AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-09-14, 23:34   Link #2241
ChocoBar9
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
They've only mentioned it once or twice in passing. The last time being that the Independence movement had died down and that's it. All of that happened offscreen. For something so focal that they wasted a good chunk of the introductory arc, it got a quick couple of lines. It added nothing in the sense of the worldbuilding as nothing came of it.
It wasn't even that focal, it was something meant to introduce Japan and give insight to the world AO, not something used as a driving force from the plot much like the counter culture was in E7, didn't have a big impact on the plot but was there for worldbuilding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Nope. They've mentioned BBW in the sense of how it related to Gen Blue not Ivica in particular. Ivica's whole storyline and how it relates to BBW hasn't been touched yet. Try again.
Ivica has never been connected to the BBW to begin with, in fact Rebeckka is the only character with any close connection to BBW as this episode proves. Ivica was just a soldier Blanc wanted to hire for GB because of his connection to Eureka, where did you find anything in the story that connected him to BBW?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
So you admit that they didn't do jack with it?
Uhhh...I just told you what they did with it

She was a spy for the Allied Forces that looked like Elena
Elena killed her and started masquerading as her while conveying info to the Allied Forces
They found it it wasn't her

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
That's part of the problem as a whole in that they devoted singular episodes to characters and then not follow through with it. Same with Ivica and Fleur.
What are you talking about? Elena's episode was all about her realizing she was not Elena nor was she Miller and it's been the basis of her entire character that she's not from this world. Ivica dealt with his role as the Pied Piper and leading the children but along the way he realizes that there are more than one Pied Piper and he's not the one leading the way anymore and Fleur just may be one of the more developed characters on the show.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Just having the character physically show up but have no emotional component or relation to her prior incarnation is absolutely pointless and doesn't even work on a fanservice level.
This makes no damn sense, the character is still active and still playing the role in the plot regardless of how you actually feel about it so it's far from pointless considering she's there to show the effects the Quartz Gun had on the lives of Team Goldilocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Why did Truth not think he was a Secret even though his abilities would have pointed to that?
None of the Secrets have the same abilities and Truth's abilities aren't similar either. As explained in episode 19 he's a humanoid secret who forgot his own origin, the fact that we've never seen him interact with a Secret before episode 19 supports this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
How is Truth able to merge with theEND?
How about you watch the episode? That wasn't theEND. That was an archetype IFO-0 that Blanc had hid in the basement, Mama goes over this. As to how Truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Where did Naru get her powers?
From the incident with the Scub Burst 10 years prior to the storyline, they cultivated when she became one with the Scub in episode 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
What has Naru been doing?
She's doing the same thing the Scub were doing at the end of E7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Is Elena the girl that Eureka was seemingly pregnant with and where did Ao come from?
How did Elena end up on this side and why would Eureka not mention to Ao that he had a sister?
Where is Renton?
What was that destroyed Nirvash that we saw?
Where the hell did theEnd come from as it was destroyed in the first series?
Is it a time loop or a dimensional jump?
What is going on the other side(original world)?
Where did the Scub Coral come from and why haven't they learned anything from the original series?
Why is OG Nirvash around?
What the hell is the Quartz Gun?
What are the Quartz things anyway?
These aren't dropped plot threads, this is you asking arbitrary questions that haven't been answered yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
What are the Secrets?
Dimensional anti-bodies who came to removed the Scub and the Quartz

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-09-15 at 00:35.
ChocoBar9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-14, 23:41   Link #2242
Daniel Lind
ロック・オン!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
Maggie switch from "nobody at all" to "ace pilot in the US forces" was such a jump this new Maggie might as well have been new character. But okay, it's to show how the Gun works. Sure, I accept that. The problem here is that this script is struggling way too hard to make people attach to these hollow characters. But that's just an opinion, don't get all butthurt.

Ao didn't rationalize anything. He just did what he felt was better. Using the Quartz Gun is presented to him as almost entirely positive thing. It would save his mother. It would save the whole world from some catastrophe (ep12) and if possible, both worlds, because some crisis has also befallen Eureka's world as well - on that note, the show STILL can't make up its mind if it's travelling between worlds or between time periods and if both how it's all related. The only thing that prevents Ao from shooting the gun is an overemotional realization of "Oh no, I'm going to change the reality, that's kinda wrong I guess!" which is not only a ridiculously complex thought for a 13 year old boy on a quest to save his mother, it's also, again, presented as a POSITIVE thing. Ao even sees Goldilocks, well most of them, running a bakery and not fighting Secrets anymore. That's good right?
This kind of moral doubt is something I'd expect in a better story, but not with this setup.

So coming back to his random trip to the US forces, what was he thinking exactly? That if he gives up his extremely important (to him personally) machinery the US won't touch GenBleu anymore? Or that the US would find a better use to it? Is he like a saint or something? Or is he just stupid? And then he changed his mind.
That little occurence was random and stupid of him and goes back to Ao just lacking inner logic as a character.

But the worst thing is that 4 episodes out of 24 before the end we still don't have any visible goal post in the show for... any of the characters really.
You'd think it is "Use the Quartz to save Eureka", right? Seemingly not!
Daniel Lind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-14, 23:51   Link #2243
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
In other words they dropped it. Considering that nothing has come of the political turmoil other than that quick scene with Naru saving the miner, they haven't done anything with it.
No, it served its purpose and had no more relevance to the story. But, if you absolutely need resolution, then perhaps you should go back to the episode where Truth took Naru. Gazelle's father tells him, more or less, that everyone on the island took the deal with the Allied Forces and no one cares about independence except him. Even Gazelle is like, "there's more important things going on." It's not dropped, it's just over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
They never stated that he knew Rebecka was part of it and the fact that they haven't brought it up once that he might be uncomfortable working with the people is either lazy storytelling or they're unconcerned with the character. It's a huge tension point that is unresolved.
Then watch the end of episode 10. It's resolved. He knows, he doesn't care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
And that's it. There is no fallout from that. It's just a given fact, atleast with Fleur the accident led to her hating her father. Elena killed her and that's that. No inquiries or emotional stress from that(in fact she was more annoyed that Fleur didn't care enough to ask).
That whole episode was emotional stress. Maybe not particularly well done, but she spends the entire thing having a breakdown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
What focus as a character has she had? What new things have we learned that we didn't know prior?
She isn't a primary character, and since we knew nothing about her prior, literally anything is something. But, for something specific, complaining about fighting children and looking like the bad guy when civilians are around are character development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
He rationalized the leaving part as he thought it was in their best interests but it essentially took Elena and Fleur doing a quick 3 minute talk to convince him he was wrong. For a path he was seeming determined on, he changed his mind relatively quick.
He hardly seemed that dead-set to me, considering he spends most of it nervous as hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Considering he was still going to do it is a contrasting point. Especially when you compare his response to Elena when he confidently told her he wasn't going to use it.
I will grant that his turmoil wasn't adequately built up to. He is still echoing his views from earlier in the episode, though, so it is still consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
But the worst thing is that 4 episodes out of 24 before the end we still don't have any visible goal post in the show for... any of the characters really.
You'd think it is "Use the Quartz to save Eureka", right? Seemingly not!
It's actually "Complete the Quartz Gun and use it to save Eureka", which is so vague a goal neither we nor Ao himself has any idea what that actually entails.
__________________
morbosfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-14, 23:52   Link #2244
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Well said morbofist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
They've only mentioned it once or twice in passing. The last time being that the Independence movement had died down and that's it. All of that happened offscreen. For something so focal that they wasted a good chunk of the introductory arc, it got a quick couple of lines. It added nothing in the sense of the worldbuilding as nothing came of it. Now it's possible they might try to reintroduce it again, although I don't know how considering they stated the movement was over and done with. That's unlikely though as it's going to be focused primarily on Japan as a whole against the Allied forces.

Nope. They've mentioned BBW in the sense of how it related to Gen Blue not Ivica in particular. Ivica's whole storyline and how it relates to BBW hasn't been touched yet. Try again.

What about it? Elena killed Miller and masqueraded as her conveying information to the Allied Forces, just something to add as a layer to Elena's character and reveal that she wasn't what it seems.

So you admit that they didn't do jack with it? That's part of the problem as a whole in that they devoted singular episodes to characters and then not follow through with it. Same with Ivica and Fleur.

Just having the character physically show up but have no emotional component or relation to her prior incarnation is absolutely pointless and doesn't even work on a fanservice level. This is stuff Stephen King pulls. There is nothing inherently unique or even similar to her prior incarnation that you could say that the Quartz Gun shot progressed her character.
Morbofist is totally right on on this. And most of the show doesn't and never was going to take place just on Okinawa once he joined Gen Bleu so I'm not sure why you expect it to be tied into the main plot, it's tied into Ao's childhood and the global political situation which has played a major role throughout the story.

Just because it fell naturally into the background as Ao joined Gen Bleu and we naturally didn't see the island for a while as the show got more global and Ao was no longer on the island doesn't mean the issue was "dropped" nor that such political turmoil wasn't continuing on the island after he left, but we're seeing the world through Ao so why would he know what's going on on the island after he left it? It's even brought up each time we're back to the island making the island a living-breathing location that politically changes, and more importantly as morbofirst and ChocoBar said it also served a MAJOR dual purpose development for the situation surrounding how Ao grew up in his childhood and a basis for why he's matured faster than a normal 13 year old kid (or Renton for that matter) and how his mother (and him too) was persecuted for being a "foreigner" or in actuality an alien (actually half-alien ofcourse) and how Naru was really nice to him and a true friend as they grew up as kids climaxing in that memorable scene where she embraced him despite the adults all considering him a "bringer of death/disaster/etc." even after his hair changed color further hinting at his alien heritage since most character have "normal" hair colors in this world. It also introduced/demonstrated a major theme showing the gap between the older generation and their past burdens and the younger generation and that scene where Gazelle embodied how the younger generation think that the way the adults handle themselves and these types of issues are pathetic sometimes even after they get what they thought they want, which ties into one of the big overall themes of the show. Plus, this story is a global story once it got off the island and Ao joined Gen Bleu, did you expect them to only focus on this one country after he left? Part of the goal was probably to make Okinawa and the world feel like a real living part of a real living world with real political hot issues and by extension the politics brought up when addressing the political maneuverings of the rest of the countries as the Ao went out into the world. And these are important as they've come to the forefront on multiple occasions and are doing so again.

What do you mean they didn't do jack with it? Is Elena's identity completely reveal yet? No. Not only was the Elena/Miller thing JUST addressed yet again merely two episodes ago but Fleur was too guarded and too much of the non-prying type to call Elena out on it as Elena wanted her to(!!!) where she'd spell it out, it could even be brought up yet again when we get the full reveal of Elena's identity. How is that "dropping it" if they've kept referencing it? It's not that there's no fall out from that, Elena f-ing wanted fall out from it, she even slapped Fleur wanting fall out from it. Ofcourse part of it was that she was annoyed that her friend didn't seem to care (I seriously doubt that's how Fleur would interpret why she doesn't) enough to press her on her statement but that clearly WAS her stressing out about it, she wanted to finally break the stress, but even after slapping her Fleur still wouldn't pry.

We've seen multiple parts of Ivica's history and Fleur's and they may still do more.

Your Maggie thing makes no sense. She's still the same same Maggie and she's in a potentially important spot, just because she's changed sides because she doesn't remember anyone because her history was changed by a key event in the story doesn't make it fanservice that she's still here (that's like saying a character who suffers amnesia halfway through a story is fanservice because they're not the same person anymore). Heck they may even use this as theorized by others that Ao and her will find some way to reach her or maybe a remnant of her true memories as we know them before the gun changed her life. Also, I think it adds to her character that she still wanted to become an IFO pilot and fight even had she not been able to join Gen Bleu with her history changed.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-15 at 00:14.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:07   Link #2245
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
I fully support. Fluer and Ao. Its a good thing the staff has good brains that they trash Naru. It looks like they feel the hate/don't like from the fans. I really don't like that girl from the beginning and its a good thing that it won't be your typical first girl win. Or so I hope and wish.

What the heck with Truth merging with an IFO --_--
__________________

tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:08   Link #2246
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
It wasn't even that focal, it was something meant to introduce Japan and give insight to the world AO, not something used as a driving force from the plot much like the counter culture was in E7, didn't have a big impact on the plot but was there for worldbuilding.
Of course it was, the entire 2nd episode was based around that. Comparing it to the counter culture in E7 is absolutely ridiculous. Ideas in the counter culture movement in E7 spanned the entire series. You could say showing the tension levels between Japan and the Allied Forces was worldbuilding but the Okinawan movement was something that didn't serve a purpose and quickly finished afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
Ivica has never been connected to the BBW to begin with, in fact Rebeckka is the only character with any close connection to BBW as this episode proves. Ivica was just a soldier Blanc wanted to hire for GB because of his connection to Eureka, where did you find anything in the story that connected him to BBW?
What? Wrong. Ivica and GenBlue's employer was BBW. Mama Hana proved that exact relationship this past episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
Uhhh...I just told you what they did with it

She was a spy for the Allied Forces that looked like Elena
Elena killed her and started masquerading as her while conveying info to the Allied Forces
They found it it wasn't her
So can you explain to me why Miller had identical DNA? How about why she was acting as a spy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
What are you talking about? Elena's episode was all about her realizing she was not Elena nor was she Miller and it's been the basis of her entire character that she's not from this world. Ivica dealt with his role as the Pied Piper and leading the children but along the way he realizes that there are more than one Pied Piper and he's not the one leading the way anymore and Fleur just may be one of the more developed characters on the show.
That's not the part of Elena's character I'm talking about. I'm talking about stuff like her committing murder and nothing coming from it.

You missed the bit I was talking about. In regards to Ivica, they haven't gone further or really done anything in regards to his background since episode 8(the one in the US). As for Fleur, we don't see any development in regards to her relationship with her father. Things might finally progress, in that she might be able forgive him now that he's dead, but as of now we haven't even seen any self-guilt or even references to her episode. No, crying that your father got blown up doesn't constitute as forgiveness or acceptance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
This makes no damn sense, the character is still active and still playing the role in the plot regardless of how you actually feel about it so it's far from pointless considering she's there to show the effects the Quartz Gun had on the lives of Team Goldilocks.
Again there's nothing that she has done or shown that a filler/redshirt character couldn't have done. Her character is absolutely pointless in terms of the overarching narrative, now if you want to argue that she's purely a visual reminder of the effects of the Quartz Gun then that's fine. That said, it could have been any one of the sisters and nothing would have changed. That says something when she's shallow enough(not that she was any developed before the Quartz Gun fired) that her whole background being changed hasn't seemingly affected her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
None of the Secrets have the same abilities and Truth's abilities aren't similar either. As explained in episode 19 he's a humanoid secret who forgot his own origin, the fact that we've never seen him interact with a Secret before episode 19 supports this.
If that's the official explanation then that is the weakest one I've ever heard. He's demonstrated abilities far beyond any of the other Secrets have used. None have shown secondary abilities such as shapeshifting/matter alteration (his unique ability is the electronic hacking) or his absolute destructive abilities in that he's effective regardless of a zone of action. In addition, the only one who has shown high levels of intelligence is the one that hacked Georg. The Secrets have been relatively consistent in their limitations and abilities, Truth hasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
How about you watch the episode? That wasn't theEND. That was an archetype IFO-0 that Blanc had hid in the basement, Mama goes over this. As to how Truth
Of course they wouldn't know it's called theEnd, Jesus.
http://i.imgur.com/k1VOj.jpg
^That's theEnd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
From the incident with the Scub Burst 10 years prior to the storyline, they cultivated when she became one with the Scub in episode 14
Again you're explaining how not why. Nobody in the original series ever demonstrated anything similar to her skill set and there were quite a few people sick with Trapar sickness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
She's doing the same thing the Scub were doing at the end of E7
They definitely haven't shown anything supporting this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
These aren't dropped plot threads, this is you asking arbitrary questions that haven't been answered yet
Like I said, they might resolve those down the road so I'll leave it be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
Dimensional anti-bodies who came to removed the Scub and the Quartz
That's not an answer. Considering they've never been shown in the OG series, there needs to specifically be some sort of origin story in order to explain their existence in this particular dimension.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-09-15 at 00:37.
Jarmel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:15   Link #2247
Daniel Lind
ロック・オン!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
I think the Okinawan plot comes off as dropped to you because carriers of that plot, namely Gazelle and his trio, are no longer part of it. First these three youths decided to help their home country by demanding things from GenBleu. But that was quickly forgotten as they just started doing oddjobs for them for... what personal purpose? I don't know. They still don't have a purpose.
Daniel Lind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:19   Link #2248
Yuuu
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
FleurxAo forever!

I actually think Ao has been an amazing lead, way better and more interesting than Renton in E7. He is what makes the show for me. I like the characters. The story is interesting. It's not the best show ever but I think it's really good. I can't wait to see how it all ends.
Yuuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:25   Link #2249
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Of course it was, the entire 2nd episode was based around that. Comparing it to the counter culture in E7 is absolutely ridiculous. Ideas in the counter culture movement in E7 spanned the entire series. You could say showing the tension levels between Japan and the Allied Forces was worldbuilding but the Okinawan movement was something that didn't serve a purpose and quickly finished afterwards.
The entire first and second episodes were based around Ao's history, how he grew up, his heritage and his link to Eureka and his desire to fight for these people and the island he loves as his home even if they hate him he wants to protect this place and Okinawa's citizens behavior and their paranoia and stubbornness and the adults views on what Okinawa is and should be is tied directly to Ao's treatment all his life particularly by the adults, so naturally their views (and Gazelle's younger generation's opinion of those views) play a major role in episode 2.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:25   Link #2250
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
What? Wrong. Ivica and GenBlue's employer was BBW. Mama Hana proved that exact relationship this past episode.
No, Generation Bleu is Ivica's employer, and in turn Big Blue World owns a controlling interest in Generation Bleu and thus has say over its operations. Hanna's "defection" of sorts is merely doing what the man upstairs is saying, instead of going rogue like Ivica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
So can you explain to me why Miller had identical DNA? How about why she was acting as a spy?
*facepalm* Identical DNA? Seriously? Look again. She was acting as a spy because Miller was. She assumed her identity. Not rocket science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
That's not the part of Elena's character I'm talking about. I'm talking about stuff like her committing murder and nothing coming from it.
Christophe Blanc hints that he knew, but didn't do anything about it. She was a spy, now she's dead. Swept under the rug by Blanc because it's not worth losing a pilot over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
If that's the official explanation then that is the weakest one I've ever heard. He's demonstrated abilities far beyond any of the other Secrets have used. None have shown secondary abilities such as shapeshifting/matter alteration (his unique ability is the electronic hacking) or his absolute destructive abilities in that he's effective regardless of a zone of action. In addition, the only one who has shown high levels of intelligence is the one that hacked Georg. The Secrets have been relatively consistent in their limitations and abilities, Truth hasn't.
It's the explanation in the episode. As for shapeshifting, the first one changed the shape of its head, the bird one changed into a missile, the carnival ride one grew new parts instantly. All the Secrets are capable of destruction on the level he's shown, they just aren't telekinetic, and the Secret head hacked Georg so you've got your hacking connection there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Of course they wouldn't know it's called theEnd, Jesus.
http://i.imgur.com/k1VOj.jpg
^That's theEnd.
And it blew up. Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Again you're explaining how not why. Nobody in the original series ever demonstrated anything similar to her skill set and there were quite a few people sick with Trapar sickness.
Desperation Disease is not Scub Coral infection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
That's not an answer. Considering they've never been shown in the OG series, there needs to specifically be some sort of origin story in order to explain their existence in this particular dimension.
Yes it is, you just aren't understanding it. They're Clock Roaches. Doctor Who used the concept. As for why they didn't exist before, the Scub is supposed to be in the E7 timeline. It landed on Earth. In the E7AO timeline, it's traveling back from the future and disrupting the timeline, hence the Secrets.
__________________
morbosfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:25   Link #2251
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Well said morbofist.

Just because it fell naturally into the background as Ao joined Gen Bleu and we naturally didn't see the island for a while as the show got more global and Ao was no longer on the island doesn't mean the issue was "dropped" nor that such political turmoil wasn't continuing on the island after he left, but we're seeing the world through Ao so why would he know what's going on on the island after he left it? It's even brought up each time we're back to the island making the island a living-breathing location, and more importantly as morbofirst and ChocoBar said it also served a MAJOR dual purpose development for the situation surrounding how Ao grew up in his childhood and a basis for why he's matured faster than a normal 13 year old kid (or Renton for that matter) and how his mother (and him too) was persecuted for being a "foreigner" or in actuality an alien (actually half-alien ofcourse) and how Naru was really nice to him and a true friend as they grew up as kids climaxing in that memorable scene where she embraced him despite the adults all considering him a "bringer of death/disaster/etc." even after his hair changed color further hinting at his alien heritage since most character have "normal" hair colors in this world.
What you're discussing has less to do with the island as a whole but more with how it relates to Ao as an individual. Not to mention there hasn't been any development of how Ao felt about the situation. It ended and that was that.

Well we do have Naru, who it seems was supposed to be a major character, on the island who is pretty much either taking long naps or looking at the sunset.The Okinawan Independence movement and how it related to Ao as an individual is gone. They quickly ended it off-screen without much of a proper conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
It also introduced/demonstrated a major theme showing the gap between the older generation and their past burdens and the younger generation and that scene where Gazelle embodied how the younger generation think that the way the adults handle themselves and these types of issues are pathetic sometimes even after they get what they thought they want, which ties into one of the big overall themes of the show. Plus, this story is a global story once it got off the island and Ao joined Gen Bleu, did you expect them to only focus on this one country after he left? Part of the goal was probably to make Okinawa and the world feel like a real living part of a real living world with real political hot issues and by extension the politics brought up when addressing the political maneuverings of the rest of the countries as the Ao went out into the world. And these are important as they've come to the forefront on multiple occasions and are doing so again.
I'll grant you the bit about it introducing the general gap. However Ao's primary goal when he left Okinawa was to protect the island. It seems necessary then that giving more than a couple of quick flashes would be required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
What do you mean they didn't do jack with it? Is Elena's identity completely reveal yet? No. Not only was the Elena/Miller thing JUST addressed yet again merely two episodes ago but Fleur was too guarded and too much of the non-prying type to call Elena out on it as Elena wanted her to(!!!) where she'd spell it out, it could even be brought up yet again when we get the full reveal of Elena's identity. How is that "dropping it" if they've kept referencing it? It's not that there's no fall out from that, Elena f-ing wanted fall out from it, she even slapped Fleur wanting fall out from it. Ofcourse part of it was that she was annoyed that her friend didn't seem to care (I seriously doubt that's how Fleur would interpret why she doesn't) enough to press her on her statement but that clearly WAS her stressing out about it, she wanted to finally break the stress, but even after slapping her Fleur still wouldn't pry.

We've seen multiple parts of Ivica's history and Fleur's and they may still do more.
I can't argue with theoreticals so you are right that they might discuss this at length in further episodes. We're 4 episodes from the finish line though so if they want to have some big explanations then they have 4 more episodes to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Your Maggie thing makes no sense. She's still the same same Maggie and she's in a potentially important spot, just because she's changed sides because she doesn't remember anyone because her history was changed by a key event in the story doesn't make it fanservice that she's still here (that's like saying a character who suffers amnesia halfway through a story is fanservice because they're not the same person anymore). Heck they may even use this as theorized by others that Ao and her will find some way to reach her or maybe a remnant of her true memories as we know them before the gun changed her life. Also, I think it adds to her character that she still wanted to become an IFO pilot and fight even had she not been able to join Gen Bleu with her history changed.
If you kill a character off and then bring them back with no memory then yes I would definitely consider that fanservice.
Jarmel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:28   Link #2252
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Why would there be any development on Ao's view on it? It's practically inconsequential to him especially once his adopted grandfather agrees on him joining Gen Bleu and he's more focused on learning the truth about his mother. He's still in school and he's not exactly the most popular due to his heritage, before everything went down in ep 1 Ao probably didn't even care about the Okinawan independence movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
I think the Okinawan plot comes off as dropped to you because carriers of that plot, namely Gazelle and his trio, are no longer part of it. First these three youths decided to help their home country by demanding things from GenBleu. But that was quickly forgotten as they just started doing oddjobs for them for... what personal purpose? I don't know. They still don't have a purpose.
It wasn't "quickly forgotten", they were never going to "get anything" from Gen Bleu without proving their worth so they had to accept whatever they could get from Christophe to stay, and then "bigger stuff" happened since Gen Bleu operates on a global scale. They accidentally get themselves into something bigger, not to mention their oddjobs got them involved in learning that Gen Bleu's fight involves the entire world and not just their small island, so they've been doing what they can to help Gen Bleu save lives just like Ao, then shit hit the fan when Truth attacked. It doesn't really need to be spelled out that their lives changed once they started participating in what Gen Blue does such as Ao becoming invested in stopping the Secrets from attacking regardless of the country he was sent into.

Ao continues his goal to protect the island (and learn the truth about his mother) the only way he can at first, by joining the fight against the Secrets with Gen Bleu since he couldn't stay on the island anymore. Once their it was no longer about just protecting just his island once he got immersed in Gen Bleu which operates on a global scale, he wanted to help his fellow pilots fight the Secrets everywhere including to continue protecting the island should they return there, he joined a global organization.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-15 at 01:02.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 00:45   Link #2253
Jarmel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
No, Generation Bleu is Ivica's employer, and in turn Big Blue World owns a controlling interest in Generation Bleu and thus has say over its operations. Hanna's "defection" of sorts is merely doing what the man upstairs is saying, instead of going rogue like Ivica.
That's still your boss. The current episode also made clear that BBW was still trying to give orders. As to Ivica going rogue in this episode, considering he hasn't mentioned any grief with BBW, the more likely reason is in regards to the children. He hasn't mentioned once that he was annoyed working for a subsidiary of BBW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
*facepalm* Identical DNA? Seriously? Look again. She was acting as a spy because Miller was. She assumed her identity. Not rocket science.
You're right, I mean the high level of physical similarities between the two. I'm quoting the AO wiki but it states that there was
Quote:
a 97% match in appearance
. That implies some sort of relationship or association.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Christophe Blanc hints that he knew, but didn't do anything about it. She was a spy, now she's dead. Swept under the rug by Blanc because it's not worth losing a pilot over.
Again nothing came of that. It became an interesting tidbit of information but there wasn't any consequences or fallout from that knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
It's the explanation in the episode. As for shapeshifting, the first one changed the shape of its head, the bird one changed into a missile, the carnival ride one grew new parts instantly. All the Secrets are capable of destruction on the level he's shown, they just aren't telekinetic, and the Secret head hacked Georg so you've got your hacking connection there.
They haven't changed complete physical dimensions such as enlarging themselves on a exponential factor. You're also forgetting the zone of action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
And it blew up. Point?
How did it survive the OG series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Desperation Disease is not Scub Coral infection.
Just because they use different terminology doesn't mean it's inherently different. The symptoms for the most part have been extremely similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Yes it is, you just aren't understanding it. They're Clock Roaches. Doctor Who used the concept. As for why they didn't exist before, the Scub is supposed to be in the E7 timeline. It landed on Earth. In the E7AO timeline, it's traveling back from the future and disrupting the timeline, hence the Secrets.
Alright then they still introduced an entirely new concept compared to the original series and haven't explained that. They haven't established the conditions as to why the Secrets would be in this universe and not the others. Saying that it's because the Scub traveled from the future is something the show hasn't explained or correlated, especially because we don't know if this is the same universe as the original series.
Jarmel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:02   Link #2254
aardvark
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: United States
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Just because they use different terminology doesn't mean it's inherently different. The symptoms for the most part have been extremely similar.
Are they?

Desperation Disease was basically a person's conscience being sent into the Scub Coral information hub/command cluster (manifestation of which was seen in Acperience 4) using the compac drive as medium. Now I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but that doesn't seem anything at all like what has been shown as "trappar sickness" so far.
aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:04   Link #2255
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
That's still your boss. The current episode also made clear that BBW was still trying to give orders. As to Ivica going rogue in this episode, considering he hasn't mentioned any grief with BBW, the more likely reason is in regards to the children. He hasn't mentioned once that he was annoyed working for a subsidiary of BBW.
No, that's management higher up than you take orders from. Ivica takes orders from Christophe, who in turn is supposed to take orders from them. As for "hasn't mentioned any grief", you must have missed the numerous moments where he gets upset with them in the past couple episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
You're right, I mean the high level of physical similarities between the two. I'm quoting the AO wiki but it states that there was a 97% match in appearance. That implies some sort of relationship or association.
Please tell me that you've seen the show and aren't just combing the wiki.

No, there is not a 97% similarity between them. The scene in question is meant to demonstrate that the current Miller is actually Elena impersonating her. Elena and Miller aren't actually a perfect match, just close enough that Elena can convincingly impersonate her. It's a coincidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Again nothing came of that. It became an interesting tidbit of information but there wasn't any consequences or fallout from that knowledge.
At this point, what would you have such consequences be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
They haven't changed complete physical dimensions such as enlarging themselves on a exponential factor. You're also forgetting the zone of action.
The Zone of Action is just a detection radius, like a scanner. The size-changing is explicitly a unique reaction this particular Secret had to a unique situation, a fact made perfectly clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
How did it survive the OG series?
How did the Nirvash when it evolved into spec3? Why is it the movie Nirvash? Why is the final movie Nirvash going to appear? A question yet to be answered isn't the same as a question never answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Just because they use different terminology doesn't mean it's inherently different. The symptoms for the most part have been extremely similar.
Desperation Disease:
1. Unhealthy obsession on Compac Drive.
2. Complete lack of reaction to other stimuli.

Scub Coral infection:
1. Trouble breathing.
2. Lack of energy.
3. Eventual growth into coral-controlling superhuman.

I fail to see how they're remotely similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Alright then they still introduced an entirely new concept compared to the original series and haven't explained that. They haven't established the conditions as to why the Secrets would be in this universe and not the others. Saying that it's because the Scub traveled from the future is something the show hasn't explained or correlated, especially because we don't know if this is the same universe as the original series.
Except the show has explained it. The Scub is not supposed to be here. The Secrets are responding to that and attempting to destroy it. Even they call their appearance an act of nature. It is a concept the show is using and that others before it have also used.
__________________
morbosfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:11   Link #2256
Kurohane
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
All this is proving is what the series has refrained from explaining for 20 episodes. Elena is a true mystery. I doubt she is the daughter of Eureka, but she has some connection. Remember, in episode Mirror of the world at the end, the real Elena Peoples disappeared or was killed, and the Elena we know assumed her identity.

Desperation Diesease is different than what is transpiring in this series. Desperation was full-blown paralysis, while the infection now is infection of the lungs, causing problems breathing. Many more things have to be covered. In episode 19, Christophe admitted the adults made a mistake and they are unable to fix it nor admit they were wrong. It is up to the kids to fix the adults mistake, finding what is the right thing to do and act upon it. Ao and co. have just now started their "true" journey. Doubt that this will all be covered in four episodes, but we'll see.
__________________

Last edited by Kurohane; 2012-09-15 at 01:45.
Kurohane is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:23   Link #2257
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
If you kill a character off and then bring them back with no memory then yes I would definitely consider that fanservice.
How is that fanservice? Firstly, her history was changed by a hugely key event to the story and second she's the same person in the same ongoing story not a cameo. That's like saying that a character who has amnesia in the middle of a story (and isn't the protagonist so no one is sure if they'll ever recover) due to a huge plot important event is just fanservice to the rest of the show just because we don't know if she'll get her memory back even if they continue her character by showing that even without the factors that made her a candidate for Gen Bleu she still is driven to be a pilot in her new timeline wanting to fight, I think that's pretty good for a secondary ongoing character, and I wouldn't necessarily rule out the possibility that she'll be encountering Ao in the next ep or two which could ride on her two totally opposing histories and weigh on Ao greatly, if there's any comm chatter between them for him to realize it's her, as he'll be aware of both of her histories in which we would be totally unaware had she not been a character we've been following.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-15 at 01:37.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:27   Link #2258
Yuuu
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
I thought it was interesting in this latest episode that Secret said that the QUARTZ were the invaders, and didn't mention the Scub Coral. I wonder if the Quartz exists in E7 timeline as well? What the heck is it?
Yuuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:34   Link #2259
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
All this is proving is what the series has tried refrained from explaining for 20 episodes. Elena is a true mystery. I doubt she is the daughter of Eureka, but ahe has some connection. Remember, in episode Mirror of the world at the end, the real Elena Peoples disappeared or was killed, and the Elena we know assumed her identity.
Yeah, been looking forward to it for a while and still am. I'll admit I'm a tad bit surprised, I actually thought this would be one of the mysteries solved leading into the last arc in order to solidify our Pied Piper team for the final push.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-15, 01:48   Link #2260
Kurohane
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuuu View Post
I thought it was interesting in this latest episode that Secret said that the QUARTZ were the invaders, and didn't mention the Scub Coral. I wonder if the Quartz exists in E7 timeline as well? What the heck is it?
All we know is it is not something the scubs originally had. In fact, this substance is what's pulling the scub corals to this world in the first place.
__________________
Kurohane is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
harem, mecha, military, romance, science fiction, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.