'll give some sort of truly interesting reason for Miyuki's unfavorable personality... It's unlikely, but I'm trying to be positive.

Quote:
That was an awesome flood of rage though, Kismet. You should come here every episode to go on a Miyuki rampage.
I should! I mean, others found her flat and boring, but... I think Izumiko is so adorable for some reason. It's a crime to be so mean to a girl that cute!
__________________
Kismet-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 05:11   Link #114
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
When the 15 year old is the child being beaten, I think it's understandable that he might have issues that he takes out on other people -- especially if hes' getting beaten for not being a pod-person who blindly accepts whatever crazy cult these people belong to, and the person he's lashing out at is easily mistaken for a pod-person. I'm not saying the way he's acting is justified -- for one thing, we know Izumiko isn't a pod-person -- but nothing I've seen so far puts him into the irredeemable jerkass category.
As I also said - Miyuki is most likely not an irredeemable jerkass. These characters never are. (Which is not to say I want to see jerkass love interests, it's just that a twist on the old cliché would be nice.) A small amount of my currency says that their relationship is going to proceed the usual way: Izumiko will want to prove herself to Miyuki, Miyuki will realize Izumiko's inner values, they'll help each other get over their issues. and they'll both change for the better due to the other's influence as they learn to respect each other.

Which is nice and all but so very generic.
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 05:54   Link #115
-Sho-
~Omedetô~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
Psychologic , trauma , youth etc... explain this.
Well , for a first episode , it was interesting , both dad look like asshole lol
But the acting was a big too much to prove something.
-Sho- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 11:17   Link #116
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
How is Miyuki being received over at 2Chan and in Japan I wonder?

Outside Japan, I think he will be reviled as a rather abusive, possibly chauvinistic fellow.

Anyway, the first episode of RDG, especially until Miyuki showed up was very.. intriguing. Too bad it has all the markings of commercial failure written all over it. I might be surprised, but aren't they up against a very strong field this season? I think RDG is going get stomped hard in the BD and DVD sales.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 12:44   Link #117
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I'm prob the only one who cheered Miyuki's dad. Any other time, the dad in an anime would have let the rebellious son walk all over himself. Not this guy. Miyuki got tough love.

Miyuki: I refuse!!!! <raaaggggge x 9999>
Dad: Miyuki, you think I'm going to fight with you? Son, let me introduce you to the edge of this cliff.
Miyuki: ...
Dad: Oops, you fell. <evil laugh>
Miyuki: <battered and bloodied moments later> Well, I can't whip my dad. So, I'll just make Izumiko's life miserable like the total loser that I am.

He was born in the family. For all we know, he dad could be head of the family or close to it. He should have known what he was getting into. He's also probably in reality her husband candidate.

-----

If we did the math, Miyuki was born when his dad was 18. I wonder if Miyuki also was a product of an arranged marriage.
__________________

Last edited by orion; 2013-03-18 at 12:55.
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 12:47   Link #118
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
Exactly, that's what I mean when I said miyuki should have understood better her situation coming from the same family. To tie in with above, the system might be morally repulsive but that does not equate to her being morally offensive as she is as much a "victim" of it as him.
Why would Miyuki see Izumiko as a victim? From his perspective, all she has to do is ask and she gets what she wants. Yukimasa made it clear that since Izumiko didn't want to transfer schools, he was going to do all in his power to grant her wish and allow her to stay where she wanted, at the expense of Miyuki's own desires.

The people around Izumiko were surprised when she cut her hair, but there were no negative consequences for her because of it (aside from that asshole at school remarking on it). I'm pretty sure from Miyuki's perspective at this point, the only person Izumiko is a victim of is her own passivity.

Of course, all of this is just from the information given in the first episode. No one here thinks there might be more that's going on here than meets the eye? If not, this is certainly a strange image to have in the opening, with the way people are jumping the gun and assuming even their childhood relationship must have been miserable...
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 12:54   Link #119
totoum
Gamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to totoum
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
He was born in the family. He should have known what he was getting into. He's also probably in reality her husband candidate.
You act as if he chose to be born in that family, it's one thing to say " he should have known what he was getting into" when someone someone has a choice,that's understandable but saying it when someone doesn't have a choice to begin with is pointless.
__________________
totoum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-18, 12:59   Link #120
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
You act as if he chose to be born in that family, it's one thing to say " he should have known what he was getting into" when someone someone has a choice,that's understandable but saying it when someone doesn't have a choice to begin with is pointless.
Then you make the best of your situation.

He doesn't have a bad one. The clan is obviously rich and has a supernatural background which means he has responsibilities and he's prob been trained for it. The girl is cute. He's just the bodyguard and not the fiance for right now.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fantasy, school life, seinen, shoujo

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.