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Old 2011-12-28, 18:14   Link #81
White Silver King
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I think it is pretty convincing because bees are a matriarchy
She could as easily be an ant, an elephant, or a lion. Those are all matriarchies as well.

Quote:
Big Mom's animalistic tendency to cannibalize her crew.
Bee's eat pollen, not other bees. And Bees only attack when they're threatened, as stinging kills them. They aren't aggressive.
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Old 2011-12-28, 18:41   Link #82
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I'm gonna reserve discussion on this chapter for now because other than the introduction of Big Mam, there is still not enough to theorize what would happen.

Though I'll say this, the possibility or Big Mam being Lola's mom decreased for me unless that cannibal act is not exactly real and the said crew member can somehow be spitted out.

With that being said, I'm more interested in the 3-eye girl, not because she's cute, but because for a character that is not Big Mam and someone not introduced as an officer either, she is getting a good chunk of screen time.

And since Oda likes his folklores and legends, I can think of two related background:

1) Some Oni (japanese style of orge) in Japanese has three eyes so it might be one of OP's races.

2) Diety related, Chinese deity Erlang Shen (二郎神) who is most prominently featured in Journey to the West (XiYou Ji/Saiyuki) and Creation of the Gods (FengShen Bang/Hoshin Engi) is a war god and of the very best heavenly general. This deity is also known for his purity and sense of justice. The third eye allow him to see through all deceptions and evil. It could also based on Indian/Buddhist deity Shiva where the third-eye is originated.
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Old 2011-12-28, 19:22   Link #83
White Silver King
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Luffy developed the gears after his loss against Aokiji, and yet he still got beat plenty of times after that. Of course his 2 years of training under Rayleigh are a whole different ball game, but you get the idea. Luffy is NOT going to be beating top tiers right now. That doesn't make sense from a story telling perspective (we're only a little past half way). If Luffy is capable of beating an emperor right now, then who else could possibly challenge the strawhats to make things interesting? The strawhats had many difficulties and challenges throughout paradise, so with the New World being described as much more dangerous it's only logical that Oda won't deviate from that formula.
Maybe Luffy won't beat Big Mom by himself or without help, but she's going to be beaten and soon (I think within the next two arcs). The fact that she's not only a tyrant who will slaughter entire countries who don't meet her INSANE demands of something as trivial as candy, but that she actually eats people, her own subordinates at that, mean she can't live in the OP world for long now that we know of her.
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Old 2011-12-28, 23:34   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
It's part of One Piece 15 years celebration. In addition to a 3 month long exhibition there are quite a few commemorative figure sets schedule for release. Toshio Asakuma's animal figures is one of those highly anticipated ones.
That answers one of my questions, but I still wonder, Is the giraffe an equine or a bovine? Sure it's considered a bovine according to the fact about the Ushi Ushi no Mi: Model Giraffe eaten by Kaku of CP9 but when I see the skeletal giraffe, the head looks more equine. Strange how the anatomy of certain animals can have a thin line in telling them apart. The same can be said about hyenas on wether they're canines or felines.

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Originally Posted by White Silver King View Post
Bee's eat pollen, not other bees. And Bees only attack when they're threatened, as stinging kills them. They aren't aggressive.
Normal bees aren't agressive but African Honeybees are when they are threatened wether some creature is crowding their space or taking their honey.
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Old 2011-12-29, 06:02   Link #85
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That answers one of my questions, but I still wonder, Is the giraffe an equine or a bovine? Sure it's considered a bovine according to the fact about the Ushi Ushi no Mi: Model Giraffe eaten by Kaku of CP9 but when I see the skeletal giraffe, the head looks more equine. Strange how the anatomy of certain animals can have a thin line in telling them apart. The same can be said about hyenas on wether they're canines or felines.
Well to put it simply, giraffes are actually much closer to cows than they are to horses as they both belong to the Artiodactyla order in the Mammalia class, while horses belong to the Perissodactyla order...
It's all about the feet ^^
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Old 2011-12-29, 10:51   Link #86
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^Yep, giraffes are more closely related to cows and deer than they are to horses. So far, the only horse-type zoans we've seen were Gan Fall's pegasus and the Awakened zebra guardian in Impel Down.



Speaking of zoans, going back to the Big Mom being a bee thing, I think that's actually the least fitting power for her. If she were to be some sort of arthropod, I'd think that the suzumebachi (aka Asian giant hornet) would be the most appropriate for her. I mean, considering that she goes as far as to destroy countries over candy, you could say that it's similar to how those hornets assault beehives for food. And as mentioned already, a bee would die if they stung something, but this doesn't hold true for wasps and hornets. So if anything, her aggressive nature makes her more closer to those creepy-crawlies than the more docile honey bees.....


Oh, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but in case anyone missed it:


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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Something just occurred to me: Luffy recovered the treasure from Caribou, but does that also include the tamatebako? If not, then if Caribou does manage to escape the island in one piece, not only would he risk exposing Shira's secret, but he may end up selling the steroids to some rather unsavory folks who'd not only mass-produce it, but may even somehow modify it so that there's no risk of rapid aging once the pills are ingested.....
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Old 2011-12-29, 13:24   Link #87
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I just don't think a Bee zoan would do her much good. How the hell are some tiny ass ethereal wings supposed to lift her HUMUNGOUS body? Let alone make her super fast. We've seen from other Zoans that they don't drastically change the size of your body most the time. Pell, for example, didn't change into a little falcon, he was a buff birdman. So it stands to reason she'd be a giant bee, and those kinds of wings, no matter how large, aren't going to support her weight. I just don't peg her as a speed fighter for obvious reasons. She seems much more like a fortress kind of fighter i.e. high endurance and defenses with really powerful attacks but not much movement.

Out of all the hypotheses we've heard, I think the acid fruit fits her best but I find that a little too close to Magellan for it to be original enough for someone as important as a Yonkou. I think something like a slug zone (high regenerative factor and acid secretion - at least in manga lol) or another kind of animal that secretes acid would fit her better. I mean, her saliva dripping on the floor is making is smoke and she mentioned her stomach acids. Acid definitely has something to do with it.
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Old 2011-12-29, 14:40   Link #88
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Yeah, I feel that acid's the most logical theory myself. Besides, I'm sure that Oda will find ways to differentiate it from Magellan's poison power (like how he showed there were differences between the fire and magma fruits).


But putting that aside, I just noticed this post from Undertaker which I missed earlier:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
With that being said, I'm more interested in the 3-eye girl, not because she's cute, but because for a character that is not Big Mam and someone not introduced as an officer either, she is getting a good chunk of screen time.

And since Oda likes his folklores and legends, I can think of two related background:

1) Some Oni (japanese style of orge) in Japanese has three eyes so it might be one of OP's races.

2) Diety related, Chinese deity Erlang Shen (二郎神) who is most prominently featured in Journey to the West (XiYou Ji/Saiyuki) and Creation of the Gods (FengShen Bang/Hoshin Engi) is a war god and of the very best heavenly general. This deity is also known for his purity and sense of justice. The third eye allow him to see through all deceptions and evil. It could also based on Indian/Buddhist deity Shiva where the third-eye is originated.


I find that interesting because I remember learning in the past that the third eye was supposed to be a symbol of enlightenment in Buddhism (as you can see here, and we do see manga characters with 3 eyes from time to time, like Tenshinhan from DB for instance). Could this perhaps mean that Sengoku's mystic zoan won't be the only Buddhist-themed DF power.....?
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Old 2011-12-29, 14:46   Link #89
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Off-topic but I just had a revelation. Basil Hawkins is one of my favorite characters, but his fortune-telling ability has always bothered. I could never figure out how it works. I was just thinking, what if his tarot cards act as amplifiers of CoO Haki? Same could apply to Shirley and her orb.
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Old 2011-12-29, 16:01   Link #90
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That.... doesn't really mean anything, though. Yeah, Luffy declared war against an emperor, but we also saw him declare war against the WG long before the skip occurred. And notice how that kind of resulted in him and his crew getting smacked around by a bunch of top-class opponents for the following arcs up to the skip. We already know he has a tendency to be reckless, so while it's cool that he's protecting the fish-people from Charlotte's wrath and all, there's still a very real possibility that his actions may force him to bite more than he can chew.

Actually, the two years of training was just so the crew would be strong enough to survive in the New World. That much was strongly emphasized before the skip, even. It wasn't really about Luffy becoming an even match for the Yonkou/admirals.

And honestly, I wouldn't cite Hody as being the best example of showing off Luffy's growth for several reasons, the main two being that Hody had gotten himself a huge power boost that let him withstand most of Luffy's attacks, and second, they fought in an environment that was disadvantageous for DF users. And as for the pirate army, those guys were just fodder who relied on drugs, anyway (as evidenced by the 50,000 pirates who got knocked out by Luffy's CoC blast). Sure, the officers may have been a bit stronger, but they went down quickly in the end, as well. Simply put, their opponents were just a ragtag group of racist fish-pirates who had no real experience fighting in the outside world. I think we'll get a better gauge of the Straw-Hats' growth when we see them take on a more experienced crew of New World pirates.....
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You can make the opponents has small has you want or point to Luffy’s failures but his improvement over the last two years can not be ignored. The point of the fight was to show how strong the Straw Hats have become. Hody was the guy lucky enough to be the punching bag. If it was not Hody then it would be someone else. If Luffy could destroy the Noah’s arch by himself just think how easily the Straw Hats could have destroyed Fisherman Island.

The Ranks of those that can fight with the Straw Hats are getting Smaller
Two years ago in Water 7 Captains and commanders were the only ones to out in the front lines when trying to fight the Straw hats. Sentomaru and two P-X Robots were able to put Luffy and his crew in there place two years ago. Now Sentomaru can’t even catch three Straw Hats and two P-X have been trashed. I personally think Vice Admirals, Shichibukai, and above will be the only ones to be able to engage with the Straw Hats now. Has for the Pirates I believe Big Mamma and her primary fighters are the only one who can take Luffy’s crew. There is not much cannon fodder separating the Admiral or the Captain from a fight with Luffy anymore. For the Captain or the Top Brass to send anything lower would be a waste of resource. I personally think Big Mamma with her top fighter will probably have to go if they want to deal with the Straw hats.

Survival is the minimal requirement for the New World.
The two years of training was not just about survival. It was about not repeating Sabaody Archipelago event (Chapter 591 Page 11 Fox Manga). I agree with the first three sentences in the first paragraph that Slayerx posted on Link #70. To me what would be the point of the training over the two years if they are just going to get their ass handed to them. The outcomes between the Straw hats and the higher ups won’t be a be the same anymore. If it does then Oda should just have skipped the two Years of training and just let the Straw hats go the New World with out it. Because Oda would be wasting his time and the readers time. The point of the training was the close the gap.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2011-12-29 at 16:17.
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Old 2011-12-29, 16:35   Link #91
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I'm not sure if I like the Bee-Zoan theory floating around, though the thing is, that those "walls" in Big Moms room look a lot like wax, which could fit with this Bee theme. (Or Mr. 3 joined her crew in the meantime)
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Old 2011-12-29, 17:02   Link #92
marvelB
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Survival is the minimal requirement for the New World.

Really, this part of your post says all that needs to be said, and was pretty much of my chief point throughout all these arguments. Luffy and co. just needed to be strong enough so that some fodder enemies at the level of those Kumabots would be no trouble for them. Again, it's not about being at the level to take on world-class opponents from the get-go. And if by chance they DO encounter opponents who are too tough for them to handle in the NW, then they'd at least be strong enough to make an escape (which would be completely different from the Sabaody scenario, where they would've been slaughtered if the actual Kuma didn't help them out).


That isn't to say that they won't eventually have to take down those world-class enemies, though. But as I've been saying so many times now, it would be better if they at least gained a little experience in the NW first before facing someone on the level of someone like Big Mama.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I'm not sure if I like the Bee-Zoan theory floating around, though the thing is, that those "walls" in Big Moms room look a lot like wax, which could fit with this Bee theme. (Or Mr. 3 joined her crew in the meantime)

Considering that her crew's chilling out in a candy-themed island, I'm pretty sure those walls are made out of cake icing, not wax.....
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Old 2011-12-29, 19:11   Link #93
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She could have some sort of Frog/Toad Zoan. There is an old Japanese folktale that goes something like a wise frog who lived in Osaka was approached by the Emperor of Japan to ask who his daughter should accepted in marriage, or who he should give her to. The Frog says that he will tell him if he gives him all the sweets in the world. Blah blah. I don't really remember the entire story it's been a long time. But it is pretty popular. Also some frogs produce acid, they are also noted for the cannibalistic behavior.
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Old 2011-12-29, 20:07   Link #94
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Response to MavelB
Luffy just declared war against Big Mamma, told her he would make Fisherman Island his turf, and he would be the next Pirate King. Do you think the Straw hat Crew are about the minimal? You saying the minimal is directly opposite of who the Straw Hats are has a character. Why should they have to be pushed around by the top? Its has been that way for 597 chapters. To be just strong enough to survive a fight is not enough to be Pirate King and its not enough for the way the story has been written. The way Oda has written this the fight between the top fighters and Straw Hats will be soon. There is not enough fodder between Luffy and the Top fighters anymore. There are way to many power players in the New World to not bump into one. I won’t be surprised if the story patterns change. On top of that Luffy’s chat with Big Mamma only makes the fight between him and the top fighters closer. Pirate King requires the best and the strongest. Having the minimal is not going to cut it for the Straw Hats in a world were everyone wants the title.
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Old 2011-12-29, 20:09   Link #95
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She could have some sort of Frog/Toad Zoan. There is an old Japanese folktale that goes something like a wise frog who lived in Osaka was approached by the Emperor of Japan to ask who his daughter should accepted in marriage, or who he should give her to. The Frog says that he will tell him if he gives him all the sweets in the world. Blah blah. I don't really remember the entire story it's been a long time. But it is pretty popular. Also some frogs produce acid, they are also noted for the cannibalistic behavior.
I could go with that. Not sure how it would make her uber powerful (I get you don't need a hax fruit, but a frog?) but I can roll with it. Plus, Oda likes to use his japanese legends.
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Old 2011-12-30, 03:59   Link #96
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Someone brought up an interesting point.

We don't actually know if those subordinates she ate were human.
It could be animated snacks, sorta like Moria and his zombies.

Sentient food? Who turned on the FLDSMDFR!

Oh, and when these chapters get animated, that three-eye girl needs to be voiced by Megumi Hayashibara.
For obvious reasons.
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Old 2011-12-30, 10:34   Link #97
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Frog zoan? That might work, I guess. Though I think most people are familiar with those poison dart frogs (or the ones that make people high when they're licked) than whatever existing amphibian there is that can produce corrosive acids.....

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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Someone brought up an interesting point.

We don't actually know if those subordinates she ate were human.
It could be animated snacks, sorta like Moria and his zombies.

Sentient food? Who turned on the FLDSMDFR!

D'aaaaw, c'mon Aohige! Don't spoil the fun for those of us who actually believe that Oda's being less lenient with character deaths now! The last thing we need is for him to cop out with anthropomorphic candy!
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Old 2011-12-30, 12:12   Link #98
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wow blue san those were some observations you got there! and you got all that from one chapter? welcome aboard!

my impression of big mam is that she's similar to a mafia boss, as noted by marvelB. she's spoiled, ruthless, selfish and tyrannical. she's nothing like shanks or whitebeard. she deals with her territories like mafia bosses does with theirs. she still reminds me of jabba the hut from star wars though.
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Old 2011-12-30, 14:15   Link #99
White Silver King
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Just had an idea. What if she's not an animal zoan but a kind of rare plant zoan? Her Jolly Roger has a plant-looking thing on it, maybe she's something like a Venus Fly Trap that eats live beings and uses it's "stomach" acids to digest it's prey. It would likely give her multi-range abilities as well through the manipulation of vines/roots which is common for plant users in fiction - a necessity for someone like her whose fighting style most likely revolves around being stationary. It'd be a rare ability suitable for a Yonkou.
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Old 2011-12-30, 16:46   Link #100
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There is a type of Salamander I think it's called the Jefferson Salamander? Not sure. Anyways, it actually ejects its stomach acid periodically and the acid is potent enough to melt razor blades, kinda like our own stomach acid. There are certain frogs that have the same characteristics I just have to find their names.
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