AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-26, 11:02   Link #1301
Randrak42
ANEGO Worshiper
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
This mediocre show doesn't deserve even a single rewatch IMHO, barring the visuals which were excellent.
Well your opinion is your opinion which may differ from others innit?

I personally loved the series and believe it to be quite good (plot, animation, acting, music and so on) far above the level of mediocre. There are, as with everything, good and bad bits of the series but the good seem to greatly outweigh the bad. Though I do not put it at the same level as the manga due to the missing arcs (which help us connect to the characters far more) and some other changes made (Teiichi for example differs a bit from manga in terms of personality at crucial times), I also understand that the fact that they only had 12 episodes to work with, making it impossible to add the extra arcs and some changes are needed to make it work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
On that note, I will never understand people who rewatch the same episode many times in a row. Don't you get bored watching the same scenes again and again? I'd rather spend my limited time watching new shows, but that's just me...
Hmmm, to each their own, it's not something you can really explain. Personally I also like to rewatch certain episodes or movies. If I really like an episode I will rewatch it a couple of times within a couple of days after the first viewing and then some more when I'm bored. Sometimes it's all about certain scenes, for example I have a huge list of scenes from One Piece that I watch several time a week. Even in manga, I sometimes go reread chapters. Hell, I've played Little Busters (VN) 4 times...
Some people like to rewatch things and relive the emotions they felt back at the start. Sure it won't have the same as the first time you watch it but at times it's damn close.
__________________

Spoiler for Top 10 Harem Protagonists:
Randrak42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 11:07   Link #1302
Cosmic Eagle
森羅万象滅尽滅相
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 卍曼荼羅
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
This mediocre show doesn't deserve even a single rewatch IMHO, barring the visuals which were excellent.
On that note, I will never understand people who rewatch the same episode many times in a row. Don't you get bored watching the same scenes again and again? I'd rather spend my limited time watching new shows, but that's just me...
I will rewatch it.

Many many times.

The same way I rewatch all my favorite stuff
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 11:51   Link #1303
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 34
Well, I can understand some of the criticisms with regard to the ending of the series and its story structure. I see the view where critics are coming from, but at the same time while those points are there, I can't help but be quite impressed and satisfied with the overall product.

Like I mentioned before, the stellar art direction in particular is a big plus for me. Visuals are a complementary clash of light and dark colours, high contrast and overlooming shadows to set mood and tone. The music fits well into each scene, and the voice acting carries just enough weight for every situation. I guess I haven't watched enough ghost-themed anime, and perhaps there are other examples out there that are similar to this show, but I believe the direction they took for this story in particular—with its blend of horror, drama and comedy—was the right choice all around.

As for the arguments with regard to the ending, I for one expected a bittersweet ending from the very beginning. Never mind the happy carefree moments in the show, or the romance and drama between characters. Never mind even, if the goal of the characters isn't to exorcise the school of its various mysteries and resident ghost. The main heroine is a ghost, and all past stories that are of a similar bent typically and predictably conclude in such a fashion. It was simply the 'right' way to end the story as if it already wrote itself.

With that said, I wouldn't say that I immediately reacted positively to the ending. For sure, I also wondered if I had been cheated of the ending I thought this story should have had, but just as relentlessflame has said, the show itself has been a story of challenges to the seemingly problematic relationship between the main characters. The fact that Yuuko is a ghost is simply one of them. The latter episodes focus on this heavily, from pursuing her shattered memories to resolving her past, and finally the questionable reversal of her fate in the very end.

And I like it. It's simply one of those things where the payoff in the end sealed the series for me. I don't see it as a betrayal of my expectations of a romantic ghost story, but rather as a fitting conclusion to an entertaining one. And in the end, that's what matters to me the most.


On another note, what's with Kirie making those overdramatic poses? Is there something I'm missing here...? Like a joke or something?
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 12:01   Link #1304
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
On that note, I will never understand people who rewatch the same episode many times in a row. Don't you get bored watching the same scenes again and again? I'd rather spend my limited time watching new shows, but that's just me...
Well, this is sort of like asking why I have art hanging on my wall; don't I get bored just looking at the same thing? But if you have an emotional connection to the subject matter, it can still be beautiful no matter how many times you experience it. That's anime as art. If it's just something to be ingested quickly before we move on to the next thing, are we really appreciating it as art, or is it just a transient experience soon forgotten? This is also why I collect anime on DVD and Blu-Ray; they're mementos that mark the connection I've made to shows I love. This show had a number of episodes and scenes that I consider beautiful from an artistic point of view -- the combination of visuals, music, and voice acting come together in a way that's both memorable and remarkable. So particularly for those episodes and scenes, rewatching it is its own reward.

Of course, it's not like I just sit there with the same thing on loop either -- I don't have very much time to watch anime as it is. But I'd rather take that limited time focusing on things I enjoy, rather than just trying to get in as many new experiences as possible. (I only generally watch a few anime each season, and they're all favourites. If I don't love it, I just won't get around to watching it.) I'm not trying to say that the latter approach is wrong by any means... but it just isn't my way.

I would also be remiss if I didn't point out that you've spent a lot more time discussing the episode here on this forum than it would have taken you to rewatch it.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 14:18   Link #1305
White Manju Bun
Mad Hatter
*Author
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Shibuya Psychic Research
Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post


On another note, what's with Kirie making those overdramatic poses? Is there something I'm missing here...? Like a joke or something?
She totally reminded out of something from Sailor Moon

I'm half and half on the ending. 11 was really good, I was glad Yuuko finally made peace with Shadow!Yuuko. The events in 12 I saw coming and really would have prefered it if Yuuko has just disappeared. I knew once Niiya walked into the Club room she'd be back. Not saying it wasnt done well, again the animation and visual display in this anime has been great, I just didn't like it.
__________________
Pandora HeartsManju's Stuff
"I will always remember
when the Doctor was me."
- 11th Doctor.

Sig by TheEroKing
White Manju Bun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 17:33   Link #1306
bumbayker
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In the middle of nowhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Well, the threat of Yuuko disappearing is implicit in her condition of being a ghost. This is a girl who died 60 years ago we are talking about. Her very presence in this world is unnatural.
Your point? Yuuko's presence may be unnatural but her feelings and relationship with Teiichi are as natural as any male or female falling in love. Their relationship is indeed abnormal since Yuuko is a ghost. But by no means is it unnatural to care and love for someone whom you consider as a real living person. As relentlessflame already pointed out, the plot revolved in finding out Yuuko's death and resolving whatever issues pertaining it and not for her to rest in peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
I don't find this to be an issue.
So why are you being so vocally against the anime's ending when you claim you don't find it to be an issue? You're contradicting yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
In the bittersweet ending the "sweet" part is that Yuuko finally finds peace and ascends to heaven. You can end the show with Teiichi praying on Yuuko's tomb and promising her to live on.

There are many other possibilities to have a decent finale without Yuuko remaining in this world.
One possibility I had in mind is the "reincarnation" ending: 13 years later, Teiichi becomes a teacher in the same middle school and on the very first day he meets a girl identical to Yuuko.
Another possibility is Yuuko giving the green light to her grand-niece Kirie to date Teiichi in her stead.
And here you are imposing what would be considered a better end for the anime. Everyone who wanted a "bittersweet ending" has his/her own version. Like it or not, it is not you, me, or the rest of the fanbase that determines what would be the proper end. If you want a different end go read the fanfics when they're released. But it won't change the fact that those are not the real anime end. You may also want to wait for the manga's end but chances are there would be similarities.

And seriously, Teiichi ending up with Kirie or another girl that looks like Yuuko in the future has to be one of the worst ends. Why? Because it utterly cheapens his relationship with Yuuko and likes her only at face value. Teiichi loves Yuuko for everything who she is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
I don't appreciate when an episode spends 3/4 of its running time mourning a character who is then immediately resurrected. What was the point?
The first 15 - 20 minutes dramatized Teiichi and Yuuko's "final moments" together. The mourning only happened right after Yuuko disappeared completely. The point is it was emphasizing the feeling of loss of a lover and absolute bliss of her returning to your arms again. And FYI Yuuko wasn't resurrected at all, just didn't go to heaven/get reincarnated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
This mediocre show doesn't deserve even a single rewatch IMHO, barring the visuals which were excellent.
On that note, I will never understand people who rewatch the same episode many times in a row. Don't you get bored watching the same scenes again and again? I'd rather spend my limited time watching new shows, but that's just me...
So why did you watch the entire series if you considered it mediocre hmm? Sounds to me like you judged the entire show by your reaction to the ending alone.

And as relentlessflame has also stated that we watch the same scenes over again because we like to re-experience those moments we enjoy and cherish. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Last edited by bumbayker; 2012-06-26 at 17:45.
bumbayker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 19:01   Link #1307
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbayker View Post
And here you are imposing what would be considered a better end for the anime. Everyone who wanted a "bittersweet ending" has his/her own version. Like it or not, it is not you, me, or the rest of the fanbase that determines what would be the proper end. If you want a different end go read the fanfics when they're released. But it won't change the fact that those are not the real anime end. You may also want to wait for the manga's end but chances are there would be similarities.

And seriously, Teiichi ending up with Kirie or another girl that looks like Yuuko in the future has to be one of the worst ends. Why? Because it utterly cheapens his relationship with Yuuko and likes her only at face value. Teiichi loves Yuuko for everything who she is.
Well, don't be too harsh or get too defensive. I think he's perfectly entitled to his own opinion about what ending he'd prefer too, and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course there is no one right answer, only preferences.

Personally, I think a bittersweet ending could actually have worked just fine (and I have liked a number of romance anime with those sorts of endings, even though they can be a bit hard to rewatch), but I think that both a) they would have had to have foreshadowed the disappearance end-goal earlier in the story (and not just based on the assumption that it's obvious), and b) they would have had to change a lot of Episode 12 (and maybe earlier episodes) so that there's a clearer bridge to Teiichi's future without Yuuko. Yuuko's disappearance would have to have been an end-result that Teiichi clearly anticipated (and dreaded), rather than a "this is so sudden" twist. Then they could face the end together and really not have any regrets because they had more time to mentally prepare. For people who say they should have cut to black before the credits (or equivalent)... I can't help but think that would have rung a bit hollow when you consider the story on the whole.

Perhaps it's ironic that Teiichi had never really thought of Yuuko's condition as "fatal" because she was already dead. But of course, he's still in Middle School, so I'm not sure it's fair to really expect him to think about the inevitability of death... even in a ghost story. Strange how that works.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 19:42   Link #1308
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 35
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
Well, the ending did not justify all the changes in the original plot IMHO. Nonetheless, the anime looked great, had certain great episodes, but the overall storytelling and direction were average.
Malkuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 19:58   Link #1309
Marcus H.
オオオオオオオオオオ
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Although I have been epically spoiled by the discussion here, (Don't worry, I jumped straight to the sharks yesterday and I just started downloading the finale a few minutes ago.) I think the last episode reminds me, alongside with the overall plot of the series, with another that just seems to share a similar story: GOSICK, my very first favorite anime series.

Spoiler for thoughts on Gosick:


I don't know why it's preferred to have bittersweet endings in stories like this as opposed to happy ones like in Tasogare Otome x Amnesia.
__________________
Chat with the Animesuki forum members on Discord! Drop me or RRW a PM for the link!

Spring 2016 Complete!: Gakusen Toshi Asterisk S2, Flying Witch and Bakuon!.
LN Challenge Spring 2016: Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai to Omotta? and Hundred.

Summer 2016: Kono Bijutsu-bu ni wa Mondai ga Aru!, Qualidea Code, Amanchu! and New Game.


Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 37. Completed: 271. Plan to watch: 36.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 23:05   Link #1310
FlareKnight
User of the "Fast Draw"
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Send a message via AIM to FlareKnight Send a message via MSN to FlareKnight
I agree that a bittersweet ending probably would have worked just fine. But sometimes I really do get sick of all the bittersweet stuff out there and having a full out positive ending isn't bad at all. And really it can make sense for me. After all the crap that Yuuko had to go through getting a happier conclusion is something I can get behind. Maybe it helped that I fell behind and watched the last few episodes in a row so that tragedy hit me right away and made me want something better to happen.

It was one heck of a ride. Really I think if a series is going to go their own way with the story then do it well and I think they managed that here.
__________________
FlareKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-26, 23:26   Link #1311
GundamZZ
残念美人
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Yuko almost killed Teichi, and they almost happily ever after. ^_^
I agree that a living couple is better than a dead couple. It's still better than staying apart even the love is mutual. The anime is not for having the regret for the rest of life scenario.
__________________
流麗のヒステリア Hysteria of flowing beautifully
三つ腕のリヒティ Lichty of three arms
重剣のクロエ Chloe of giant sword
天啓のシスティーナ Sistina of Apocalypse
愛憎のロクサーヌ Roxanne of distinguished love and hate
万有のルテーシア Lutécia of everything
塵喰いのカサンドラ Cassandra of eating dust
GundamZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 01:50   Link #1312
Gohan78
Awakened One
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbayker View Post
So why are you being so vocally against the anime's ending when you claim you don't find it to be an issue? You're contradicting yourself.
Here I was referring to this quote from relentlessflame:
Quote:
You could also argue that having Yuuko disappear at the end cheapens all the hurdles they overcame so far
I meant that I don't believe that having Yuuko disappear at the end would cheapen their efforts to reunite her with her shadow self. On the contrary, it is her reappearance at the end that cheapens the emotional farewell they just had.

Quote:
And here you are imposing what would be considered a better end for the anime. Everyone who wanted a "bittersweet ending" has his/her own version. Like it or not, it is not you, me, or the rest of the fanbase that determines what would be the proper end.
I am not imposing anything, I am stating my opinion. I believe it's my right to say that I disliked this ending and to suggest an alternative.

Quote:
And seriously, Teiichi ending up with Kirie or another girl that looks like Yuuko in the future has to be one of the worst ends. Why? Because it utterly cheapens his relationship with Yuuko and likes her only at face value. Teiichi loves Yuuko for everything who she is.
Let's say that Yuuko, instead of being a ghost, had a terminal condition. Do you believe that Teiichi had to remain attached to her memory for all of his life? I don't think so and I think that Yuuko herself wouldn't want that. In fact she asked Teiichi to forget her!

Quote:
And FYI Yuuko wasn't resurrected at all, just didn't go to heaven/get reincarnated.
Now you are nit-picking. I know she wasn't resurrected, I was generalizing. For all intents and purposes her reappearance is akin to a resurrection.

Quote:
So why did you watch the entire series if you considered it mediocre hmm? Sounds to me like you judged the entire show by your reaction to the ending alone.
FIY I had voted this series on MAL a 6/10 until the final episode. I had to subtract 1 point for the unimaginative ending, going to a final judgment of 5/10. So yeah, the ending kinda ruined the series for me. I think the ending is really important and it can make or break a show. Well, Dusk Maiden was already barely average for me. I had hoped that the finale could redeem the series straying away from the cliche. Sadly it wasn't so.
__________________
Tibi, magnum Innominandum,
signa stellarum nigrarum
et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim.
(De Vermis Mysteriis)
Gohan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 01:55   Link #1313
Marcus H.
オオオオオオオオオオ
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Quote:
I don't know why it's preferred to have bittersweet endings in stories like this as opposed to happy ones like in Tasogare Otome x Amnesia.
I would have to echo my thoughts on bittersweet endings in ghost stories here.

I mean, yes, it is true that a ghost and a living person cannot have an affair or is doomed to be separated, but can't we avoid that scenario for this series? I mean, it's cliched already. Can't we give Silver Link. praise for actually pulling off an unrealistic but relieving ending to their love story?
__________________
Chat with the Animesuki forum members on Discord! Drop me or RRW a PM for the link!

Spring 2016 Complete!: Gakusen Toshi Asterisk S2, Flying Witch and Bakuon!.
LN Challenge Spring 2016: Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai to Omotta? and Hundred.

Summer 2016: Kono Bijutsu-bu ni wa Mondai ga Aru!, Qualidea Code, Amanchu! and New Game.


Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 37. Completed: 271. Plan to watch: 36.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 03:37   Link #1314
JokerD
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rewatch episode 2 since Yuuko's comments about shadow Yuuko choosing Teiichi was bothering me. In the scenes were Teichi has flashbacks, you do indeed see a black hand touching Teichi. This should be shadow Yuuko.
Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out...
JokerD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:05   Link #1315
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Can't we give Silver Link. praise for actually pulling off an unrealistic but relieving ending to their love story?
Well, of course there's nothing realistic about a ghost in the first place. People have decided by convention that a ghost should disappear once their worldly regrets have been resolved, and the episode teased the same belief/convention. I think it's only because it teased at that convention and didn't deliver on it that some people are disappointed. (Like I said before, they could have just ended with Episode 11 for all it mattered plot-wise, which would still have left the same door open. I think they still chose to deliver episode 12 because it made for a powerful episode, even if it didn't change the net result in the end.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Let's say that Yuuko, instead of being a ghost, had a terminal condition. Do you believe that Teiichi had to remain attached to her memory for all of his life? I don't think so and I think that Yuuko herself wouldn't want that. In fact she asked Teiichi to forget her!
I actually did think about this when I was writing my other post. If she had been terminally ill, the thought of "what will happen after she's gone" would have been a obvious recurring theme throughout the story. (For example, see Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora; great show, IMO.)

I think a key point the show was making here was that her disappearance wasn't entirely an inevitability. It was a possibility that Yuuko had chosen to embrace, and had resolved herself to (see again the conversation at the pool). Is her choosing to embrace "death", despite leaving a loved one behind, the right thing to do or not? Is it because she really wanted to rest in peace, or because she had (selfishly? well, without consulting him) decided that he would be better off moving on and falling in love with a "real girl" instead? I think you could really argue that all of Episode 12 was just Yuuko's selfishness the whole way through, but, by the same token, perhaps you might forgive her that selfishness since she had been troubled for so many years.

Death may be an inevitability, but that doesn't apply if you're already dead.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:21   Link #1316
Marcus H.
オオオオオオオオオオ
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Quote:
Well, of course there's nothing realistic about a ghost in the first place.
Touche.

JokerD: Destiny or not, it was shown even in the original manga that Shadow Yuuko was also the reason why Teiichi ended up in this story. It was heavily implied that Shadow Yuuko is already interested in Teiichi, although of course the reason might be different in the manga.
__________________
Chat with the Animesuki forum members on Discord! Drop me or RRW a PM for the link!

Spring 2016 Complete!: Gakusen Toshi Asterisk S2, Flying Witch and Bakuon!.
LN Challenge Spring 2016: Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai to Omotta? and Hundred.

Summer 2016: Kono Bijutsu-bu ni wa Mondai ga Aru!, Qualidea Code, Amanchu! and New Game.


Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 37. Completed: 271. Plan to watch: 36.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:30   Link #1317
Chaos2Frozen
Retroactive Momentum
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Digital World
Age: 27
Here's an idea ; Yuuko isn't exactly a 'traditional' ghost since the beginning- she doesn't float or goes through solid objects, she wears physical clothes and eats real food... Heck, I recall some people even speculated that she's actually a human that nobody noticed when this show first started.

For all we know Teiichi and Yuuko could make little ghost babies

That's right- let that thought sink in...
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:42   Link #1318
Randrak42
ANEGO Worshiper
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
Well...it is true that Yuuko is far from the conventional ghost type. Even the way people perceive her changes from person to person according to their expectations of what is before them.

I dunno about little ghost babies but having a relationship with such an unconventional ghost seems much easier than with a normal one.
__________________

Spoiler for Top 10 Harem Protagonists:
Randrak42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:49   Link #1319
TheEroKing
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Age: 30
Send a message via Skype™ to TheEroKing
Because you can touch her

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
For all we know Teiichi and Yuuko could make little ghost babies

That's right- let that thought sink in...
Ok, you me and the Tron should totally make a doujin group
__________________
TheEroKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-27, 04:52   Link #1320
Chaos2Frozen
Retroactive Momentum
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Digital World
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEroKing View Post
Ok, you me and the Tron should totally make a doujin group
Funny you should say that; I was thinking of expanding my [Endless Erotic Hell] fics...
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
horror, romance, shounen, slice-of-unlife, supernatural

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.