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Old 2012-04-27, 19:54   Link #341
Theowne
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Going to have to say that I have a tinge of disappointment after this episode. At the moment I find the infatuation between Kaoru and Ritsuko, as well as that of Sentarou and Yurika, to be relatively superficial and uninteresting to me (I echo Seiji's comments and perhaps would be even harsher), and so the quick turn towards love triangle antics comes off as melodrama to me, particularly after the grounded approach and pacing of the initial episode (which hooked me in the first place, along with the musical aspect). Just my little opinion.
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Old 2012-04-27, 22:08   Link #342
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
But seriously though, I wish this series would become popular so that people will see how it's setting a new higher bar on how dynamic scenes of activity will be animated in the future. Watching every new episode with every new jam session, almost all animated performances in the past look like they were made by a first year animation student.
While I love the animation quality of Sakamichi, I wouldn't go so far as to praise it to the high heavens. It's one thing to re-create movement through rotoscoping, and quite another to create a sense of weight and fluidity through pure animation (that is, the kind of animation expressed by Hayao Miyazaki). In my case, the "uncanny valley" effect often pops up during the jam sessions. Yes, I'm awed by the high level of "fidelity" — I greatly respect the amount of time and money invested in the jam sequences; the producers clearly care a lot about them — but, no, they aren't necessarily a smooth fit with the rest of the animation and are, in fact, somewhat jarring at times, creating a dissonant effect.

As for the romance angle, it's playing out more or less as I expected, though I am surprised that Ri'ko is, in fact, infatuated with Sentaro. I thought she regarded him as a childhood friend whom she enjoyed mothering. (The relevation changes significantly the way I would interpret their church session in the previous episode; it gives rise to the possibility that Ri'ko was promised to Sentaro some time in the past, and that they wear their rosaries as a symbol of that promise.)

I don't find the relationships superficial. In the case of Sentaro, he's always been the impulsive free spirit. Once he got over the initial awkwardness, I can easily imagine him going all out for Yurika. As for Yurika, my reading of the situation is that she wasn't fooled for a moment who had actually "invited" her to the date. She's a city girl and, from the get go, she struck me as a woman who is experienced in love and the ways of the world. Meaning to say, she likely knows that men are attracted to her and she doesn't mind going along with a relationship to see if it "works". It's very much in keeping with the evolving social liberation of the '60s counter-culture movement, when women started, for the first time, to take control of their romantic relationships, pursuing as often as they were pursued.
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Old 2012-04-27, 23:55   Link #343
fertygo
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Yeah, I love appolon animation but saying it setting new bar of animation level bar is very stretching.

I mean one of short movies of Classic Tom & Jerry have better piano animation. Just look at this. the animation is just simply outstanding and not using some CGi like appolon did.



That's not a hit to appolon though, current ages animation just not simply up par with the past animation level. (and those tom & jerry short movies in 40s have far higher budget than appolon)

Still gotta respect the production staff for making thing that anyone ain't making anymore. I really hope this title got recognition that its deserved. (albeit I still liking more tsuritama than this :P) we need more anime like this, Albeit its seems not that many discussion arise for this show in japanese board currently.
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Old 2012-04-28, 06:27   Link #344
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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Yeah, I love appolon animation but saying it setting new bar of animation level bar is very stretching.
Which I agree, and was also trying to argue on the Hyou-ka forums as well. There's so many "good" looking anime these days, to label one or a studio as "new bar" is kinda dumb.

Quote:
Still gotta respect the production staff for making thing that anyone ain't making anymore. I really hope this title got recognition that its deserved. (albeit I still liking more tsuritama than this :P) we need more anime like this, Albeit its seems not that many discussion arise for this show in japanese board currently.
Which is a shame but is expected. The only way this series will get the attention of the "hardcore otaku" crowd is if they bump up the homo-erotica features between Sentaro and Kaouri then maybe the yaoi fans might come along. Or hope that the old audiences of noitamina's early days are still alive.


Which leaves me curious. How are the ratings for Sakamichi and Tsuritama? Might pop in to the noitamina thread for that question.

As for the episode 3 itself, it was a bit of a drop in quality due to it moving so fast and introducing all these relationship lines/triangles etc. I don't mind "shipping" but it felt really fast paced and something like that would be solved by the penultimate ep of a 1-cour series. Guess Watanabe isn't keen bullshitting around relationship issues.
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Old 2012-04-28, 06:57   Link #345
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I think the ratings are only in the 2% so not awful but not great either. I think this slot made a mistake when it moved to a later time slot.
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Old 2012-04-28, 08:49   Link #346
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
Which is a shame but is expected. The only way this series will get the attention of the "hardcore otaku" crowd is if they bump up the homo-erotica features between Sentaro and Kaouri then maybe the yaoi fans might come along.
Ha. No self-respecting fangirl needs to have things spelled out for her... (It's a bit funny how the writing seems to go out of its way to tone it down, though. xD As much as the manga is definitely not BL, the bromance runs pretty deep.)

I think it's just that unless you're a jazz enthusiast (and not everyone is), there's not a whole lot to talk about. The tone of the show is fairly low-key, there's no epic story, the characters are mostly straightforward (so far), it's not controversial (yet), there's not much space for speculation or wild guessing... The romance/love quadrangle provides a new aspect but it's not presented in a particularly exciting way.

All this of course doesn't mean that Apollon is bad or uninteresting - quite the opposite. But it's not the sort of show that people get very enthusiastic about, or one that generates much discussion, at least not at this point. I think the discussion will pick up after certain revelations and developments.
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Old 2012-04-28, 09:21   Link #347
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I meant to post this the other day: Sarah Vaughan

Here she is with Count Basie singing "You Turned the Tables on Me":

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Old 2012-04-28, 10:23   Link #348
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Ratings so far are among the best for the Block, actually. And with two great shows instead of the usual one (or none) it's not surprising.
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Old 2012-04-28, 10:32   Link #349
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Ratings so far are among the best for the Block, actually. And with two great shows instead of the usual one (or none) it's not surprising.
Actually the ratings seem average for the block. They are pretty good but not necessarily spectacular. Although compared to other late night shows it is very good.
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Old 2012-04-28, 10:42   Link #350
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Actually the ratings seem average for the block. They are pretty good but not necessarily spectacular. Although compared to other late night shows it is very good.
Well, so far the average is third best in the last ten seasons, which is hardly average.
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Old 2012-04-28, 11:08   Link #351
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that session rules!
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Old 2012-04-28, 11:22   Link #352
Kirarakim
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Well, so far the average is third best in the last ten seasons, which is hardly average.
I think it just depends on your perspective. Like I said I admit it is very good for late night anime and it's on the higher end of the block (at least since they went to showing 2 series). But I don't think 2% is an amazing rating by itself. I think we will see how well the series are doing when we see sales figures or if manga sales go up significantly for Apollon.

For example Ano Hana & C also got similar ratings (in large part probably because of Ano Hana) but Ano Hana also sold fairly well. I hoping the same for Apollon and Tsuritama.
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Old 2012-04-28, 17:55   Link #353
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Going to have to say that I have a tinge of disappointment after this episode. At the moment I find the infatuation between Kaoru and Ritsuko, as well as that of Sentarou and Yurika, to be relatively superficial and uninteresting to me (I echo Seiji's comments and perhaps would be even harsher), and so the quick turn towards love triangle antics comes off as melodrama to me, particularly after the grounded approach and pacing of the initial episode (which hooked me in the first place, along with the musical aspect). Just my little opinion.
I couldn't agree more. The first episode had me hooked, but it's been a downward spiral ever since. The love triangle (or rectangle to be more accurate) is too complicated for its own good and takes away the thing that hooked me in the first place: the comradery when playing in a band. The pacing is fine, but it's all unnecessary drama that's been done before and better. I understand they can't show sessions of 5 or more minutes, but I want to see them actively improve their skills through their (growing) passion for jazz. For now, it's just been a catalyst that got them together.
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Old 2012-04-28, 18:14   Link #354
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by CWW View Post
I understand they can't show sessions of 5 or more minutes, but I want to see them actively improve their skills through their (growing) passion for jazz. For now, it's just been a catalyst that got them together.
But this show is not about the characters improving their skills through their growing passion for jazz.

Perhaps due to the pre-airing hype, especially over Kanno's involvement, it seems that many people have the misconception that Apollon is about jazz. It's not. It's about Kaoru (and to a lesser extent, Sen) dealing with life, with all its joy and drama. Obviously jazz is very important, but it's a catalyst, something for the characters to bond over, to express themselves by. Playing jazz is not the focus of the story.
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Old 2012-04-28, 18:40   Link #355
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Well, I'm sorry, but the OP clearly depicts the two main characters playing together, standing outside a jazz bar and prepping for a live session. If the actual show has nothing of the sort, then they shouldn't have made it that way. An OP is supposed to invite you in and introduce you to the show's premise, its characters and possible hints at future events that you can look forward to. This is just false advertisement if true.

I'm not saying the music should be the central focus, but it should at least be a moderate part of it going by the OP. For now, they're having a session every episode that has little relevance to the story. The only significant development is Kaoru's piano performance for Ri, which I hope there will be more of, namely expressing their feelings and emotions through music.
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Old 2012-04-28, 18:46   Link #356
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Originally Posted by CWW View Post
Well, I'm sorry, but the OP clearly depicts the two main characters playing together, standing outside a jazz bar and prepping for a live session. If the actual show has nothing of the sort, then they shouldn't have made it that way. An OP is supposed to invite you in and introduce you to the show's premise, its characters and possible hints at future events that you can look forward to. This is just false advertisement if true.

I'm not saying the music should be the central focus, but it should at least be a moderate part of it going by the OP. For now, they're having a session every episode that has little relevance to the story. The only significant development is Kaoru's piano performance for Ri, which I hope there will be more of, namely expressing their emotions through music.
If the show is about the characters though, rather than about the 'story' per se, then I think all the sessions so far have had relevance. The one in this episode, for example, had Kaoru (sort of) resolving his anger at Sentarou. It might look like it's got nothing to do with the drama, but I personally feel it showed a lot about Kaoru and what music does for him.
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Old 2012-04-28, 18:59   Link #357
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I couldn't agree more. The first episode had me hooked, but it's been a downward spiral ever since. The love triangle (or rectangle to be more accurate) is too complicated for its own good and takes away the thing that hooked me in the first place: the comradery when playing in a band. The pacing is fine, but it's all unnecessary drama that's been done before and better. I understand they can't show sessions of 5 or more minutes, but I want to see them actively improve their skills through their (growing) passion for jazz. For now, it's just been a catalyst that got them together.
Haha, from the moment this started I knew there would be comments like this. You seem to have forgotten something. This isn't just about jazz. It's how they all come together through jazz, getting through a bunch of things, like falling in love for the first time etc.

When ppl started this, were they expecting JUST jazz? If it's about that don't worry, there will be more.
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Old 2012-04-28, 19:09   Link #358
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by CWW View Post
Well, I'm sorry, but the OP clearly depicts the two main characters playing together, standing outside a jazz bar and prepping for a live session. If the actual show has nothing of the sort, then they shouldn't have made it that way. An OP is supposed to invite you in and introduce you to the show's premise, its characters and possible hints at future events that you can look forward to. This is just false advertisement if true.
I'm sorry but I don't get it - when you see the OP of say, Tsuritama or Utena do you go into the shows expecting everyone to break into a dance every few minutes, or fly around on horses?

It seems to me you simply had certain expectations that were proven to be, if not entirely false, but not quite correct. Not entirely false, because music is very important, the characters are playing together every now and then (pretty often, actually, it just doesn't get shown for obvious reasons), there'll be a performance in a jazz bar (sort of) and they will have live sessions. However, these are mostly tied to plot and characterization. The focus is not on the music and the characters playing it and forming a band and whatever else people imagined this would be about. (I hadn't paid a whole lot of attention to the pre-airing advertising, but it seems like many people had somehow decided that Kanno + Watanabe = Bebop -> jazz -> Apollon has jazz -> Apollon will be totally about jazz.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWW View Post
I'm not saying the music should be the central focus, but it should at least be a moderate part of it going by the OP. For now, they're having a session every episode that has little relevance to the story. The only significant development is Kaoru's piano performance for Ri, which I hope there will be more of, namely expressing their feelings and emotions through music.
How were those sessions not significant? They were both great character moments. Kaoru and Sen making up via playing music is exactly like what you seem to be asking for... And if you think the session in the previous episode was not significant I have no idea what you think is significant.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-04-28 at 19:26. Reason: I totally fail at grammar...
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Old 2012-04-28, 19:25   Link #359
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Yay, finally something to argue about and generate discussion. And seriously, were people thinking Glee when they came into this anime or something?
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Old 2012-04-28, 20:20   Link #360
CWW
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I'm sorry but I don't get it - when you see the OP of say, Tsuritama or Utena do you go into the shows expecting everyone to break into a dance every few minutes, or fly around on horses?
That's not a fair comparison. Kids on the Slope is a romantic slice of life show grounded in reality. An OP can be abstract and avant-garde, but it can still be intelligently presented to be relevant to the theme of the show. See: The Tatami Galaxy.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
It seems to me you simply had certain expectations that were proven to be, if not entirely false, but not quite correct. Not entirely false, because music is very important, the characters are playing together every now and then (pretty often, actually, it just doesn't get shown for obvious reasons), there'll be a performance in a jazz bar (sort of) and they will have live sessions. However, these are mostly tied to plot and characterization. The focus is not on the music and the characters playing it and forming a band and whatever else people have imagined this would be about. (I hadn't paid a whole lot of attention to the pre-airing advertising, but it seems like many people had somehow decided that Kanno + Watanabe = Bebop -> jazz -> Apollon has jazz -> Apollon will be totally about jazz.)
No, not just about jazz, but like Nodame Cantabile, I expected character development by building up the various relationships and improving one's musical abilities. Neither of the two overbearing the other. Like I said earlier, hardships in love have been done to death, but the notion of combining it with expressive music rooted in improvisation is one that has unique potential, especially considering the staff. Sadly, the romance is overbearing by now, to the point it's strangling the other thematic concept.

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How were those sessions not significant? They were both great character moments. Kaoru and Sen making up via playing music is exactly like what you seem to be asking for... And if you think the session in the previous episode was not significant I have no idea what you think is significant.
I don't see how the session in episode 2 can be classified as significant, besides maybe revealing that Sentarou has great respect for and perhaps even idolizes the trumpetist. In episode 3, they make up, sure, except Kaoru could have prevented it by not being such a numpty and taken his handkerchief, or at the very least resolved it by telling him the reason. It was all pointless in the end except to start a fight or otherwise drama.

Anyway, this isn't the point. The point I'm trying to make is that the drama is oppressing. It isn't even clever drama. It's simply an old-fashioned love triangle propagated by shallowness and misunderstandings. I hope there's a better balance in future episodes between the romance and music, because the characters are certainly not making themselves endearing this way.
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