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Old 2013-03-29, 06:24   Link #161
Kismet-chan
The Chaotic Dreamer
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilo Hello View Post
Don't know why no-one else in this thread picked that up. Poor critical thinking? Poor socialization?
I wouldn't be so quick to make that generalization.

While I cannot speak for others, I know I definitely had the possibility in mind that Miyuki might've just been rubbed the wrong way prior to his arrival. Not everyone takes having a shitty day or a shitty life well, obviously. I'm sure that others have thought of this, too. But there's only so much that can be speculated with only two episodes out so far and not much depth into Miyuki's backstory and/or thought process yet.
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Old 2013-03-29, 06:58   Link #162
FredFriendly
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I suppose one could argue that Miyuki's toned down attitude in this episode is closer to his normal state, and that he's such an asshat in the first episode because he'd had a shitty day and was just a couple hours removed from being beaten up by his dad.
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
While I cannot speak for others, I know I definitely had the possibility in mind that Miyuki might've just been rubbed the wrong way prior to his arrival. Not everyone takes having a shitty day or a shitty life well, obviously. I'm sure that others have thought of this, too. But there's only so much that can be speculated with only two episodes out so far and not much depth into Miyuki's backstory and/or thought process yet.
I would argue that the attitude of the little kid we saw during the flashback in episode one, pelting a defenseless young girl with rocks, is closer to Miyuki's normal, natural state. Kids tend to follow the examples set by their parents, and just look who he had to "look up to." As it is now, Miyuki is doing a damn good job of following in his father's footsteps. Unless he has the brains, courage, and humility to do so, he will probably never break out of that mold.
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Old 2013-03-29, 10:31   Link #163
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
I would argue that the attitude of the little kid we saw during the flashback in episode one, pelting a defenseless young girl with rocks, is closer to Miyuki's normal, natural state.
Uh, they were tennis balls. Not that it makes it okay for him to throw things at her regardless, but you seem to be projecting quite a bit onto Miyuki that isn't supported by the actual narrative.

At this point, it's pretty obvious that, A) Miyuki remembers more about her than he claims, and B) the flashback is supposed to be misleading.
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Old 2013-03-29, 10:59   Link #164
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Uh, they were tennis balls. Not that it makes it okay for him to throw things at her regardless, but you seem to be projecting quite a bit onto Miyuki that isn't supported by the actual narrative.

At this point, it's pretty obvious that, A) Miyuki remembers more about her than he claims, and B) the flashback is supposed to be misleading.
Oops! My mistake. I should probably get a better pair of glasses. Otherwise, I don't see that I'm really "projecting quite a bit onto Miyuki" as you claim. Also, I would like to know how you support your claims A) and B) as I don't see it that way. I would agree that he may be starting to remember her, but would also argue that he didn't at their first meeting in episode one. At that point it seems as if he's the type of guy who only concerns himself with himself, and that everyone else is insignificant and not worth remembering. As far as B) goes, I got no clue as to how you arrive at that conclusion.
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Old 2013-03-29, 11:49   Link #165
musouka
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Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Oops! My mistake. I should probably get a better pair of glasses. Otherwise, I don't see that I'm really "projecting quite a bit onto Miyuki" as you claim. Also, I would like to know how you support your claims A) and B) as I don't see it that way. I would agree that he may be starting to remember her, but would also argue that he didn't at their first meeting in episode one. At that point it seems as if he's the type of guy who only concerns himself with himself, and that everyone else is insignificant and not worth remembering. As far as B) goes, I got no clue as to how you arrive at that conclusion.
Simple. At first he claims that he only remembers her braids, but he instantly knows what she's talking about when she reminds him that he bullied her the last time he was here. His reactions to her are also extremely personalized for someone he doesn't know very well. Even if he does "only remember the braids", they obviously have severely negative connotations for him for some yet unknown reason. (If I had to read into things, I'd say it's "disappointment with how she turned out" but there's waaay too little information to say that concretely.)

As for the flashback of him hitting her with the balls, it's misleading in the sense of, we're supposed to be questioning why he's doing it. What are his motivations? Why is he so angry she won't "pick it up"? How does this contrast with the flash of them obviously happy as kids in the opening? She characterized it as "bullying", but he characterized it as "helping". It looks like bullying to the outside person, so why does he claim he was trying to help her?

The series is trying to build up a sense of mystery both for the plot and the characters.
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Old 2013-03-29, 19:22   Link #166
LuxorMG
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Anyone want to guess what the extent of her "electronics" curse is? She could use normal phones (I'm assuming landline, or something old like a rotary dial), airplanes, and cars without problems. Yet, she can't use computers, feature phones, electric subways, or the turnstile.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:32   Link #167
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Uh, they were tennis balls. Not that it makes it okay for him to throw things at her regardless, but you seem to be projecting quite a bit onto Miyuki that isn't supported by the actual narrative.

At this point, it's pretty obvious that, A) Miyuki remembers more about her than he claims, and B) the flashback is supposed to be misleading.
A little girl getting hit with tennis balls isn't that much misleading. It's still abuse.

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Originally Posted by Hilo Hello View Post
Yeah, that was my impression.

Don't know why no-one else in this thread picked that up. Poor critical thinking? Poor socialization?
Lots of us have bad days. Dissing your parent who also happens to be a "running the show" in front of other family members isn't going to get any awards nor is it justifiable. Especially for a 14 yo. His objections were duly noted and he has no power to change it. Common sense is something he had to learn the hard way.
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Old 2013-03-29, 22:19   Link #168
Julio C
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I just watched the first two episodes. What the hell did I watched? What is the show trying to be? Despite all of this, I find this show very interesting. It has that vibe that Another setup and yet it's not a horror. There is a lot of mystery and confusion, but it flows very well so far. I'm going to keep watching it. I really like the main girl though, finally someone who is not all genki all the time.
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Old 2013-03-30, 06:10   Link #169
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Simple. At first he claims that he only remembers her braids, but he instantly knows what she's talking about when she reminds him that he bullied her the last time he was here. His reactions to her are also extremely personalized for someone he doesn't know very well. Even if he does "only remember the braids", they obviously have severely negative connotations for him for some yet unknown reason. (If I had to read into things, I'd say it's "disappointment with how she turned out" but there's waaay too little information to say that concretely.)
Maybe he remembers "the braids" because he got his butt whooped for throwing things at her. Indeed, perhaps, you, too, may be reading too much into what little info we've been presented with.

Quote:
As for the flashback of him hitting her with the balls, it's misleading in the sense of, we're supposed to be questioning why he's doing it. What are his motivations? Why is he so angry she won't "pick it up"? How does this contrast with the flash of them obviously happy as kids in the opening? She characterized it as "bullying", but he characterized it as "helping". It looks like bullying to the outside person, so why does he claim he was trying to help her?
Are you sure that you're not reading too much into this, as well? My simple interpretation of that scene was to show us why he's such a jerk and a bully now: he was a jerk and a bully 10 years ago, and he still is one (and we will all rejoice when, through his association with Izumiko, he becomes an upright, wonderful person). Besides, isn't that the sort of thing bullies say to there victims: "I'm doing this for your own good. You'll be thanking me later."

Quote:
The series is trying to build up a sense of mystery both for the plot and the characters.
I can't deny that it is doing a good job at that. It certainly is still a mystery to me the sudden change, abrupt change in the relationship between Izumiko and Miyuki. As for the plot, the mystery, so far, seems to be whether or not this isn't just another stupid love story disguised as a fantastic, unworldly drama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxorMG View Post
Anyone want to guess what the extent of her "electronics" curse is? She could use normal phones (I'm assuming landline, or something old like a rotary dial), airplanes, and cars without problems. Yet, she can't use computers, feature phones, electric subways, or the turnstile.
I would guess it supposedly has something to do with brain waves. Old-fashioned, wired land-line telephones are strictly electrical with no active electronics at all, as opposed to cell/mobile/smart-phones which are entirely electronic and, again supposedly, can affect brain waves. Computers, even non-wireless ones, have a lot of "waves" emanating from them so I suppose she can interact or interfere with them. Then it gets inconsistent. Cars are now heavily computerized, not to say airplanes, as well, so why she doesn't affect them must an anime quirk, solely for the necessity of getting her from here to there in the minimum amount of time (it would take a very long time to get to Tokyo by foot, or even by horseback). Why she affected the turnstile or the subway (and not cars or airplanes) is one of those mysteries that may, or may not, be explained by the end of the series.
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Old 2013-03-30, 06:54   Link #170
TheEroKing
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Old 2013-03-30, 14:11   Link #171
Kaoru Chujo
Yuuki Aoi
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
...As for the plot, the mystery, so far, seems to be whether or not this isn't just another stupid love story disguised as a fantastic, unworldly drama....
Aha! Is this part of the problem? Do you just not like romance anime? Or are there some you judge acceptable? Personally, I like almost all romance anime, to some extent. That's my own happy "problem," lol.

As for whether the characters are consistent enough, I say yes. It's a principle of screenwriting that you put some contradictions in your characters' natures. That makes them more like real people.

My own reading is that the guy had (or wanted) his own cool teenage life with other cool guys and girls and does not much like being sent to the boonies to babysit this apparently character-free mouse whom people say is some kind of special being. Perhaps what he observed in the last episode will begin to change his mind.

Yes, he's a bit of a bully to her (as his father is to him...). Her inability to do almost anything frustrates him and he responds in an inappropriate way.
Spoiler for ep3:
Great mystical insert song by Hayami Saori in this ep.
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Old 2013-03-30, 18:14   Link #172
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Aha! Is this part of the problem? Do you just not like romance anime? Or are there some you judge acceptable? Personally, I like almost all romance anime, to some extent. That's my own happy "problem," lol.
Don't be silly. I love a good romance anime. My introduction to anime (and still one of my favorites) was Kimagure Orange Road, the quintessential high school romance love triangle. All 48 episodes and two movies, which I've watched more than twice. I even suffered through all 96 episodes of Maison Ikkoku just to see K.... and G.... get married (though I won't do that again).

I do try to like most romance series, but, yes, there are some that I just don't like, and they are mostly because of the attitude of the main guy. For instance, I really wanted to like the recent anime about a regular girl who became an earth god (names withheld to protect the unspoiled, though why I bother I don't know, the moderators don't seem to care about blatant spoilers), having really liked the girl from the little of the manga I had read. But the anime (and presumably the source) had the same problem for me as this series appears to be headed: innocent, sweet girl falls in love with cruel, abusive yet handsome "protector." Ugh, I say. Not another one.

Quote:
As for whether the characters are consistent enough, I say yes.
Are you saying this solely based on the first two episodes, or retrospectively because you know more than I do about this series (as apparent from your episode 3 spoiler which I accidentally, unwillingly read as part of quoting your post)? You really didn't find the discrepancies in their behaviours from the end of the first episode to the beginning of the second the littlest bit jarring?

Quote:
It's a principle of screenwriting that you put some contradictions in your characters' natures. That makes them more like real people.
Oh, yes, I agree with this, in general, but not specific to the above mentioned discrepancies.

Quote:
My own reading is that the guy had (or wanted) his own cool teenage life with other cool guys and girls and does not much like being sent to the boonies to babysit this apparently character-free mouse whom people say is some kind of special being. Perhaps what he observed in the last episode will begin to change his mind.
At least we agree on this. Character-free mouse sounds like a futuristic computer input device that you can mold into your own desired shape. I wonder what shape Izumiko will end up as, and who will do the molding?

Quote:
Yes, he's a bit of a bully to her (as his father is to him...). Her inability to do almost anything frustrates him and he responds in an inappropriate way.
And we agree about this (though "a bit" sounds like you're being very forgiving with him). So I guess our biggest disagreement is about the probable romantic angle.

Time to go watch episode three...
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:12   Link #173
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion
Lots of us have bad days. Dissing your parent who also happens to be a "running the show" in front of other family members isn't going to get any awards nor is it justifiable. Especially for a 14 yo. His objections were duly noted and he has no power to change it. Common sense is something he had to learn the hard way.
Uh... do you mean that it's inexcusable for a child to say something rude to a physically abusive parent? I would say more blame falls upon the abuser rather than the kid who says something snarky after a lifetime of mistreatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly
Don't be silly. I love a good romance anime. My introduction to anime (and still one of my favorites) was Kimagure Orange Road, the quintessential high school romance love triangle. All 48 episodes and two movies, which I've watched more than twice. I even suffered through all 96 episodes of Maison Ikkoku just to see K.... and G.... get married (though I won't do that again).
Aww. Kyoko rejecting Mitaka did sting (way to string a guy along for six years that you never believed you might be romantically interested in, you black widow), but Godai's a good guy. :p I've never watched Kimagure Orange Road, but I've always vaguely intended to. I love me some '80s anime, and it's neat having anime protagonists born in the 1960s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly
And we agree about this (though "a bit" sounds like you're being very forgiving with him).
I think it's more that Chujo is judging their relationship based on the second and third episodes, where Miyuki hasn't really mistreated her (two episodes that now compose the majority of the series). He was undeniably abusive in the first episode, yeah. The tennis ball throwing was cruel, though I can of course overlook that on account of being a toddler... he does lose points for trying to justify the act here in the present, though. 'Tough love' is stupid more often than not, and this certainly isn't one of the exceptions.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:42   Link #174
orion
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Uh... do you mean that it's inexcusable for a child to say something rude to a physically abusive parent? I would say more blame falls upon the abuser rather than the kid who says something snarky after a lifetime of mistreatment.
The kid was rude before he "fell off a cliff". If he knew his dad was abusive, then don't egg him on. Again, it boils down to common sense. Yeah, he gave up his lifestyle in Tokyo for duty. The kid's also a monk and he prob knew what he was getting into.

And tennis balls hurt. He knew he was hurting her and was daring her to tell on him. He only got away with it because Isumiko wasn't taught to beat up abusive kids.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:46   Link #175
Dr. Casey
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Huh. So this is what they call blaming the victim.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:48   Link #176
orion
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Huh. So this is what they call blaming the victim.
Well if you're expecting me to be sympathetic to Miyuki, don't hold your breath. My family teaches you to beat the crap out of abusive boys at that age to prevent further problems down the line if you're a kid.

If Izumiko had taken that ball and hit him in the face with it, it would have solved her problem with him when she became 14 yo.
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:50   Link #177
Dr. Casey
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Did you grow up with Vernon and Petunia Dursley or something?
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Old 2013-03-30, 20:51   Link #178
orion
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Did you grow up with Vernon and Petunia Dursley or something?
Totally don't know where those places are. So, no.

*looks it up* Oh a Harry Potter reference. Obviously not.
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:16   Link #179
bones
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Well if you're expecting me to be sympathetic to Miyuki, don't hold your breath. My family teaches you to beat the crap out of abusive boys at that age to prevent further problems down the line if you're a kid.

If Izumiko had taken that ball and hit him in the face with it, it would have solved her problem with him when she became 14 yo.
I'm not getting all this talk about Miyuki being abusive, I agree that he was bullying her but she could have solved that instantly if she had bothered to assert herself.
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:50   Link #180
Dr. Casey
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One's response to being abused doesn't have any bearing on the other person's status as an abuser. Like, if I threw rocks at Kismet-chan for fun and she ran away crying ala Izumiko rather than stand up for herself, I would be the one at fault for being a jerk. Even if you think Izumiko should have defended herself against the abuse (which I think is entirely too much to ask of a shy personality being bullied by someone much stronger and more abrasive than herself), that doesn't do anything to change the fact that there is indeed abuse at play.
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